WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED?

[2ndpillar]

So someone who does not know the law can fulfill the law by loving his neighbour and a Christian can do the same also and should if their righteousness is to be greater than the Pharisees.

Do you say that you do not know the Commandments? If you know them, what is your excuse? If you are saying, well the king of Rome, Constantine declared the day of rest to be the day of his sun god, Sol Invictus, Sunday, well I say, is Constantine your king now? Constantine was the establisher of the dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church, a daughter of Babel, a church of confusion (Cognitive dissonance).

 

[2ndpillar]

The principles of humanism - skepticism and reason applied to evidence and to compassion - are timeless, and never need to be updated. There are no covenants, and there are no laws.

The principles of humanism leads to cutting off of parts of children, letting people steal up to $1000 in merchandise without prosecution, allowing the trading of humans through our southern borders, letting convicted felons out of prison, providing needles to addicts, and confiscating of their neighbor's goods to give to those they think are more worthy based on color of skin, and not being able to come up with less than 160 different genders. I think your "humanism" (Progressive movement) has a lot to be desired.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

The principles of humanism leads to cutting off of parts of children, letting people steal up to $1000 in merchandise without prosecution, allowing the trading of humans through our southern borders, letting convicted felons out of prison, providing needles to addicts, and confiscating of their neighbor's goods to give to those they think are more worthy based on color of skin, and not being able to come up with less than 160 different genders. I think your "humanism" (Progressive movement) has a lot to be desired.

Maybe you should learn what humanism is from a source that isn't threatened by atheism. It's very different from the kinds of worldviews that teach the kind of thing you imbibe uncritically. You should be ashamed to have posted that. Are you a Christian? I can't tell anymore with this new format, but who else posts like you did?

 

[2ndpillar]

Maybe you should learn what humanism is from a source that isn't threatened by atheism. It's very different from the kinds of worldviews that teach the kind of thing you imbibe uncritically. You should be ashamed to have posted that. Are you a Christian? I can't tell anymore with this new format, but who else posts like you did?

This is a forum. That means you can come up with any definition of your particular type of "humanism" that tickles your fancy. It may fall on its face, but you are free to be more specific as to your viewpoint as to what your determined humanism is. Please be specific.

 

[Windwalker]

The principles of humanism leads to cutting off of parts of children, letting people steal up to $1000 in merchandise without prosecution

What is this garbage you keep spewing? Do you have a credible source that indicates anyone is doing any of this?

letting convicted felons out of prison

Again, your source please? Or are you suggesting that convicted felons should never be released, even after they have served their sentences?

providing needles to addicts

That's actually a good thing, because it prevents the spread of disease. Of course, I'm sure you'd be happy to just have them all die, wouldn't you?

confiscating of their neighbor's goods to give to those they think are more worthy based on color of skin

Again, what is your source for this garbage? Spewing it, and supporting are very different animals. You just make this crap up because it feels good to hate others, doesn't it?

I think your "humanism" (Progressive movement) has a lot to be desired.

Humanism has nothing to do with progressives. You can have conservative humanists too.

BTW, do you identify yourself as a Christian, or what are you? Considering you espouse the OT over the NT and call Paul a "false prophet", that does tend to tell everyone you're operating outside of Christianity. I'm just curious what you call yourself? What group, or cult do you align your views with?

 

[2ndpillar]

What is this garbage you keep spewing? Do you have a credible source that indicates anyone is doing any of this?

The prime example would be in the democratic, Progressive California, and with the general Progressive, democratic support of Antifa, a faucist domestic terrorist organization, in which the democratic vice president bailed many of them out of jail where no bond had not yet been put in
place.

Again, your source please? Or are you suggesting that convicted felons should never be released, even after they have served their sentences?

Progressive, democratic, New York would be a prime example of where felons were released in mass, and legislature put in place for no bond required. They were released before their sentences were completed.

That's actually a good thing, because it prevents the spread of disease. Of course, I'm sure you'd be happy to just have them all die, wouldn't you?

Well, shooting up drugs is a quick way to die, whether with clean or dirty needle. But then the liberals seem to need a boost or snort to provide a reason for their getting out of bed in the morning. Their introductory drug seems to be Mary Jane.

Humanism has nothing to do with progressives. You can have conservative humanists too.

Progressive, democratic, liberal, would be in the definition of what a humanist is. Now are there swamp creatures among the so-called conservatives, well of course. But their tenure is precarious, and they must rely on liberal support, as in the case of the state of Maine, with the platform of killing unborn babies, which would of course be done in the name of "love" of humankind and health.

 

[Oeste]

I think you missed the point. None of the Israelite's were around at creation and I agree. That does not mean that God did not make the Sabbath for mankind as Jesus tells us that God made the Sabbath for mankind in Mark 2:27. Lets take your argument further, there was no man created at creation, yet we have a creation narrative before mankind was even created. Does that mean that the creation narrative is not true? The point here is that your argument that none of the Israelite's were around is not relevant.

I believe it is you who misses the point.

I am addressing your theory regarding the 4th commandment. This commandment states the Jews are to toil 6 days and rest for one, but all that extra stuff you tack on the command, like backdating it to creation and celebrating Sabbath on a Saturday, and prohibiting Sunday as a Sabbath is simply not there.

So it is a theory because it's not scriptural. It's based on your reasoning rather than the Word of God. At the time of man's creation we were at rest with God, man's spirit was not in toil, and we did not have to labor 6 days to get one day of rest. We already were at rest in God, so of course the 4th commandment did not apply to that time.

God is simply asking the Jews, at Exodus 20, to remember what He had told them 3 weeks earlier at Exodus 16.

At Exodus 16 we find the Israelites gathering the bread God sent from heaven. God is sending this to them because of their grumbling, but He is also testing them to see if they will follow instructions. This is all new to them and it's pretty obvious they have no idea why they were to gather twice as much on the sixth day. Moses has to explain to them that God commands the next day was a Sabbath they were to give to the Lord.

That's the "Remember" part of the 4th Commandment. He commanded Israel to gather and then rest on the 7th day. They failed doing this the first time and so had to be reminded.


So Yes, God rested on the 7th day and that day was consecrated and made holy. What it doesn't mean is that the mankind was commanded to observe it since creation. That doesn't come until Exodus, and it's only required of the Jews. The whole idea of the Sabbath was to point the Jews back to God. So it was no different in this regard than any of the other commandments. Your theory it was to point all mankind back to God's creation is simply not supported by scriptural evidence.

God's temple is holy, but that doesn't point us to the temple, it simply a means to lead us to God. Likewise the creative Day is holy, but that doesn't point us to Saturday, it points us to God. Like the temple, it's a gift.

