Where was God...

[ACEofALLaces]

What about for the messengers of God? How do they know anything about the Real God?

Simple! The 'messenger' claims that God revealed itself to HIM and relayed some information to him as well. Bahai's believe that and pretty much expect us to believe it as well. After all, he DID say so, didn't he?

I'm a messenger of God.

Oh REALLY now....and what message do YOU have for us po' people, that God will not tell (Him)self?

 

[Trailblazer]

Give me a little latitude here, and I will attempt to answer your question.
Allow me to use the Christian bible as a point of reference. Supposin' a Christian believer is relating something to you (a non believer), which they have learned from their bible......it would seem quite reasonable for then to relate what they have learned to the other person in their own words......RATHER than reciting scripture, which the other person (probably) knows nothing about, and probably cares even less about, at that time.

They COULD of course, point the other person in the 'direction' of where to look that up for themselves, by providing the necessary references....so that the person can look it up and possibly do further research, if they are so motivated.

Otherwise, their posting quote after quote of someone the other person has most likely never heard of, would be likened to them jabbering Mandarin Chinese at someone from Bophuthatswana, South Africa.
And THAT is what would be a BIG waste of not only their time, but the other persons time as well.

Okay, I had misconstrued what you meant when you said "independent thoughts of your own." I thought you meant thoughts about God that someone just imagined with no use of any scriptures, kind of like what Dotsman does, make-a-god in his own image according to what he considers "logically possible." THAT is what I consider an utter waste of time.

I did not know you had meant putting the meaning of scriptures in our own words, explaining it. I did post some scripture to you just a minute ago, but I also explained what I think it means.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

You do not have to correct Baha’u’llah, because He already KNOWS these things… I was not repeating what Baha’u’llah said because I do not recall Him addressing this matter… I was just spewing forth my own ignorance, so thanks for correcting me… I did not KNOW what abiogenesis was.

Oh of course.....good 'cover'. You'd make a good apologist.
Anyway, since this posting is already so long, I am going to respond to it in sections.

 

[Trailblazer]

What about for the messengers of God? How do they know anything about the Real God?

God reveals that information to them. It's called a revelation from God.

I'm a messenger of God.

Anyone can say that. Do you have any evidence to back up that claim?

 

[ACEofALLaces]

Okay, I had misconstrued what you meant when you said "independent thoughts of your own." I thought you meant thoughts about God that someone just imagined with no use of any scriptures, kind of like what Dotsman does, make-a-god in his own image according to what he considers "logically possible." THAT is what I consider an utter waste of time.

Ahhh yes, Mr Dotsman...almost forgot about him. He DOES make some good points for argument and discussion though, I'll give him that much. Keeps naive and gullible believers on their "toes".

I did not know you had meant putting the meaning of scriptures in our own words, explaining it. I did post some scripture to you just a minute ago, but I also explained what I think it means.

It only make sense to do it that way, rather than burden some person down with gobs and gobs of stuff that might as well be something a nuclear physicists might understand...it being that "foreign" to them.
Jesus was a perfect example of speaking in riddles and parables and double-talk, thereby literally forcing his followers to continue asking him what the hell he means.
THEN he explains it to them.
Talk about a waste of time...when Jesus simply COULD have said what he meant to BEGIN with.
Are you following along with me on this train of thought?

 

[Trailblazer]

Simple! The 'messenger' claims that God revealed itself to HIM and relayed some information to him as well. Bahai's believe that and pretty much expect us to believe it as well. After all, he DID say so, didn't he?

I am glad you have been listening and learning what we believe... I always said you are a quick study, way back when on those 'other forums.'
The part you did not get right is that Baha'is EXPECT you or anyone else to believe it. We do not expect that, as people have free will so they can and should CHOOSE to believe it or not believe it.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

When I said “parallel universes” I was referring to the multiverse; and yes, together they comprise all that is.

So I can take it that you really do not have any concept of what "all there is" means, if you feel you can take a NUMBER of "all there is's" and add them together so as to end up with a really BIG "all there is"?

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh of course.....good 'cover'. You'd make a good apologist.
Anyway, since this posting is already so long, I am going to respond to it in sections.

That is not a cover, I REALLY am ignorant in scientific matters, large and small... Psychology was my gig, not science.

 

[Trailblazer]

Ahhh yes, Mr Dotsman...almost forgot about him. He DOES make some good points for argument and discussion though, I'll give him that much. Keeps naive and gullible believers on their "toes".

He can knock the Christians and the Bible down but he cannot knock the Baha'is down so he stopped trying... He always said "you have already been refuted" because he has no retort to what the Baha'i Faith teaches.... it was so funny to watch him squirm, but it got boring after a while...
I kind of miss him, but I am not going back to that 'other forum' just to post to him. He and Iggy can duke it out.

