Which Book is the true word of God, Quran, or Bible?

[Dimi95]

How else do you know about your God,?

The Church!
The Church exists from the begining , from day one , The Bible is what came into existence 300 years later.

If all manuscripts were to be burned today , we could still make the same Bible from the Church Father letters.

 

[blü 2]

What are your thoughts?

Those of a materialist and igtheist ─ that the only manner in which supernatural beings are known to exist is as concepts, notions, things imagined in individual brains.

As a reader, I expect that the Tanakh has some probably-real history, and some probably-accurate social information, amongst all the rest, but as for which is what, I'm largely in the hands of the archaeologists and historians.

But my efforts to read the Qur'an have all foundered on the piecemeal non-sequential presentation. It probably doesn't help, either, that my culture and education all trace back to Europe.

 

[firedragon]

Why are you thanking me?

The Injeel wasn't "special" enough to elaborate in the Quran, Allah says you're welcome?

End of conversation mate. Your previous comment was just a sign of what you are and I have no interest in interacting with people like that. That's why I ended it with a nice and a thanks. Have a great day.

 

[stvdv]

Stvdv thanks for your comment. I didn't intend to exclude yours or any other faith. but we have a serious consideration here to scrutinize. It also helps to have a narrow topic. please feel free to create a thread. or include your thought about your faith.

IF you had added:
4) Both
5) Neither

THEN I could have answered the Poll

My answer: Both Religions are Granted by God

 

[JameScott]

Is this a trick question? Neither book is the 'true' word of God. Both have been written by men.

you would have know the contents to have a different perspective.
As a devout Muslim, even better a sheik, The Quran is said to be an attribute of God. A miracle from God.
Ask a Devout Christian if the Bible is God's word. The Bible contains so many records of what God said and the implications of the word of God for example Jesus is quoted to say Man shall not live on bread alone but by every word that come from the mouth of God; else where it says All scripture is God Breathed/Inspired by God; in another place it says The sword of the spirit which is the word of God.
You must Read beyond surface level to Understand why we say Word of God, even though it is common knowledge that both Bible and Quran are practically written by men, Their contents are more than Human writings.

 

[Madsaac]

you would have know the contents to have a different perspective.
As a devout Muslim, even better a sheik, The Quran is said to be an attribute of God. A miracle from God.
Ask a Devout Christian if the Bible is God's word. The Bible contains so many records of what God said and the implications of the word of God for example Jesus is quoted to say Man shall not live on bread alone but by every word that come from the mouth of God; else where it says All scripture is God Breathed/Inspired by God; in another place it says The sword of the spirit which is the word of God.
You must Read beyond surface level to Understand why we say Word of God, even though it is common knowledge that both Bible and Quran are practically written by men, Their contents are more than Human writings.

At the end of the day the contents of these books are trying to instruct us to be better people, which is a good thing (Even though they are thousands of years old and out dated). Love your fellow man etc

But why does it need have such a strong reference to God, Jesus or Mohammed, we already know how to behave, it's caused so many problems.

Surely, we can use a book simply written by our fellow humans to gain knowledge? Some pragmatism! It might take the 'Mines right, yours is wrong' attitude out of it? Why wouldn't that work?

 

[JameScott]

The Gospels are mostly intact and from God. The Torah and books between that and Gospels are largely corrupted and there is a contradiction between two themes.

The Quran to me presents a more reasonable God, more eloquent God, more logical and more clean in the way he relates his religion to people. Very consistent.

So for example, Judaism is particular to people selected and a covenant uniquely taken to the children of Israel and Christianity depends on Jesus as the central role, Islam as presented in Quran shows the religion is consistent from Adam (a) till now. The religion structure is not exactly same in minute details but overall archetype structure.

I think God would present the same religion in all times. Again, small details can change, but overall structure the same. Particularly, I find the reasoning and wisdom of how the chosen ones come together as a group called "a family" which are closer to each other then all others very reasonable.