Jesus said "The Sabbath was made for man..." (God's rest was made for us), "... and not man for the Sabbath" (and not to force man to take a rest).

Remember, The Pharisees attempted to charge Jesus with not keeping the Sabbath, attacking him when he healed on the Sabbath, much like you have attempted to attack us here, when we pray on Sunday.

Once you realize the Sabbath points back to Jesus, and not to a creative Day, and once you realize the Resurrection Day also points to Jesus, and not some pagan emperor, and once you realize that Resurrection Day does not replace the Sabbath, but is simply the realization of Christ's fulfillment of the Law, the better you will understand why we are fully able to take our Sabbatical rest in him, and why such a rest is superior to the rest offered the Jews in Exodus.

Hello Oeste, I do not feel our discussion will be profitable if we continue to micro-quote me without addressing the full content of my posts as I do for you.

To be honest, I think the full content of your posts have been answered by @Windwalker, @Brian2, @Kenny, @nPeace and numerous others on this board. If there's some question I did not answer, please feel free to repost it.

However, I've been extremely busy and I can't spend as much time as I would like on the forum. It may take a few days for me to respond.

That said, you did ask the question "Who owns the Sabbath?" I did answer this question in the content of my response to you that you did not post here in post # 435 linked, showing from the scriptures in Isaiah 58:31; Leviticus 19:30; Ezekiel 20:12; 20 and Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 that God claim ownership of the Sabbath day.

Yes, you argue God has ownership of the Sabbath but then you turn around and tell us the Sabbath must be held on a Saturday. But you don't stop there. You escalate your assertion and tell us God is incapable of accepting Sabbaths offered on a Sunday. But you don't stop there. You escalate once again and tell us those who celebrate a Sabbath on Sunday are not Christian. But you don't stop there. You escalate and tell us those who take a Sabbath on Sunday are not worshiping God correctly and are in danger of losing their salvation.

But it doesn't stop there. None of your statements are supported. When I peek under the covers, your whole argument is based on the Hebrew calendar rather than God's Word. In other words, the Sabbath isn't really every 7th Day as scripture tells us, but every Saturday, as the Hebrew calendar tells us.

If one is following the Word of God, as you claim, then the 7th Day is not Saturday. It's whatever you consider your 7th Day to be. God does not tell us the 7th Day is Saturday. The Hebrew calendar may tell us that, 3rdAngel may tell us that, 2ndPillar may tell us that, but God's Word tells us otherwise.

As stated previously, the 7th Day is Sunday if you start your day on Monday, or can be any day depending on your start day,

Let's use another example to make this clear. Perhaps then we can wrap up this part of our conversation.

You are in flying out of Jerusalem the morning of Friday, April 19, 2024, hoping to enjoy your Sabbath in Norway on Saturday, April 20th. Unfortunately, in Svalbard, Norway, the sun does not set between April 19th and August 25th. So, using the biblical example of "sunset to sunset", April 19, 2024 is on a Friday, but the sun does not set that evening or the next day. It simply hangs in the sky until Thursday, August 22, 2024.

Based on what you've told us, that a day is "sunset to sunset", there is no Sabbath that Saturday. Your Sabbath doesn't come until Thursday, 4 months later.

So if you flew out of Jerusalem the morning of Friday, April 19th, hoping to enjoy your Sabbath in Norway on Saturday, April 20th, you are simply out of luck. Of course, you can always make a change. You can say "Well, it's evening in Jerusalem", but that would not be compliance with the biblical model, would it? Anyone can clearly see it's just an excuse and not really evening outside. That's like being in Jerusalem on Saturday, then justifying working by saying "Well, it's Sunday in New Zealand".


If I am in Jerusalem, "sunset to sunset" will follow roughly a 24 hour day before a new day begins. But if I am near the Poles, then "sunset to sunset" can be several months, depending on the time of year. Why? Because as we move north, the days get longer, even reaching the point where the sun is resistant to sunset, thus not setting for several months due to our tilt and angle to the sun.

Do you see the problem?

The notion we must use a 7 day, 24 hour, "sunset to sunset" week is fine and dandy, but not commanded by God.

Man's rest at creation was an all day, every day affair while we were in the garden. It was not just one day out of every seven. When Adam sinned, mankind was no longer reconciled to God. Our gift of rest was taken away, but was partially reinstituted after the Exodus, but only to the Jews. It was gift if they would follow His ways. Even then, they failed, and they would not enter the rest God offered. That would have to wait until Christ. He is the one that offers true rest, the same rest we had in him before the fall, and to which we will be fully restored when he comes for us again.

 

[Oeste]

You did not post this in your response here. You were trying to argue that what I was saying was that the day owns the Sabbath (post #434). That was not what I was saying at all and does not make sense.

I am saying that is the net result of your argument.

You say Christ is Lord of the Sabbath, but then you say the Sabbath must be celebrated on a Saturday. If the Sabbath belongs to the Lord, then we can give any day to the Lord because it is HIS Sabbath day. It's not Constantine's Day, it's not "Sol Invictus", it's not even Resurrection Day, it's a HOLY day given to the Lord.

Holy simply means to "set apart". This can occur on Saturday, Sunday, or any day.

You claim Saturday is Holy, because it is the Sabbath. Whereas we know that any day is Holy that is given to the Lord.

However, if it MUST be SATURDAY, then it is the SATURDAY that "owns" the Sabbath because the Lord is not free to change it. Thus the Day is bound to Saturday and not the Lord as you claim.

When we look to find your scriptural basis, we find none. Instead we are told "the Lord Day's" appears in the Old Testament, when virtually every knowledgeable poster is well aware that the "Lord's Day" appears only once in scripture, and that is at Revelation1:10. Worse, we are told that the Lord's Day is the Sabbath Day which is simply not true. The Lord's Day has always been celebrated by the historic church as Resurrection Day, and yes, we are free to take Resurrection Day, to set it apart, and give that day to the Lord. It is an offering to God, and there is nothing in scripture that precludes this. The idea that our offering is condemnable in your eyes does not make it condemnable in His.

Also, claiming this 7th day must be Saturday is stuffing more words into the mouth of God than He has spoken. I realize this is your belief 3rdAngel, but there is nothing that says Sabbath must be Saturday anymore than there is anything that says Resurrection Day must be Sunday. Sabbath is on the 7th Day of the week, and Resurrection Day is on the 1st. How the reader measures a week is up to the reader, and how God measures time is up to God.

Additionally, the 7th Day was to be observed by the Jews, not the Gentiles!

"Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there by his great power and strength. So the LORD your God has commanded you to rest on the Sabbath day." (Deuteronomy 5;15)

When did the Lord lead the Gentiles out of Egypt???

