Which belief closer to Jews (Islam or Christianity)

[Moishe3rd]

I'm Muslim and I agree with what you are saying about the Torah, but those do not mean Muslims call it a lie or a completely different version. Saying it is a lie means Muslims don't even believe in it, yet they do. As I said, some teachings are still shared between the two. More examples for that are circumcision and pork prohibition. Circumcision is one of the examples that was not mentioned on the Quran and Muhammad took it from the unchanged parts of the previous Abrahamic religions. Let alone (afaik) that all prophets Jews believe in, Muslims believe in too. I also take the Quran as my first source then the Hadeeth, should there be answers sought.

I think what matters the most is the most basic rule, the oneness of God or G-d. Don't you think so too?

That's what I and others in my community believe as Muslims. I'm not really saying you are wrong. Muslims are so many in this world that things get screwed up because of the human nature and differences.

I understand what you are trying to convey, I think.
It reads as though you are kind of embarrassed that Islam basically says that the Jews altered the World of G-d for their own nefarious purposes but that Muhammad made it right again... No?

Either way, as noted, both Jews and Christians believe that the entire "old testament" is the unalterable Word of G-d. Muslims don't.

 

[Kirran]

I understand what you are trying to convey, I think.
It reads as though you are kind of embarrassed that Islam basically says that the Jews altered the World of G-d for their own nefarious purposes but that Muhammad made it right again... No?

Either way, as noted, both Jews and Christians believe that the entire "old testament" is the unalterable Word of G-d. Muslims don't.

Well, the literalists do, this is by no means universal.

 

[Desert Snake]

Does not.

Yes it does.

Islam feels Christendom in a polytheistic religion ergo
at odds with monotheistic Islam.

therefore

Islam does not see Jesus as God and sees the Trinity as
false doctrine. Polytheistic = God +Jesus as Divine+the holy Ghost
is three god's, not one.

It would seem polytheistic if you don't understand the theology.

 

[Moishe3rd]

Well, the literalists do, this is by no means universal.

I suppose... "Literalists" reads as a bit demeaning or condescending.
The overwhelming majority of Torah observant Jews ("Orthodox") are far from what you could call "literalists."
There are 3,000 years of Torah and commentaries and questions of every shape and hue that define how we believe that the Torah is the unalterable Word of G-d.
Taken the Written Torah and Tanach as "literal" Word of G-d is but one part of that understanding.

The point was, of course, that both Christians and Jews believe that G-d was responsible for the words and stories of the "old testament." Muslims don't. It's a difference of belief.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Does not. Islam feels Christendom in a polytheistic religion ergo
at odds with monotheistic Islam.
Islam does not see Jesus as God and sees the Trinity as
false doctrine. Polytheistic = God +Jesus as Divine+the holy Ghost
is three god's, not one.
Islam has a point there.

Oneness Pentecostalism does see Jesus as God. They're just not Trinitarians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneness_Pentecostalism

And Trinitarianism is not polytheism, once again.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I understand what you are trying to convey, I think.
It reads as though you are kind of embarrassed that Islam basically says that the Jews altered the World of G-d for their own nefarious purposes but that Muhammad made it right again... No?

Either way, as noted, both Jews and Christians believe that the entire "old testament" is the unalterable Word of G-d. Muslims don't.

Nope, I'm not embarrassed about it. It is believed in Islam that the books were altered and it is its duty to remind the previous Abrahamic religions of what it believed to be the right path. If anything, it is just that my heart feels bad for how the Jews could feel about it.

Also, if Christians believed the entire Old Testaments, why does the New Testament exist? Why don't they just follow the OT? Why is there a belief in the Trinity while the OT says God is one and unique without mentioning multiple sides of Him?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Also, if Christians believed the entire Old Testaments, why does the New Testament exist? Why don't they just follow the OT? Why is there a belief in the Trinity while the OT says God is one and unique without mentioning multiple sides of Him?

The Testaments of the Christian Bible are speaking of the two Covenants that God made with man. The first was with the Jews and the second was with all humanity through Christ (which also fulfilled the first one made with the Jews). As for the Trinity, we believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit because we believe that is something that Christ revealed to us about God.