The Quran shows while we should exalt the exalted ones, we shouldn't make it all about one in particular as opposed to all of them, and to not distinguish between, we don't make the founder more important then the successor or the successor of the successor.

This keeps people balanced, and not make all about a person, rather than God. They are rather seen means to God.

And yet... in Islam the founder is revered. In some places Quran is revered and some killed for bringing harm to the book. The last prophet, his words are more the basis of the religion, including the notion of corruption in other books. Or perhaps you perceive Islam differently.

 

[Dimi95]

Ask a Devout Christian if the Bible is God's word. The Bible contains so many records of what God said and the implications of the word of God for example Jesus is quoted to say Man shall not live on bread alone but by every word that come from the mouth of God

Which means again Jesus himself.

John 1
"In the begining was the Word(principle of reason), and the Word was with God , and the Word was God"

Did the Bible existed since the begining?
Like billion years ago?
I don't think so...

It is pretty weird how you Westerners try to make something more of what actually it is.

Not just Christians , but all in general.

; else where it says All scripture is God Breathed/Inspired by God;

True

Church Fathers were inspired by the message before The Bible was defined as such and did what was neccessary to pass the message to the nwxt generarion
And 2000 years later , everyone is able to discuss it , because of that fact.

in another place it says The sword of the spirit which is the word of God.

Which again is Jesus.

Read Matthew 10

You must Read beyond surface level to Understand why we say Word of God, even though it is common knowledge that both Bible and Quran are practically written by men, Their contents are more than Human writings.

Yeah , but they both differ in how they are written.

Quran is one book , The Bible is a collection of many books that were written in different time.

Genesis and Acts are two different books..

Regards

Orthodoxy

 

[danieldemol]

I think it is possible to consider human errors in both, yet one denies the existence of human errors. the Quran is said to be without errors as it is perfectly preserved and one of the miracles in Islam. The Bible possibly has errors, that is not denied, however, it appears that overall the message or meaning and implication of the communication remains whole, inspire of human error. this is Similar to "He went to the shop" & " He walked to the shop". Different but overall meaning and communication remains.

The person i was responding to seemed to believe the Bible is without error.

The Quran claims to be without error, however to me that is a laughable claim.

Hence the reason I reject both in my view.

 

[stvdv]

All scripture is God Breathed/Inspired by God; in another place it says The sword of the spirit which is the word of God.

You must Read beyond surface level to Understand why we say Word of God, even though it is common knowledge that both Bible and Quran are practically written by men,

I agree with that: both Books are written by men AND inspired by God, hence there are many useful verses to instruct us to live our lives inspired by The Divine

Their contents are more than Human writings.

True

 

[JameScott]

There was no selection for "Both" .. the assumption that the whole book has to be either true or false .. a false dichotomy.

God speaks through many venues ... teachings us God(s) law .. Rules .. and Covenant. The Golden Rule for example is taught in Hammurabi's Law code -- recieved from the most high God .. the Old Testament from the Most High .. Confucius .. Buddha .. the foundation on which Jesus bases his ministry .. and yes our friend Muhamoo also has this rule "No compulsion in Islam"

Now that one finds truth in the Bible .. does not mean the entire book is written by "God" .. and the big misconception is that the words come only from one God .. which would be to deny at minimum the author of confusion .. Chief God over the Earth and tester of souls "Gods Word" as opposed to the Word of the Chief God in the heavens .. the God of Jesus and Abraham .. The Father ..

Contradiction ? .. there is contradiction within the same book The Bible for example .. Do we A ) Kill the child for the sin of the Father or B) Do not kill the child for the sins of the Father ,, -- each is to be punished according to his own sin.

Which is from "The one True God" ?? Neither .. .. as there is no one true God ... Both Gods are True .. one as true as the other... I choose to follow the God giving us Rule B) .. others wish to follow Lord Jealous --- twin demiurge of YHWH .. the Convenant where Rule A comes from.

