which abrahamic religion do you like best?

[Hockeycowboy]

Is it religions that kill people, or is it people that kill people? Which religion teaches a person to kill?

Aren’t the leaders of religious organizations….people?

If professed Christian leaders truly represented Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:20), who said to love your brother (John 15:12), even to love your enemy (Matthew 5:44), they would refuse to support any country in war…..

Impractical?

It would drastically change the political landscape of the world!

 

[McBell]

which abrahamic religion do you like best? And why?

I do not like any of them.

However, there are individuals I really like from all of them.
Well, at least the ones the people I like are with.

 

[SalixIncendium]

If I had just said that, I doubt that you would have asked why. (Or anyone else.) By stating that fact first — that there is “one that doesn’t get involved in killing others” — it piqued your interest.

I know you're a Jehovah's Witness and I'm well aware of the beliefs associated with that religion given I worked with one and discussed his beliefs in depth.

I just wanted to clarify that you were, indeed, talking about your religion, because I make it a point to not make assumptions.

Piqued my interest? Not really accurate. What you piqued was my inclination to call out people who incite drama though not being impeccable with their word and posting elitist rhetoric rather than answering a question.

But really, in asking your question,

doesn’t that imply that you were surprised an Abrahamic religion like that even existed?

Again, no.

If you want to know what it implies, there is no need to make assumptions and incite further drama by posting implications based on those assumptions. I'm right here for you to ask.

“Conspiring” denotes premeditation. I haven’t done that. I’m certain it’s not in any of their bylaws / policies.
No doubt most would prefer their respective countries to settle differences peacefully, as all sane people would.
And I’m not accusing the laity of these organizations.

Conspiring denotes intent, not premeditation.

But I haven’t seen many religious leaders tell their sheep to refuse to kill when their country goes to war.
Have you?

I haven't seen many religious leaders outside of Christianity call members of their religion "sheep." I always felt doing so was quite condescending...that the leaders somehow see themselves as superior to the community they lead.

But thanks for the segue into this...

No we are taught to “consider others superior” to us (Philippians 2:3)… to try and be humble, and kind, and loving. To follow Jesus’ command to love. John 13:34,35

Why? What makes one being more superior to another? By what logic does this translate into being loving? Why would one expect the sheep to love the wolf? Why would being subjugated translate to love?

You say “holier than thou” attitude …is that how I come across? I apologize, I don’t mean to.

A little bit in your initial response to this thread...by demonstrating an elitism of sorts. But I accept the apology.

I do know that love, genuine love, is “holier” than hatred, and I think that you do, too.

Please define "genuine love." I want to make sure we are aligned on the definition before I comment on what you think I know.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Is it? You think so, too?
Some nations don’t think so, even in peacetime, but especially when they are going to war
In fact, many of our brothers are in their country’s prisons right now because of the neutral stand we take.

I'm personally opposed to conscription generally. Yes: I think that people who don't want to fight in wars shouldn't have to.

I'd say you could go quite a bit farther if you really wanted to "not get involved in killing others" in war, though. For instance, back when I was attending a Quaker meeting, they were organizing a tax protest: some of the members were withholding the share of income tax that went to the Department of Defense and included a letter in their tax returns telling CRA that they would only release the held-back funds if the government pledged not to fight wars.

The JWs are fine with funding war as long as you don't have to fight in war yourselves, right?

We accept all forms of medical procedures that don’t violate Biblical principles. Like Acts 15:28,29.

In fact, we’ve helped the medical field to establish many beneficial & healthier forms of treating their patients!

"We only get involved in killing others when we think it's justified" is not "we don't get involved in killing others."

Several? Which ones?

Off the top of my head: Quakers, Mennonites, Hutterites, the Amish.

Looks like there are a bunch more listed here that I'm not familiar with: Peace churches - Wikipedia

(We’re not pacifists, really. For instance, although we wouldn’t fight against the authorities if they attacked us, we could individually protect our families & loved ones, with force, against a murderer or, say, unsanctioned mob violence.)

So JWs do get involved with killing others? You said the opposite earlier.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Interesting. Based on what I know about that faith, I would disagree (it seems to be a cult). But I need to read up on them more to say anything further.

It's a very 'Christian' practice to refer to religions outside of Christianity as cults. Its a very derogatory word of course. Its disappointing to see educated people label groups they know little about in such a manner but its part of a mindset for many Christians regardless. You might want to consider what makes a religion Abrahamic and what defines a cult.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's a very 'Christian' practice to refer to religions outside of Christianity as cults. Its a very derogatory word of course. Its disappointing to see educated people label groups they know little about in such a manner but its part of a mindset for many Christians regardless. You might want to consider what makes a religion Abrahamic and what defines a cult.