Saturday on a 7 day calendar, sunset to sunset, may be fine for the Jews, but sunset to sunset is going to mean something quite different to the gentiles as I just showed above. Let's not forget that the Egyptians and Romans had 10 day calendars at the time, making their supposed, mandatory Sabbath a revolving holiday, and some cultures had 8.

You not only claim the LORD's DAY can't be Sunday, it MUST be Saturday, which is not scriptural. The Lord only required the Jews to give their 7th day over to rest.

You go further than this. You say if it's SUNDAY it can't be Christian, but PAGAN. Again, you acknowledge Christ is Lord of the Sabbath, but to you the DAY of celebration, and giving your day to the Lord that is more important. This tells the reader, once again, the Day has more mastery over the Sabbath than the Lord!

Lastly, all of this is wrapped into a convoluted argument that seeks to elevate a Saturday Sabbath as a defining measure of Christian salvation, and a universal requirement, thus yoking mankind to Saturdays rather than Christ.

So yes, I agree it would not make sense, but it certainly appears to be what you are saying.

 

[Brian2]

Exactly. And not just shrinking that to the 10 commandments, but to the 4th one above the rest. Do you hear these 7th day groups beat others over the head about having a painting of Jesus in the church somewhere? Yet, cant they quibble over what "graven images" means in the 2nd commandment?

No, it's really not about the 4th commandment itself, Rather it is because they found that they can use that to distinguish themselves from others in order to advertise themselves as the true Christians in the marketplace of religions. A very typical thing that was going on in America around the turn of the 20th century with all these little "restored gospel" churches popping up everywhere: JWs, Pentecostals; Christian Science; 7th Day Adventists; Mormons; and a host of others. It's all coming from the same place, and all seeking to set themselves apart from the rest with some special gimmick or other.

What's even more ironic is why is it that they only seize upon the 1st set of 10 commandments that Moses himself destroyed, and not the 2nd "restored" set of 10 commandments which were written in stone by God, and were the ones carried in the ark of the covenant? I would think those would be the more important ones, since they were kept in the temple itself, right?

Why aren't they beating others over the head for these restored 10 commandments found in Exodus 34? Why is there nothing but stone silence from them over these?

1. Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land.​

2. Do not make any idols.​

3. Celebrate the Festival of Unleavened Bread.​

4. The first offspring of every womb belongs to me.​

5. No one is to appear before me empty-handed.​

6. Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest.​

7. Celebrate the Festival of Weeks with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, and the Festival of Ingathering at the turn of the year.​

8. Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast, and do not let any of the sacrifice from the Passover Festival remain until morning.​

9. Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the Lord your God.​

10. Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.​

Clearly, there is something gravely inconsistent in their argument here. I believe I know the reason why. It's a gimmick, an advertising hook to distinguish themselves from the other Christian groups in the marketplace of religion to get customers. "Our deity can help your wife be more fertile", "The true Christians in the early church spoke in tongues!"; "Our deity tells us the right day of the week to worship on in order to be saved!", and so forth.

It's all the same thing. They are simply hawking their religious wares to sell their versions of salvation for customers in a consumerist culture. "If I join the right church, I'll be saved". Buying salvation, or "earning it" by joining the right group, doing the right rituals, saying the right words, believing the right beliefs, etc. It's all a salvation of works. Shortcuts to to God, climbing in another way.


This is something I note in their word choices. To "love God", is translated in the minds of the legalists to mean, love is the act of strict obedience. Love is a "duty". It is not an attitude of compassion. It is not an unconditional position of of grace and forgiveness and welcoming.

They see God as accepting one's claims of loving Him, by proof that He will accept. And those proofs are how well you adhere to the commandments (cherry picked as those are). God accepts them by how well they measure up to obeying the scripture's laws, in the Old Testament in particular.


Exactly correct! You don't need to know the first thing about Moses, the Old Testament, or even about the apostles and the New Testament, to fulfill the law through Love.

For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness...​

The above is something these 7th day above all else groups need to cut out of their Bibles with a razor blade in order to keep their theology consistent. "Obeying the law", has nothing to do with the letter of the law. It has to do with attitudes and actions towards others.

How could the Gentiles "do by nature the things required by the law", if they aren't observing Saturday worship, according to these 7th days preachers? They couldn't. Yet, Paul says they are. "They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts," without observing Saturday worship. Period.

It is a tough thing to try to debunk however because some scriptures suggest at least that the commandments should be kept, even if the commandments we should keep are not specifically told. The assumption is that it means the 10 commandments and that the commandments of God mean the 10 commandments.

 

[Brian2]

This message was for both Judah and Ephraim (dispersed Israel), as well as "others" (Gentiles). (Isaiah 56:8). Israel is "scattered among the nations/Gentiles" and will be "gathered" out (Ezekiel 36:19-24) and will be joined with Judah, the Jews, and settled on the land given to Jacob, under the rule of king David (Ezekiel 37:15-28). At that time those of the "nations"/Gentiles who survive will confess their following the "falsehoods" of their fathers (Jeremiah 16:19), and then agreeing to be servants of Jacob (Isaiah 14:1-2). As for survivors of the "day of LORD", according to Joel 2:31-32, it is with respect to those on Mount Zion (those that keep the Commandments and the sabbath) and in Jerusalem, the Jews. (Isaiah 56:6-8).
New American Standard Bible Isaiah 56:8
The Lord GOD, who gathers the dispersed of Israel, declares, “I will yet gather others to them, to those already gathered.”

OK that is your interpretation and I have not time to refute it.

 

[Brian2]

It would include keeping the "seventh day" as stated in the 4th commandment.

Why? Why do you interpret "the Commandments of God" to mean the 10 Commandments?

 

[Brian2]

Do you say that you do not know the Commandments? If you know them, what is your excuse? If you are saying, well the king of Rome, Constantine declared the day of rest to be the day of his sun god, Sol Invictus, Sunday, well I say, is Constantine your king now? Constantine was the establisher of the dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church, a daughter of Babel, a church of confusion (Cognitive dissonance).

I don't mention Constantine or the Popes and I don't rely on interpretations of prophecy concerning the Roman Catholic Church.
But you seem to be assuming that the Sabbath is to be kept by Christians and not basing it on what the Bible tells us.

 

[3rdAngel]

I believe it is you who misses the point.

No you did indeed miss the point. As posted in the post you are quoting from but do not address and talk about here. None of the Israelite's were around at creation, so Mark 2:27 with Jesus saying that God made the Sabbath for mankind only supports what has already been shared with you that you seem to be unwilling to talk about. Once again this is scripture which is Gods Words not my words that you do not believe. Taking your argument further in your earlier post that no one was there at creation, does not mean the creation narrative is not true. The point being made earlier that you once again did not address was that we have a creation narrative given by God to Moses because God was the creator and created all things and told Moses what happened and it is God that tells us what happened in the creation week in Genesis 1:1-31 and Genesis 2:1-3. So no I reject your claim here that Gods 4th commandment does not point back to Genesis 2:1-3 because it clearly does. Of course though if you do not believe what the scripture says you will not see the points being make because you choose not to.