So there is actually no contradiction .. some made up monotheistic God that does not exist in the text contradicting himself .. what we have is two different Gods.

you make a good point, but that topic in narrow on purpose. it's beefy enough as it is for discussion. please feel free to create a thread with a question with a broader angle. thank you

 

[JameScott]

Why are you thanking me?

The Injeel wasn't "special" enough to elaborate in the Quran, Allah says you're welcome?

you will have to specify what the Quran means by injeel and what it's contents are to make that assertion. And if it wasn't worth elaborating, do you care to mention some examples of what you think was "special" enough that Quran elaborated on?

 

[JameScott]

The Church!
The Church exists from the begining , from day one , The Bible is what came into existence 300 years later.

If all manuscripts were to be burned today , we could still make the same Bible from the Church Father letters.

If I understand you correctly, you think the Bible and not the Quran is true, right?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Nothing I like more than a honest and thoughtful poll. This one is not ...

what would you change about this poll?

The simplest and most obvious option might have been to add the options:

• other, and
• none.

 

[JameScott]

Those of a materialist and igtheist ─ that the only manner in which supernatural beings are known to exist is as concepts, notions, things imagined in individual brains.

As a reader, I expect that the Tanakh has some probably-real history, and some probably-accurate social information, amongst all the rest, but as for which is what, I'm largely in the hands of the archaeologists and historians.

But my efforts to read the Qur'an have all foundered on the piecemeal non-sequential presentation. It probably doesn't help, either, that my culture and education all trace back to Europe.

Fair Enough! you are entitled to a perception based on what is before you. I think some evidence is more supportive of facts but does not present the facts themselves. I am inclined to think that the 24 books of the Tanakh are currently found in the bible. Reading those books will prompt you to read the new testament as the story in the Tanakh continues because the promise of God to Abraham was not yet complete. Archaeologists and historians will back up what happened giving more evidence from on their research and findings, but they will seldom create their own. Therefore, for me, the primarily information comes in handy. The Non- sequential presentation of the Quran is challenging to navigate but the 2nd largest religion in the world stands on those writings, making these writings rather interesting.

 

[JameScott]

The simplest and most obvious option might have been to add the options:

• other, and
• none.

Those would make good additions to the poll. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

 

[blü 2]

Fair Enough! you are entitled to a perception based on what is before you. I think some evidence is more supportive of facts but does not present the facts themselves. I am inclined to think that the 24 books of the Tanakh are currently found in the bible. Reading those books will prompt you to read the new testament as the story in the Tanakh continues because the promise of God to Abraham was not yet complete.

Ah, in my terms that would involve abandoning my natural skepticism and believing that supernatural destinies are abroad in human affairs, so that's one reason I don't think that will happen. The other is that while I suspect the stories of Jesus are more likely than not to have a real human at their center, the orthodox accounts of Jesus ─ starting with Mark ─ are a mix of hearsay traditions and a structured Greek manner of storytelling, with many parts designed to show Jesus "fulfilling prophecy" from the Tanakh ─ as distinct from an objective and well-researched biography. The miracles, for instance, are plainly untrue, though in that age the actions of gods in the human world were taken for granted.

And, given a historical Jesus, none of the authors of the NT ever met him, so various oral traditions are involved in the writing. I had to do some homework on oral histories and shennachies when I was writing some Scottish history last century, and if you need a word for the results, 'unreliable' would be a very modest start.

It seems clear to me that only for a few decades was Jesus seen as a follower of the Jewish god. Paul, for example, abandons the covenant of circumcision on his behalf, and by the 4th century it's made official that (despite his constant denials in Paul and all four gospels) Jesus is God, albeit as part of the triune God. (And what kind of God sends [his] 'son' to create a new religion remarkable for its many many centuries of marauding and murderous anti-Semitism?)

 

[LuisDantas]

So the ten commandments are neither true nor meaningful and you're cool with murder and adultery etc etc..?

Murder and adultery are bad things. But that is hardly validation of the commandments, which do suffer from serious ambiguities and internal contradictions and have little to no moral or religious value.