 

[Moishe3rd]

Nope, I'm not embarrassed about it. It is believed in Islam that the books were altered and it is its duty to remind the previous Abrahamic religions of what it believed to be the right path. If anything, it is just that my heart feels bad for how the Jews could feel about it.

Also, if Christians believed the entire Old Testaments, why does the New Testament exist? Why don't they just follow the OT? Why is there a belief in the Trinity while the OT says God is one and unique without mentioning multiple sides of Him?

The Christian interpretation is that Jesus came to fulfill the words of the "old testament" and therefore to save all mankind, not only the Jews. The "new testament" is a record of Jesus and how his teachings are to be a light unto mankind.
It's pretty much what all new religions believe - whether they be Lutheran; Druze; Tibetan Buddhism; or Rastafarian.
Everybody thinks that "The others" didn't understand (or "The others" changed) the original teachings of G-d and now "Their" understanding is the New and Improved and, of course, "Authentic" Teaching of their god.

It's kind of funny because - Jews are the only ones who started new "religious" sects founded on the idea of "just not being so Jewish!"
All the rest of mankind says "No - you've been doing it Wrong all this time! It has been revealed to ME that this is the True Way to see god."
Jews?
"Ehhh.... You know, if you'd just stop acting so Jewish with all of these meshugga Commandments and Traditions, then everybody would stop trying to kill us!"
This is the basis of all non Torah observant Jewish sects such as Reform or Conservative...
"Der mentsh trakht un got lakht.- Man plans and G-d laughs."

 

[RabbiO]

[QUOTE="Moishe3rd, post: 4439894, member: 46389"
"Ehhh.... You know, if you'd just stop acting so Jewish with all of these meshugga Commandments and Traditions, then everybody would stop trying to kill us!"
This is the basis of all non Torah observant Jewish sects such as Reform or Conservative... [/QUOTE]

Arrogant, asinine and ignorant. You sure pack a lot in just two sentences.

Nevertheless, I wish you and yours - גמר חתימה טובה

 

[MARCELLO]

Tell me a religion without pork.

 

[Smart_Guy]

The Testaments of the Christian Bible are speaking of the two Covenants that God made with man. The first was with the Jews and the second was with all humanity through Christ (which also fulfilled the first one made with the Jews). As for the Trinity, we believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit because we believe that is something that Christ revealed to us about God.

As usual, thank you Frank

The Christian interpretation is that Jesus came to fulfill the words of the "old testament" and therefore to save all mankind, not only the Jews. The "new testament" is a record of Jesus and how his teachings are to be a light unto mankind.
It's pretty much what all new religions believe - whether they be Lutheran; Druze; Tibetan Buddhism; or Rastafarian.
Everybody thinks that "The others" didn't understand (or "The others" changed) the original teachings of G-d and now "Their" understanding is the New and Improved and, of course, "Authentic" Teaching of their god.

It's kind of funny because - Jews are the only ones who started new "religious" sects founded on the idea of "just not being so Jewish!"
All the rest of mankind says "No - you've been doing it Wrong all this time! It has been revealed to ME that this is the True Way to see god."
Jews?
"Ehhh.... You know, if you'd just stop acting so Jewish with all of these meshugga Commandments and Traditions, then everybody would stop trying to kill us!"
This is the basis of all non Torah observant Jewish sects such as Reform or Conservative...
"Der mentsh trakht un got lakht.- Man plans and G-d laughs."

Yes, to each their own, I believe

 

[Moishe3rd]

[QUOTE="Moishe3rd, post: 4439894, member: 46389"
"Ehhh.... You know, if you'd just stop acting so Jewish with all of these meshugga Commandments and Traditions, then everybody would stop trying to kill us!"
This is the basis of all non Torah observant Jewish sects such as Reform or Conservative...

Arrogant, asinine and ignorant. You sure pack a lot in just two sentences.

Nevertheless, I wish you and yours - גמר חתימה טובה[/QUOTE]

And a g'mar chasima tova to you also.
However - I appreciate your umbrage but - perhaps you could explain the theological or revelatory or religious reorientation or however one might choose to describe it - nature of the Haskalah in relation to G-d and the Torah.
Seriously. I would indeed appreciate being historically accurate. As you disagree, perhaps you could sum up the Reform movement in a different way.
Thank you!