I am addressing your theory regarding the 4th commandment. This commandment states the Jews are to toil 6 days and rest for one, but all that extra stuff you tack on the command, like backdating it to creation and celebrating Sabbath on a Saturday, and prohibiting Sunday as a Sabbath is simply not there. So it is a theory because it's not scriptural. It's based on your reasoning rather than the Word of God. At the time of man's creation we were at rest with God, man's spirit was not in toil, and we did not have to labor 6 days to get one day of rest. We already were at rest in God, so of course the 4th commandment did not apply to that time. God is simply asking the Jews, at Exodus 20, to remember what He had told them 3 weeks earlier at Exodus 16. At Exodus 16 we find the Israelites gathering the bread God sent from heaven. God is sending this to them because of their grumbling, but He is also testing them to see if they will follow instructions. This is all new to them and it's pretty obvious they have no idea why they were to gather twice as much on the sixth day. Moses has to explain to them that God commands the next day was a Sabbath they were to give to the Lord. That's the "Remember" part of the 4th Commandment. He commanded Israel to gather and then rest on the 7th day. They failed doing this the first time and so had to be reminded. So Yes, God rested on the 7th day and that day was consecrated and made holy. What it doesn't mean is that the mankind was commanded to observe it since creation. That doesn't come until Exodus, and it's only required of the Jews. The whole idea of the Sabbath was to point the Jews back to God. So it was no different in this regard than any of the other commandments. Your theory it was to point all mankind back to God's creation is simply not supported by scriptural evidence. God's temple is holy, but that doesn't point us to the temple, it simply a means to lead us to God. Likewise the creative Day is holy, but that doesn't point us to Saturday, it points us to God. Like the temple, it's a gift. Jesus said "The Sabbath was made for man..." (God's rest was made for us), "... and not man for the Sabbath" (and not to force man to take a rest). Remember, The Pharisees attempted to charge Jesus with not keeping the Sabbath, attacking him when he healed on the Sabbath, much like you have attempted to attack us here, when we pray on Sunday. Once you realize the Sabbath points back to Jesus, and not to a creative Day, and once you realize the Resurrection Day also points to Jesus, and not some pagan emperor, and once you realize that Resurrection Day does not replace the Sabbath, but is simply the realization of Christ's fulfillment of the Law, the better you will understand why we are fully able to take our Sabbatical rest in him, and why such a rest is superior to the rest offered the Jews in Exodus.

That is not true at all. Sadly for you I have not posted theories I have have only posted scripture that is in disagreement with you. Posting theories to justify sin is what you are doing. I have only posted scriptures and you do not believe them which is why you do not address the posts and the scriptures shared with you that are in disagreement with you and why you have been unable to address the OP and provide scripture that says that Gods 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. I keep asking for scripture and no scripture in provided because Sunday worship is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. Jesus says in His own words that if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God we are now worshiping God and our hearts are far from Him. It's time to unlearn the lies we have all bee taught from Sunday school dear friend. Its time to come out from following man-made teachings and traditions that have led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God.

Sin is defined as the transgression of Gods law (1 John 3:4) and not believing and following what Gods Word says in Romans 14:23; Matthew 7:21-23. The testing question coming to each one of us will be who do we believe and follow; God or man? In times of ignorance God winks at when we do not know any better (James 4:17; Acts 17:30-31) but when God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we choose to reject Gods Word in order to continue in our sins there remains no more sacrifice for our sins but a fearful looking forward to of judgement to come which will devour the adversaries *Hebrews 10:26-31. Where does it say in the scriptures that mankind (Gods people) did not have to observe the Sabbath at creation? Please provide scripture or all your providing is your theory to justify sin. Even if your theory is true it does not mean that we are to break Gods 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath when God tells us in the 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken to forget and break His 4th commandment now does it? But to be honest and frank with you it is pretty naive to try and argue Gods people before the 10 commandments were give did not know and practice God's law when it is written in Genesis 26:5 "Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws." Therefore lets not make excuses for sin.

According to the scriptures all those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter into God's kingdom according to the scriptures (Matthew 7:21-23) and according to John need to be born again because they do not know God (see 1 John 3:4-10 compare 1 John 2:3-4). According to the scriptures the Sabbath points back to creation and God as the creator of heaven and earth (Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3) and God commands us to remember it as a holy day of rest. Once again there is not a single scripture in all the bible that says Gods 4th commandments has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. Are you willing to gamble your salvation and continue in sin (1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23) in order to follow the teachings and traditions of men that have led many away from God and His Word to break Gods 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath? Sorry dear friend but your theories do not agree with scripture.

more to come..

 

[3rdAngel]

To be honest, I think the full content of your posts have been answered by @Windwalker, @Brian2, @Kenny, @nPeace[/USER] and numerous others on this board. If there's some question I did not answer, please feel free to repost it.

Well that is not true. No one has answered the OP question including you. Here let me ask it again in case you missed it. Where is the scripture that says Gods 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest? No one has answered the OP because there is no scripture. Lets be honest in our discussion. Your not being truthful.

However, I've been extremely busy and I can't spend as much time as I would like on the forum. It may take a few days for me to respond. Yes, you argue God has ownership of the Sabbath but then you turn around and tell us the Sabbath must be held on a Saturday. But you don't stop there. You escalate your assertion and tell us God is incapable of accepting Sabbaths offered on a Sunday. But you don't stop there. You escalate once again and tell us those who celebrate a Sabbath on Sunday are not Christian. But you don't stop there. You escalate and tell us those who take a Sabbath on Sunday are not worshiping God correctly and are in danger of losing their salvation.

The OP is only asking for one scripture that show Gods 4th commandment is no longer a part of Gods 10 commandments and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. You cant provide any scripture because there is none. You can search the bible from Genesis to Revelation there is not a single scripture that says Gods 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest because there is no scripture. Sunday worship as posted all throughout this OP is a man-made teaching and traditions that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus given in Matthew 15:2-9 when he says those who do these things are not worshiping God and their hearts are far from Him. According to the scriptures and Gods Word the Sabbath is not and never has been the first day of the week. In the Words of God Exodus 20:10 "BUT THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD" According to the scriptures only Gods Word is true and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditions of men that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God and sin (see Romans 3:4; Acts 5:29; 32; 1 John 3:4; 1 John 2:3-4).