When does a cult become a religion?

THE ESSENTIAL difference is openness. Religions publish their beliefs openly in the Bible, Koran, Bhagavadgita, etc, and seek to persuade the public of their truth. Anyone who accepts these beliefs and the accompanying rituals is recognised as a member of the religion. There is a priesthood which is open to any (normally male) person with the necessary commitment. Religions therefore seek a mass following. Cults, however, rely on secret or special knowledge which is revealed only to initiates by the cult's founder or his/her chosen representatives. Beliefs aren't normally published. Everything depends on a personal relationship between the founder and followers, who are required to separate themselves from the rest of the world. This enables the founder and his associates to dominate and exploit the members. All religions begin as cults. Christianity began as one of several competing messianic sects and became a religion when Paul and his followers began proselytising outside Judea. Cults fade away when those who knew the founder die. Who remembers the Ranters, the Sandemanians or the Muggletonians now?

When does a cult become a religion? | Notes and Queries | guardian.co.uk

www.theguardian.com

​

 

[Jainarayan]

Probably Conservative Judaism because of its focus and emphasis on devotion to God. And at festivals and holidays they gots some slammin' food! Second would be Orthdox Christianity for its mysticism and lack of the legalism of Roman Catholicism. And I love the clerical garb of the monks and bishops. I mean c'mon, you can't tell me these robes and veils aren't fab.

 

[Regiomontanus]

It's a very 'Christian' practice to refer to religions outside of Christianity as cults. Its a very derogatory word of course. Its disappointing to see educated people label groups they know little about in such a manner but its part of a mindset for many Christians regardless. You might want to consider what makes a religion Abrahamic and what defines a cult.

As I said, I would need to read up on it more to say anything further. However, based on what limited experience I have with some people who identify as Baha'i, it does seem very cultish to me. Just an impression I get.

 

[Dawnofhope]

As I said, I would need to read up on it more to say anything further. However, based on what limited experience I have with some people who identify as Baha'i, it does seem very cultish to me. Just an impression I get.

Can you be more specific?

 

[LuisDantas]

which abrahamic religion do you like best? And why?

Judaism. It does not expect to fit all of humanity, and it is somewhat more aware of the responsibility that it imposes upon itself than those that came later.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I know you're a Jehovah's Witness and I'm well aware of the beliefs associated with that religion given I worked with one and discussed his beliefs in depth.

Well, that’s good…having insight is always beneficial.

I just wanted to clarify that you were, indeed, talking about your religion, because I make it a point to not make assumptions.

Another good policy.

Piqued my interest? Not really accurate. What you piqued was my inclination to call out people who incite drama though not being impeccable with their word and posting elitist rhetoric rather than answering a question.

Are you referring to me? I’m ‘inciting drama’? How do you mean?
I truthfully answered the OP’s question. When you asked, “Which one is that”, I answered truthfully.

Again, no.

If you want to know what it implies, there is no need to make assumptions and incite further drama by posting implications based on those assumptions. I'm right here for you to ask.

That’s why I framed it in the form of a question, in case I misunderstood. No drama was intended.

Conspiring denotes intent, not premeditation.

Ok…though I think “to conspire” denotes not only “intent” but also “premeditation”, as conspiring requires planning.

I haven't seen many religious leaders outside of Christianity call members of their religion "sheep." I always felt doing so was quite condescending...that the leaders somehow see themselves as superior to the community they lead.

In our JW community, I’m just another brother. I consider myself a sheep. Sheep follow a shepherd. We strive to follow Christ. (Does that sound elitist? Is that what you mean? You used the word twice in this response.)

Why? What makes one being more superior to another? By what logic does this translate into being loving?

What? The Scripture doesn’t say ‘acting superior is loving’; it’s the other way around…. a person who loves others, puts others’ interest ahead of his own, he treats them as superior to himself.

Why would one expect the sheep to love the wolf?

Huh? Sheep don’t love wolves. They do, however, love their shepherd, who cares for them.

Why would being subjugated translate to love?

Where did you get ‘subjugate’ from? As in to conquer? That word doesn’t even apply.

At Matthew 11:28-30, Jesus said to ‘Take his yoke…’. He doesn’t force it on anyone. The Shepherd’s sheep take it on themselves willingly. Or should.

When growing up, I had a loving mother. (My dad was gone; it was just me & my mom.) She had my best interests at heart. I had no problem listening to & obeying her (well, most of the time, lol!) Being obedient to her, was one way I showed her that I loved her.

Please define "genuine love." I want to make sure we are aligned on the definition before I comment on what you think I know.

Grief man, I’m not trying to trick you. (Genuine just means without hypocrisy.)
‘What I think you know’?!