 

[Kirran]

I suppose... "Literalists" reads as a bit demeaning or condescending.
The overwhelming majority of Torah observant Jews ("Orthodox") are far from what you could call "literalists."
There are 3,000 years of Torah and commentaries and questions of every shape and hue that define how we believe that the Torah is the unalterable Word of G-d.
Taken the Written Torah and Tanach as "literal" Word of G-d is but one part of that understanding.

The point was, of course, that both Christians and Jews believe that G-d was responsible for the words and stories of the "old testament." Muslims don't. It's a difference of belief.

I didn't mean it to be demeaning. I just meant to refer to those who take this text as the literal word of God. Hence literalist. What is an alternative term for this?

I understand that Christians and Jews, unlike Muslims, respect the Old Testament. But there are plenty of both who treat it as neither infallible nor the Word of God, while still being devout Jews or Christians.

 

[Godobeyer]

I didn't mean it to be demeaning. I just meant to refer to those who take this text as the literal word of God. Hence literalist. What is an alternative term for this?

I understand that Christians and Jews, unlike Muslims, respect the Old Testament. But there are plenty of both who treat it as neither infallible nor the Word of God, while still being devout Jews or Christians.

We (Muslims ) believe in original Torah and original Gospel that comes from God , and in these edited onces we accept only which match with Quran , and I personally respect them because content God labels and prophets names .

it's very probly of most of Muslims respect Bible and Torah because it's content God and Prophets names,inspite that we consider them both (Bible and Torah) corrupted by humans

 

[Kirran]

We (Muslims ) believe in original Torah and original Gospel that comes from God , and in these edited onces we accept only which match with Quran , and I personally respect them because content God labels and prophets names .

it's very probly of most of Muslims respect Bible and Torah because it's content God and Prophets names,inspite that we consider them both (Bible and Torah) corrupted by humans

How can you be sure the Quran isn't corrupted?

 

[Godobeyer]

How can you be sure the Quran isn't corrupted?

that's called believe, Christians and Jews and others don't believe in Quran at all, so we believe in thier Holly Books but consider them corrupted by authors .

maybe because :
1- Quran don't have authors , it's comes from source , The prophet and his companions whom memorised the Quran that recit from Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

2- it's does NOT content any errors

 

[MARCELLO]

that's called believe, Christians and Jews and others don't believe in Quran at all, so we believe in thier Holly Books but consider them corrupted by authors .

maybe because :
1- Quran don't have authors , it's comes from source , The prophet and his companions whom memorised the Quran that recit from Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

2- it's does NOT content any errors

How can you believe their books if you think they are corrupted? Which part of these are corrupted and how can you make sure?The first abrahamic religion which is judaism clearly defines and describes what would be the next messiah coming. That's neither Mohammed nor Jesus.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I'd say Islam due to their oneness with God and that they eat certain foods and avoid certain things, like pork. People mistakenly believe the Christians believe in 3 gods when it's just one God that takes 3 main forms. Some religions believe God is indivisible but I never quite agreed with that. If God is all powerful and can do anything he wants, he can take on as many forms as he wants.

 

[Kirran]

that's called believe, Christians and Jews and others don't believe in Quran at all, so we believe in thier Holly Books but consider them corrupted by authors .

maybe because :
1- Quran don't have authors , it's comes from source , The prophet and his companions whom memorised the Quran that recit from Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

2- it's does NOT content any errors

1 - This is an assertion, but how can it be proved?

2 - In what sense? If you mean scientific errors, then certainly it does.

 

[Godobeyer]

How can you believe their books if you think they are corrupted? Which part of these are corrupted and how can you make sure?The first abrahamic religion which is judaism clearly defines and describes what would be the next messiah coming. That's neither Mohammed nor Jesus.

Judiasm is not first religion .

We believe Islam (submission to God ) existed since Adam (pbuh) and Eve .

btw Abrahamic is comes from Abraham (pbuh) , what was Abraham (pbuh) religion ,and Noah (pbuh) and Adam (pbuh) ?