But it doesn't stop there. None of your statements are supported. When I peek under the covers, your whole argument is based on the Hebrew calendar rather than God's Word. In other words, the Sabbath isn't really every 7th Day as scripture tells us, but every Saturday, as the Hebrew calendar tells us.If one is following the Word of God, as you claim, then the 7th Day is not Saturday. It's whatever you consider your 7th Day to be. God does not tell us the 7th Day is Saturday. The Hebrew calendar may tell us that, 3rdAngel may tell us that, 2ndPillar may tell us that, but God's Word tells us otherwise. As stated previously, the 7th Day is Sunday if you start your day on Monday, or can be any day depending on your start day,

Well that claim and statement is not honest and is not truthful. I have only provided scripture for my statements and the Hebrew Calendar is based on the scriptures. Now lets evaluate your false claims here and see what Gods Word says. According to the scriptures and every Sunday keeper will agree that according to the scriptures Jesus rose again on the first day of the week that the Christian world calls Sunday today. The first day of the week has never been the Sabbath day. The Sabbath day as defined by God alone in the 4th commandment of the 10 commandments found in Exodus 20:10 as shown earlier says "BUT THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD". So once again it is you theories here that have been exposed by scripture when peeking under your cover. The seventh day is the day before Sunday and the resurrection of Jesus and in bible time starts from sunset and finishes sunset (Genesis 1:1-5). Therefore our time Gods seventh day Sabbath of Gods 4th commandment is Friday sunset to Saturday sunset. As posted earlier, only Gods Word is true and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditions of men that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God and sin (see Romans 3:4; Acts 5:29; 32; 1 John 3:4; 1 John 2:3-4) and your teachings have been exposed with the scriptures you do not believe.

Let's use another example to make this clear. Perhaps then we can wrap up this part of our conversation. You are in flying out of Jerusalem the morning of Friday, April 19, 2024, hoping to enjoy your Sabbath in Norway on Saturday, April 20th. Unfortunately, in Svalbard, Norway, the sun does not set between April 19th and August 25th. So, using the biblical example of "sunset to sunset", April 19, 2024 is on a Friday, but the sun does not set that evening or the next day. It simply hangs in the sky until Thursday, August 22, 2024. Based on what you've told us, that a day is "sunset to sunset", there is no Sabbath that Saturday. Your Sabbath doesn't come until Thursday, 4 months later. So if you flew out of Jerusalem the morning of Friday, April 19th, hoping to enjoy your Sabbath in Norway on Saturday, April 20th, you are simply out of luck. Of course, you can always make a change. You can say "Well, it's evening in Jerusalem", but that would not be compliance with the biblical model, would it? Anyone can clearly see it's just an excuse and not really evening outside. That's like being in Jerusalem on Saturday, then justifying working by saying "Well, it's Sunday in New Zealand". If I am in Jerusalem, "sunset to sunset" will follow roughly a 24 hour day before a new day begins. But if I am near the Poles, then "sunset to sunset" can be several months, depending on the time of year. Why? Because as we move north, the days get longer, even reaching the point where the sun is resistant to sunset, thus not setting for several months due to our tilt and angle to the sun. Do you see the problem?The notion we must use a 7 day, 24 hour, "sunset to sunset" week is fine and dandy, but not commanded by God. Man's rest at creation was an all day, every day affair while we were in the garden. It was not just one day out of every seven. When Adam sinned, mankind was no longer reconciled to God. Our gift of rest was taken away, but was partially reinstituted after the Exodus, but only to the Jews. It was gift if they would follow His ways. Even then, they failed, and they would not enter the rest God offered. That would have to wait until Christ. He is the one that offers true rest, the same rest we had in him before the fall, and to which we will be fully restored when he comes for us again.

No it makes no difference and there is no problem. There is only a problem for those who seek to justify their sins and continue breaking God's commandments once God gives them a knowledge of the truth of His Word they we seek to continue to justify and continue practicing known unrepentant sin according to the scriptures (Hebrews 10:26-31). The Sabbath is on a seven day continuous in every country around the world and can be kept in every country around the world and unlike your claims here according to the scriptures is indeed commanded by God as one of Gods 10 commandments in Exodus 20:8-11 that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken. The question though we all must consider is who do we believe and follow; God or man? Our salvation depends on our choices.

Take Care

 

[Oeste]

Lets look at the scriptures...

Exodus 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day) [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: [10], But THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD THY GOD: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY: WHEREFORE THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, AND MADE IT HOLY.

Let me ask you these questions...

Okay, but I get to ask some back.

Q1 When did God bless the seventh day? - Genesis 2:1-3

When He rested (Gen 2:3)

3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Your question:

Q1: When did God command mankind to observe the Sabbath Day?

Q2 When did God make holy the seventh day? - Genesis 2:1-3

When he rested.

Same verse:
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Your question:

Q2: Where in Genesis do we find the command to observe the Sabbath?

Note the same wording used in Exodus 20:8-11 specifically Exodus 20:11 tell us from the scriptures the reason we are to remember the Sabbath day is because of what God said and did in Genesis 2:1-3. This is where God blessed the seventh day of the week and made the seventh day of the week a holy day of rest for all mankind (Mark 2:27).

Not quite.

You have not shown us the commandment in Genesis.

Exodus 20 contains a commandment to the Israelites. They are to remember and observe the Sabbath just as God told them 3 weeks earlier at Exodus 16.

There is no similar command issued to all mankind in Genesis, and Exodus and Genesis are separated by centuries.

According to the scriptures Exodus 16 Gods people were breaking the Sabbath and not believing and following Gods Word. Here your reading into the scriptures what is not written in the scriptures. To make the assumption that Gods people had never heard of the Sabbath before. That is not written in the scriptures and something you are trying to argue here that is not said in the scriptures.

No, there is no assumption here. There is no command for Israel to keep a 7th day Sabbath prior to Exodus 16:

4 Then the Lord said to Moses, “I will rain down bread from heaven for you. The people are to go out each day and gather enough for that day. In this way I will test them and see whether they will follow my instructions. 5 On the sixth day they are to prepare what they bring in, and that is to be twice as much as they gather on the other days.”​

Had the Jews been following a 7th Day Sabbath previously, God would not have needed to instruct them to gather twice as much on the 6th day. They would have already known they needed to gather twice as much:

29Bear in mind that the Lord has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Everyone is to stay where they are on the seventh day; no one is to go out.” 30 So the people rested on the seventh day. (Genesis 16)​

The context is clear here 3rdAngel. They had no idea. God had to explain the entire concept of a 7th-day Sabbath.

Yet I know Gods Word and it tells me in Genesis 26:5 "That Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws." Now if Abraham obeyed God's voice, kept Gods commandments, statutes and laws, why would you think that His descendants did not know them? It is clear to me that the scriptures disagree with you on this point.