Why is your guard raised so high? Those discussions you had with that JW you worked with…did they turn out unpleasant or something?

You don’t have to answer.

I wish you all the best; take care.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Are you referring to me? I’m ‘inciting drama’? How do you mean?
I truthfully answered the OP’s question. When you asked, “Which one is that”, I answered truthfully.

I was.

The OP asked what your favorite Abrahamic religion was. There is no religion called "the one that doesn't doesn't get involved in killing others," which is what your answer was. Thus implying that there are Abrahamic religions that involve themselves in killing others. Thus creating drama.

If you "truthfully answered the OP's question" without inciting drama, your response would have been "Jehovah's Witnesses" (or Quakers, because I'm not aware of any Quaker terrorist organizations).

In our JW community, I’m just another brother. I consider myself a sheep. Sheep follow a shepherd. We strive to follow Christ. (Does that sound elitist? Is that what you mean? You used the word twice in this response.)

So you're not a leader in your religion then? Because you didn't use the word "shepherd" in your previous posts. You used "religious leaders."

There are no leaders in Jehovah's Witnesses aside from Jehovah? No Governing Body? Only a band of brothers?

Where did you get ‘subjugate’ from? As in to conquer? That word doesn’t even apply.

At Matthew 11:28-30, Jesus said to ‘Take his yoke…’. He doesn’t force it on anyone. The Shepherd’s sheep take it on themselves willingly. Or should.

When growing up, I had a loving mother. (My dad was gone; it was just me & my mom.) She had my best interests at heart. I had no problem listening to & obeying her (well, most of the time, lol!) Being obedient to her, was one way I showed her that I loved her.

As into bring into control or governance. As in "religious leaders" or a governing body.

Grief man, I’m not trying to trick you. (Genuine just means without hypocrisy.)
‘What I think you know’?!

Why is your guard raised so high? Those discussions you had with that JW you worked with…did they turn out unpleasant or something?

You don’t have to answer.

Oh, but I will.

I was asking for clarification if you meant divine love, romantic love, or some other form of love, because you chose to qualify the term with "genuine."

Instead you come back with "'What I think you know'?!" as if outraged by the statement when you clearly made a statement about your thinking I know something:

I do know that love, genuine love, is “holier” than hatred, and I think that you do, too.

Then you continue on with a passive-aggressive tripe about my guard being raised and an assumption about how my discussions with my JW coworker went.

Please don't play manipulative posturing games with me. I've been sincere, transparent, and forthcoming with you, and I would appreciate being afforded the same level of respect if you wish to continue this discussion.

Also, I'm not sure if this is a JW thing, but I've seen others here use the same tactic, presumably in an attempt to end a discussion or avert a response to a point that was made.

I wish you all the best; take care.

But given the candor of your previous point, it comes off as less than sincere.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

back when I was attending a Quaker meeting, they were organizing a tax protest: some of the members were withholding the share of income tax that went to the Department of Defense and included a letter in their tax returns telling CRA that they would only release the held-back funds if the government pledged not to fight wars.

How’d that turn out?

The JWs are fine with funding war…

No!

"We only get involved in killing others when we think it's justified"…

Your words, not mine.
Stop twisting my words.

Off the top of my head: Quakers, Mennonites, Hutterites, the Amish.

Looks like there are a bunch more listed here that I'm not familiar with: Peace churches - Wikipedia

Interesting! It is… though many of these I’ve never heard of before. They’ve never knocked on my door. Matthew 28:19,20; Acts 5:42.

Except Mormons. But then, they’re not usually contientious objectors.

So JWs do get involved with killing others?

No…I should have said “non-lethal force.”

FYI (though I doubt you’ll appreciate these facts & the conclusion)…

“The benefits of blood transfusion have never been conclusively demonstrated, but evidence of transfusion-related harm continues to accumulate.”
Excerpt from

The silent risks of blood transfusion - PubMed

The benefits of blood transfusion have never been conclusively demonstrated, but evidence of transfusion-related harm continues to accumulate. Given the transfusion triggers that currently predominate in clinical practice it appears that clinical outcomes could improve significantly with more...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Since blood transfusions cannot guarantee saving our lives, why would we be disobedient to God, thus risk damaging our relationship with Him…and die anyways, w/o His approval?

And if a Witness (unwisely) decides to get one, we don’t kill him. As individuals, our dedicated relationships are with Jehovah God & Christ, not with His organization.

As Paul said to Timothy @ 2 Timothy 2:24… “a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle toward all…”
So with that in mind, there’s really no more to be said to each other… it will just be argumentative & fruitless.


Have a good day, my cousin.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I was.

The OP asked what your favorite Abrahamic religion was. There is no religion called "the one that doesn't doesn't get involved in killing others," which is what your answer was. Thus implying that there are Abrahamic religions that involve themselves in killing others. Thus creating drama.