It only make sense to do it that way, rather than burden some person down with gobs and gobs of stuff that might as well be something a nuclear physicists might understand...it being that "foreign" to them.
Jesus was a perfect example of speaking in riddles and parables and double-talk, thereby literally forcing his followers to continue asking him what the hell he means.
THEN he explains it to them.
Talk about a waste of time...when Jesus simply COULD have said what he meant to BEGIN with.
Are you following along with me on this train of thought?

I am following you as far as us explaining what scriptures mean, but I like the way Jesus talked and there was a reason for it.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

No, it is not what they thought about God, it is what God revealed TO THEM about Himself…. Big difference there.

Big difference only if that declaration has something of substance to support and back it up.....otherwise it is simply another baseless claim of which there are already too many of them floating around.

It IS the Word of God because God spoke to those men, who were not JUST men; they were Manifestations of God… I had to clarify that with another poster yesterday, so I have all that written up and saved in a Word document.
Ahhhh yes, "manifestations of God". Heard that one plenty of times before. SPECIAL people that God "talks" to, because the rest of us peons lack the special gene that allows US to hear what God has to say.

Messengers of God are humans who are Godlike in the sense that they have a divine mind. Their divine station is not something we ordinary humans can comprehend, but we can understand their human station, and that is why they can bridge the gap between God and ordinary humans and act as mediators.

You know, it is really too bad that the technology didn't exist back then to do a genome rundown on them so as to actually IDENTIFY what it is that makes them so "different' from us.

For as it stands now, all we have is their word and your word and the words of those who believe as you do that this it true.
And all the scriptures on the planet are not going to be sufficient in providing accurate verification that there actually were these "Godlike" people. It IS however, easy to claim...and virtually impossible to disprove such a claim.
So it becomes a veritable stalemate.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

I am glad you have been listening and learning what we believe... I always said you are a quick study, way back when on those 'other forums.'
The part you did not get right is that Baha'is EXPECT you or anyone else to believe it. We do not expect that, as people have free will so they can and should CHOOSE to believe it or not believe it.

Unfortunately, my mental make-up prevents me from simply 'believing' something that literally makes no real sense to me. I CANNOT "choose" to believe, free will or NO free will.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

That is not a cover, I REALLY am ignorant in scientific matters, large and small... Psychology was my gig, not science.

I MEANT 'good cover' in your covering for your "messenger" for not knowing what abiogenesis was, apart from evolutionary theory.

 

[Trailblazer]

So I can take it that you really do not have any concept of what "all there is" means, if you feel you can take a NUMBER of "all there is's" and add them together so as to end up with a really BIG "all there is"?

Yep... But it is still all there is, so what's the difference?

 

[Trailblazer]

Big difference only if that declaration has something of substance to support and back it up.....otherwise it is simply another baseless claim of which there are already too many of them floating around.

True, but that all depends upon what YOU consider "something of substance."

 

[ACEofALLaces]

Yep... But it is still all there is, so what's the difference?

I am prevented from saying what I would LIKE to say in response to that remark....as I would likely be banned for it.
The TAME version is that I find it difficult to believe that anyone can be that ignorant. (Now I put the flak jacket on and watch for 'incoming')

 

[ACEofALLaces]

True, but that all depends upon what YOU consider "something of substance."

No, it all depends on what YOU consider to be "something of substance". I only become involved in determining if I can accept your "substance" as being sufficient.

 

[Trailblazer]

For as it stands now, all we have is their word and your word and the words of those who believe as you do that this it true.
And all the scriptures on the planet are not going to be sufficient in providing accurate verification that there actually were these "Godlike" people. It IS however, easy to claim...and virtually impossible to disprove such a claim.
So it becomes a veritable stalemate.

No, these things cannot be verified...
They cannot be proven or dis-proven as a fact, but they CAN be proven to each one of us as the Truth.
Yes, stalemate is a good way of putting it.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

He can knock the Christians and the Bible down but he cannot knock the Baha'is down so he stopped trying... He always said "you have already been refuted" because he has no retort to what the Baha'i Faith teaches.

Ok, I do gotta ask....what makes Bahai so special that differentiates it from all the other religions that can be "knocked down" so easily by an atheist?
It IS an honest question, so please do not go all ballistic on me about it.

 

[Trailblazer]

Unfortunately, my mental make-up prevents me from simply 'believing' something that literally makes no real sense to me. I CANNOT "choose" to believe, free will or NO free will.

That is s good point. It has to make sense to YOU in order for YOU to believe it..
So, since it does not make sense to you, the next step is to explain WHY it does not make sense to you.

 

[shunyadragon]

Well, from my perspective, something which is "Form-less", "Shape-less", "Body-less", "Place-Less", and we might as well add "Weight-less", and "Mass-less", and of course "Time-less", does not really "exist" at all.

Yes to all except does not exist at all. That is your assertion based on your agenda and unanswerable questions.

The universe can therefore be said to have come into existence, by means of what could be said to have been something on the order of "Spontaneous Expansion/Combustion".

No, not even science proposes anything close to this,