NO 3rdAngel. It is pretty clear that the scriptures disagree with you.

Abraham could not possibly have obeyed the 4th commandment as the 10 commandments were not given to Abraham. They were given to MOSES.

Jesus says if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word we are not worshiping God. This then begs the question who do we believe and follow; God or man? This is the testing questions coming to everyone of us. Jesus says that the hour is coming and now is that the true worshipers will worship the father in Spirit and in truth.

We believe the scriptures, and scripture does not tell us that the 4th commandment was given to Israel prior to Exodus 16. It's really that simple. It's simply not possible to follow a 7th day Sabbath if you simply don't know you are suppose to follow it.

Conclusion: As stated in the OP already, there is not a single scripture in all of the bible that says Gods 4th commandment is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection.

My goodness! Who claimed the 4th commandment was abolished?

That is a strawman argument @3rdAngel.

@Kenny has not claimed it was abolished. @Wildswanderer has not claimed it was abolished. @Brian2 has not claimed it was abolished,@pearl has not claimed this and I am not aware of any traditional, historic church that claims it was abolished. Not even @nPeace has claimed it was abolished, and I believe every one of them, at one point or another, has told you the same on this thread.

Also, why do you think we have to be commanded to praise the Lord?? I find that a bit odd. However I am willing to concede the point if you can just show us where God does not like to be worshiped on Sunday. Also, if He has any other days where worship is prohibited, please place them here.

 

[Windwalker]

It is a tough thing to try to debunk however because some scriptures suggest at least that the commandments should be kept, even if the commandments we should keep are not specifically told. The assumption is that it means the 10 commandments and that the commandments of God mean the 10 commandments.

The two different versions of the 10 commandments are actually just essentially summaries of the "book of the covenant" which are the 613 different commandments. So that constitutes "the law". And then there are teachings of the prophets, and so the "law and the prophets" is all of it as a whole. What I strongly feel that Jesus was instructing was that getting hung up on the "letter of the law", misses the "spirit of the law", or the basic intent. It's to get us to look at the attitudes of the heart, the "inside of the cup", as opposed to focusing on the externals. This is what differentiates the "new covenant" from the "old covenant".

So when you have those worrying about did I do the 4th commandment right, or the 36th commandment, or the 421st commandment correctly, they are focusing in the wrong place. It's really not about not mixing two types of cloth that God actually cares about. But to the legalist, they imagine that is what matters.

I have come to realize through this discussion that the entire difference in understanding boils down to the nature of how we understand what love is. Those that are legalists see love as something earned or deserved. You have to obey God, for God to give his love to you and accept you. To those under Grace, they see love as unconditional. Which does not mean lawlessness in the least. It means that one follows the ways of God, because they experience that Love from God through Grace, undeserved, unearned. It is through humility that they are raised, and when raised, they act from a place of love in their hearts. And from that place of love inside that cup, the entire spirit or intent of the law and prophets is fulfilled, namely to Love: God and Others, though the Love that comes from God, to them, and through them, to the world.

This is the dividing line. This is the watershed point, where entire different understandings of the nature of God and ourselves and the world, and our interpretations of scripture part ways. One goes to the west coast, the other to the east coast to different oceans. The legalist hears unconditional love as lawlessness and a lack of discipline, or God sparing the belt. That is how it is presented in discussions, again and again in this thread. That betrays a lack of experience of what it is, and the only thing that can be related to is a parent who doesn't beat their children to get them to obey them and deserve their love which is conditional upon living up to that parents expectations.

It is truly like the Matrix. You cannot be told what unconditional love is. You have to experience it for yourself to know what it is.

I think this cartoon perfectly captures this contrast I am pointing out here:

 

[Windwalker]

The prime example would be in the democratic, Progressive California, and with the general Progressive, democratic support of Antifa, a faucist domestic terrorist organization, in which the democratic vice president bailed many of them out of jail where no bond had not yet been put in
place

There is no democratic support of Antifa. Again, please provide specific sources to support your wild claims of dismembering children, and letting felons out of prison. I want specifics, not just your wild claims out of your wild imagination.

Progressive, democratic, New York would be a prime example of where felons were released in mass, and legislature put in place for no bond required. They were released before their sentences were completed.

Citations please? Sources.

Well, shooting up drugs is a quick way to die, whether with clean or dirty needle. But then the liberals seem to need a boost or snort to provide a reason for their getting out of bed in the morning. Their introductory drug seems to be Mary Jane.

You are highly misinformed and misled in your imaginations. You have no credible support for your wild accusations of others you chose to demonize and hate for hate's sake.

Progressive, democratic, liberal, would be in the definition of what a humanist is.

No it's not. Humanism embraces many different political and social views. That said however, humanists do tend to view others who are not like themselves with respect, which to you would mean "progressives". But that is a good thing. That is actually Christian, which I don't think you understand that about the Bible. Caring for and respecting others who are not like you, as opposed to posts like this of yours which spew nothing but poison to those whom you choose to hate for the sake of hating.

I ask again, do you consider yourself a Christian? I'm truly curious.

 

[3rdAngel]

Oeste said: What's to Remember? For many it comes from a misunderstanding of what the Israelites were suppose to remember. Here, there is claim that this points back to Genesis 2, however none of the Israelites were around at that time. No, what they were to remember was God's command to Israel just 3 weeks earlier: 23 He said to them, “This is what the Lord commanded: ‘Tomorrow is to be a day of sabbath rest, a holy sabbath to the Lord. So bake what you want to bake and boil what you want to boil. Save whatever is left and keep it until morning. So they saved it until morning, as Moses commanded, and it did not stink or get maggots in it. "Eat it today," Moses said, "because today is a Sabbath to the LORD. You will not find any of it on the ground today. Six days you are to gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will not be any." Nevertheless, some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather it, but they found none. Then the LORD said to Moses, "How long will you refuse to keep my commands and my instructions? Bear in mind that the LORD has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Everyone is to stay where he is on the seventh day; no one is to go out." So the people rested on the seventh day." (Exodus 16). Did you notice the underlined above? They Israelites went out on the seventh day to gather food??!

Responded to with...

3rdAngel wrote: I think you missed the point. None of the Israelite's were around at creation and I agree. That does not mean that God did not make the Sabbath for mankind as Jesus tells us that God made the Sabbath for mankind in Mark 2:27. Lets take your argument further, there was no man created at creation, yet we have a creation narrative before mankind was even created. Does that mean that the creation narrative is not true? The point here is that your argument that none of the Israelite's were around is not relevant. We have a creation narrative given by God to Moses because God was the creator and created all things and told Moses what happened and it is God that tells us what happened in the creation week in Genesis 1:1-31 and Genesis 2:1-3. So no I reject your claim here that Gods 4th commandment does not point back to Genesis 2:1-3 because it clearly does.