If you "truthfully answered the OP's question" without inciting drama, your response would have been "Jehovah's Witnesses" (or Quakers, because I'm not aware of any Quaker terrorist organizations).


So you're not a leader in your religion then? Because you didn't use the word "shepherd" in your previous posts. You used "religious leaders."

There are no leaders in Jehovah's Witnesses aside from Jehovah? No Governing Body? Only a band of brothers?


As into bring into control or governance. As in "religious leaders" or a governing body.


Oh, but I will.

I was asking for clarification if you meant divine love, romantic love, or some other form of love, because you chose to qualify the term with "genuine."

Instead you come back with "'What I think you know'?!" as if outraged by the statement when you clearly made a statement about your thinking I know something:

Then you continue on with a passive-aggressive tripe about my guard being raised and an assumption about how my discussions with my JW coworker went.

Please don't play manipulative posturing games with me. I've been sincere, transparent, and forthcoming with you, and I would appreciate being afforded the same level of respect if you wish to continue this discussion.

Also, I'm not sure if this is a JW thing, but I've seen others here use the same tactic, presumably in an attempt to end a discussion or avert a response to a point that was made.

But given the candor of your previous point, it comes off as less than sincere.

I’m at a loss.
Yes, I think you do know — and agree — that love is holier than hatred.
“Passive-aggressive tripe”? Playing “manipulative posturing games”?

You told me you don’t like to assume.
What is this?

Here’s what I think…my assumption:

That you’ve conditioned yourself to be highly suspect of all religion, at least the organized ones.

Which is a wise position to take.

But it might behoove you to consider that the Creator of all of us would make sure that there is one group of people that tries hard to live by His standards, in spite of this wicked world. — James 1:27

Just for clarification, our leader is Christ, who as God’s “Servant” (Acts 4:27,30), is led by God.

You are right though… we do have a governing body, just as the First century Christians had the apostles, & listened to them, to maintain unity.
But we’re all brothers.

I wish you well, my cousin.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

How’d that turn out?

Not sure. I haven't seen anything about it in the news.

No!

The JWs have a similar tax protest? I hadn't heard.

Your words, not mine.
Stop twisting my words.

It's a fair paraphrasing of the JW position: if your child needs a blood transfusion to live, you would choose for them to die rather than save them. JW forbids blood transfusions even when this stance kills children.

(It kills adults, too... but you specified killing others)

Interesting! It is… though many of these I’ve never heard of before. They’ve never knocked on my door. Matthew 28:19,20; Acts 5:42.

Except Mormons. But then, they’re not usually contientious objectors.

Yeah - AFAIK, Mormons aren't pacifists.

No…I should have said “non-lethal force.”

Thank you for the clarification. So the JWs also forbid their members to use deadly force for personal defense?

FYI (though I doubt you’ll appreciate these facts & the conclusion)…

I'd say calling that "facts" is overly generous.

 

[SalixIncendium]

You told me you don’t like to assume.
What is this?

Observation. Words typed on a web page.

Here’s what I think…my assumption:

That you’ve conditioned yourself to be highly suspect of all religion, at least the organized ones.

Upon what are you basing this assumption? I don't remember ever having a discussion with you about "all religion."

 

[Khabeni412]

Judaism, at least reform Judaism. I went to a synagogue a few times and talked with a Rabbi there. Very nice fellow. Not condescending like Christian pastors. (Well, protestants anyway). He asked me what I believed and I told him. At the time I was in-between atheism and deism. He told me I was free to believe as I wish and told me about reform Judaism. Everytime I've talked with a Christian pastor they've told me I needed to believe this and there wasn't a choice. Same with talking to a Muslim Imam, only worse. From my experience, reform Judaism is the most liberal and welcoming. Evangelical Christianity is the most conservative and least welcoming. Islam is in-between. Off topic, but Hindu and Buddhist leaders in my town I've talked to were similar to the rabbi, welcoming and nice to talk to.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Judaism.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Judaism, at least reform Judaism. I went to a synagogue a few times and talked with a Rabbi there. Very nice fellow. Not condescending like Christian pastors.

I have interacted with a number of Christian faith leaders and I've been impressed by most. On the other hand, I am not at all impressed by denigrating generalizations.

 

[Khabeni412]

I have interacted with a number of Christian faith leaders and I've been impressed by most. On the other hand, I am not at all impressed by denigrating generalizations.

I have too from some Christian leaders. But only Catholics and Catholic-like. (Anglican, Lutheran etc.). I went to a Catholic priest a few times for therapy. He kept it basically secular until then end which we did a short prayer. Used to go to an Anglican church for the company and free food. But I work every Sunday now.