Lets look at the scriptures...

Exodus 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day) [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: [10], But THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD THY GOD: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY: WHEREFORE THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, AND MADE IT HOLY.

Let me ask you these questions...

Q1 When did God bless the seventh day? - Genesis 2:1-3
Q2 When did God make holy the seventh day? - Genesis 2:1-3

Genesis 2:1-3[1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. [2], And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and HE RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; KEEP SABBATH] on the SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made. [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY: BECAUSE THAT IN IT HE HAD RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] from all his work which God created and made.

Note the same wording used in Exodus 20:8-11 specifically Exodus 20:11 tell us from the scriptures the reason we are to remember the Sabbath day is because of what God said and did in Genesis 2:1-3. This is where God blessed the seventh day of the week and made the seventh day of the week a holy day of rest for all mankind (Mark 2:27).

You responded with...

Okay, but I get to ask some back.

When He rested (Gen 2:3)
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Your question:

Q1: When did God command mankind to observe the Sabbath Day?

When he rested.

Same verse:
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Your question:

Q2: Where in Genesis do we find the command to observe the Sabbath? Not quite. You have not shown us the commandment in Genesis. Exodus 20 contains a commandment to the Israelites. They are to remember and observe the Sabbath just as God told them 3 weeks earlier at Exodus 16. There is no similar command issued to all mankind in Genesis, and Exodus and Genesis are separated by centuries. No, there is no assumption here. There is no command for Israel to keep a 7th day Sabbath prior to Exodus 16: 4 Then the Lord said to Moses, “I will rain down bread from heaven for you. The people are to go out each day and gather enough for that day. In this way I will test them and see whether they will follow my instructions. 5 On the sixth day they are to prepare what they bring in, and that is to be twice as much as they gather on the other days.” Had the Jews been following a 7th Day Sabbath previously, God would not have needed to instruct them to gather twice as much on the 6th day. They would have already known they needed to gather twice as much:

Thank you! You have just made my point and agreed with me and disagreed with what you posted earlier, that Exodus 20:11 is not a reference back to Genesis 2:1-3. I do not think you have been following the conversation or the scriptures shared with you that are in direct disagreement with you. As to your question they are irrelevant as because God has given us today His 4th commandments seventh day Sabbath which is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20) and if we break anyone of Gods 10 commandments today according to Gods new covenant scriptures we stand guilty before God of sin and breaking all of Gods law (see 1 John 3:4 and James 2:10-11). So trying to argue when God gave His 10 commandments to His people is not relevant when we have them today and God calls us to believe and obey them. That said according to the scriptures Jesus says in Mark 2:27 that God made the Sabbath for mankind and we know that God made the Sabbath in Genesis 2:1-3 where He "blessed the seventh day" and made the "seventh day a holy day of rest". So if God blessed the seventh day and made the seventh day a holy day of rest for all mankind what makes you think that Gods people did not know Gods laws before Exodus 16 or Exodus 20? You have only provided a theory for your teaching that teaches lawlessness. According to the scriptures Gods people knew Gods laws before Exodus 16. In Genesis 25:6 we read "Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws." Therefore lets not make excuses for sin because according to the scriptures, sin will keep all those who knowingly practice it out of Gods kingdom.

So in summary and answering your questions,

1. Your questions are not relevant because we are given Gods 10 commandments today and there is no excuse to break them today.
2. If Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for mankind in Mark 2:27 and
3. Gods people were obeying Gods law in Genesis 25:6 well before Exodus 16 and Exodus 20 and
4. Gods 4th commandment in the 10 commandments is pointing back to Genesis 2:1-3 in Exodus 20:11,
5. Gods people before the Exodus knew Gods laws and practiced them (Genesis 26:5)
6. Gods 10 commandments in the old testament and the new are the standard that gives us the knowledge of good (moral right doing when obeyed) and evil (moral wrong doing when disobeyed); sin (moral wrong doing when disobeyed) and righteousness (moral right doing when obeyed) in the new covenant (see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172),

Then the scriptures are more than clear that if we break anyone of Gods 10 commandments including Gods 4th commandment today when God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word (James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31) we stand before God of sin and do not know God and need to be born again (see James 2:10-11; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:4-9) if we want to be free to walk in Gods Spirit (Galatians 5:16).

According to the scriptures the many that are called will not be the few who are Gods chosen and will not enter into the Kingdom of heaven come judgement day (Matthew 22:14 compare Matthew 7:13-23; Hebrews 10:26-27). Therefore lets not make any excuses for sin and gamble with our salvation. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth on that day according to the scriptures (Luke 12:28). Don't gamble with your salvation. Its time to unlearn the lies as have all been taught at Sunday school. God is calling us all out from following man-made teachings and traditions back to worshiping Him in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth (see Matthew 15:3-9 and John 4:23-24).

more to come...

 

[3rdAngel]

No, what they were to remember was God's command to Israel just 3 weeks earlier: 23 He said to them, “This is what the Lord commanded: ‘Tomorrow is to be a day of sabbath rest, a holy sabbath to the Lord. So bake what you want to bake and boil what you want to boil. Save whatever is left and keep it until morning. So they saved it until morning, as Moses commanded, and it did not stink or get maggots in it. "Eat it today," Moses said, "because today is a Sabbath to the LORD. You will not find any of it on the ground today. Six days you are to gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will not be any." Nevertheless, some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather it, but they found none. Then the LORD said to Moses, "How long will you refuse to keep my commands and my instructions? Bear in mind that the LORD has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Everyone is to stay where he is on the seventh day; no one is to go out." So the people rested on the seventh day." (Exodus 16). Did you notice the underlined above? They Israelites went out on the seventh day to gather food??! 29Bear in mind that the Lord has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Everyone is to stay where they are on the seventh day; no one is to go out.” 30 So the people rested on the seventh day. (Genesis 16) The context is clear here 3rdAngel. They had no idea. God had to explain the entire concept of a 7th-day Sabbath.

Your making strawman arguments no one is arguing about in order to justify sin which is defined as breaking Gods law in 1 John 3:4. I agree with you that God had to re-explain His laws to the Israelite's. Why? Because they were made slaves to the Egyptians for over 400 years and many of Gods people lost sight of His laws (Exodus 12:40-41). That does not mean that Gods people did not know and obey Gods laws prior to this time because scripture (not me) says in Genesis 25:6 "Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws." It was because of the many generations of Gods people being in slavery to the Egyptians that they lost sight of God and His laws. That is why God wrote His laws down on two tables of stone with His own finger and told them to obey His laws and breaking His laws were sin (Exodus 31:18; Exodus 20:3-17 compare Exodus 20:8-11). So here you are only supporting what has been shared with you in this OP. Breaking God's law is sin (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4) just like breaking Gods 4th commandment is sin or any other of the 10 commandments, once God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we choose to disobey it (Hebrews 10:26-31). Once again there is not a single scripture in all the bible that says Gods 4th commandments has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. Are you willing to gamble your salvation and continue in sin (1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23) in order to follow the teachings and traditions of men that have led many away from God and His Word to break Gods 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath? Sorry dear friend but your theories do not agree with scripture.

NO 3rdAngel. It is pretty clear that the scriptures disagree with you. Abraham could not possibly have obeyed the 4th commandment as the 10 commandments were not given to Abraham. They were given to MOSES. We believe the scriptures, and scripture does not tell us that the 4th commandment was given to Israel prior to Exodus 16. It's really that simple. It's simply not possible to follow a 7th day Sabbath if you simply don't know you are suppose to follow it.

Lets test your words with Gods Words (the scriptures) and see if they have any truth in them. You say Abraham could not have possible obeyed Gods 10 commandments? Where does it say that in the bible? If sin is the transgression of Gods law how did those before Exodus 20 know what sin was if there was no law? Yet we read this in the scriptures that are in direct disagreement with your words here.

• Genesis 26:5 "Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

Go look up the Hebrew word translated as "laws" it translates as torah also you may want to know that Noah, Abraham and the patriarchs all obeyed the laws of sin atonement with animal sacrifices and sin offering (e.g. see Genesis 22:7-8). How did Abraham know what sin was if he did not know Gods law? Think it through. God not me says that "Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws." God not me says that Abraham was obeying His laws (torah) and Gods Word not mine says that Abraham knew what sin was and offering sin offerings to God to seek Gods forgiveness of sins. As the scriptures teach in Romans 3:20 if there was no law there would be know knowledge of what sin is. It is indeed clear dear friend that Gods Word is in disagreement with your words that are not Gods Word. We should not seek to make excuses for sin. If we do that we will not enter into Gods kingdom *Hebrews 10:26-31.

My goodness! Who claimed the 4th commandment was abolished?

All those who do not keep Gods 4th commandment treat Gods 4th commandment as though it is abolished and think that Sunday worship in honor of the resurrection of Jesus replaces Gods 4th commandment and break Gods 4th commandment and sin against God. Do you keep Gods seventh day Sabbath according to the scriptures like Jesus and the Apostles did according to the scriptures? Who do you believe and follow God or man? Jesus says if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God and our actions show that our hearts are far from him in Matthew 15:3-9. I prefer to believe Gods Word what about you? Jesus says we shall know them, that is who is from God and who is not by their fruits in Matthew 7:13-23 as does John in 1 John 2:3-4.

That is a strawman argument @3rdAngel @Kenny has not claimed it was abolished. @Wildswanderer has not claimed it was abolished. @Brian2[/USER] has not claimed it was abolished,@pearl has not claimed this and I am not aware of any traditional, historic church that claims it was abolished. Not even @nPeace has claimed it was abolished, and I believe every one of them, at one point or another, has told you the same on this thread. Also, why do you think we have to be commanded to praise the Lord?? I find that a bit odd. However I am willing to concede the point if you can just show us where God does not like to be worshiped on Sunday. Also, if He has any other days where worship is prohibited, please place them here.

There is no strawman my side I have only provided scripture which is Gods Words not my words that are in disagreement with your words that are not Gods Word. As posted in this OP already, no one has answered the OP question including you. Here let me ask it again in case you missed it. Where is the scripture that says Gods 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest? No one has answered the OP because there is no scripture. Lets be honest in our discussion. Your not being truthful. The OP is only asking for one scripture. You cant provide any scripture because there is none. You can search the bible from Genesis to Revelation there is not a single scripture that says Gods 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest because there is no scripture. Sunday worship as posted all throughout this OP is a man-made teaching and traditions that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus given in Matthew 15:2-9 when he says those who do these things are not worshiping God and their hearts are far from Him. According to the scriptures only Gods Word is true and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditions of men that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God and sin (see Romans 3:4; Acts 5:29; 32; 1 John 3:4; 1 John 2:3-4).

Sin is defined as the transgression of Gods law (1 John 3:4) and not believing and following what Gods Word says in Romans 14:23; Matthew 7:21-23. The testing question coming to each one of us will be who do we believe and follow; God or man? In times of ignorance God winks at when we do not know any better (James 4:17; Acts 17:30-31) but when God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we choose to reject Gods Word in order to continue in our sins there remains no more sacrifice for our sins but a fearful looking forward to of judgement to come which will devour the adversaries *Hebrews 10:26-31. Where does it say in the scriptures that mankind (Gods people) did not have to observe the Sabbath at creation? Please provide scripture or all your providing is your theory to justify sin. Even if your theory is true it does not mean that we are to break Gods 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath when God tells us in the 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken to forget and break His 4th commandment now does it? But to be honest and frank with you it is pretty naive to try and argue Gods people before the 10 commandments were give did not know and practice God's law when it is written in Genesis 26:5 "Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws." Therefore lets not make excuses for sin.

According to the scriptures all those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter into God's kingdom according to the scriptures (Matthew 7:21-23) and according to John need to be born again because they do not know God (see 1 John 3:4-10 compare 1 John 2:3-4). According to the scriptures the Sabbath points back to creation and God as the creator of heaven and earth (Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3) and God commands us to remember it as a holy day of rest. Once again there is not a single scripture in all the bible that says Gods 4th commandments has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. we should not be willing to gamble away your salvation and continue in sin (1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23) in order to follow the teachings and traditions of men that have led many away from God and His Word to break Gods 4th commandment? Sorry dear friend but your theories do not agree with scripture but there is time to fix that if you hear Gods Word you can receive Gods blessing.

 

[Elihoenai]

Hey guys

Just wondering where is the scripture that says Gods 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus?

May God bless you as you seek to know Him through His Word.

Romans 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


The 2.2 Billion Carnal/Earthly/Fleshly Christians in Christendom are not subject to the Law of Elohim/God neither indeed can be. The Mind of the Flesh is Enmity to Elohim/God.


East–West Schism

"...A series of ecclesiastical differences and theological disputes between the Greek East and Latin West preceded the formal split that occurred in 1054.[1][3][4] Prominent among these were the procession of the Holy Spirit (Filioque), whether leavened or unleavened bread should be used in the Eucharist,[a] the bishop of Rome's claim to universal jurisdiction, and the place of the See of Constantinople in relation to the pentarchy...."

East–West Schism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org