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Which Eastern Religion Makes Most Sense?

Which Eastern religion makes most sense?

  • Buddism

    Votes: 13 25.0%
  • Hindusim

    Votes: 6 11.5%
  • Taoism

    Votes: 4 7.7%
  • Other (please specify)

    Votes: 4 7.7%
  • They all make a great deal of sense.

    Votes: 18 34.6%
  • None of them make sense.

    Votes: 7 13.5%

  • Total voters
    52

Djamila

Bosnjakinja
Saying 'Eastern', in my mind, implies Near, Middle, and Far East.

In my understanding of it, Near East refers to Islamic Europe (Bosnia and Herzegovina, Sandzak of Novi Pazar, Albania, western Turkey, etc.), Middle East refers to Arabia and Persia (Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Iraq, Iran, etc.), and Far East refers to the ethnically-Asian countries (Pakistan, India, China, Indonesia, etc.).

North Africa is never included in the term "Middle East", it's called "North Africa".

At least that's how we were raised to say it.

In either event, Christianity came out of the East - either the generic East or the Middle East, as your Wikipedia map shows.
 

BFD_Zayl

Well-Known Member
im tempted tp start a "which pagan religion makes more sense" thread...but i dun wanna start another bandwagon...it would be interesting though....
 

SoliDeoGloria

Active Member
All you are doing is repeating exactly what you said before, without presenting any facts either. What do you mean by "Eastern"? Are you saying that Christianity came from China or India, etc?

Well here, let me take a quote from someone who is not just of "eastern descent", but one who was born and raised in India. Ravi Zacharias, from his book "Jesus among other gods":

"We are living in a time when sensativities are at the surface, often vented with cutting words. Philosophically, you can believe anything, so long as you do not claim it to be true. Morally, you can practice anything, so long as you do not claim it is a better way. Religiously, you can hold to anything, so long as you do not bring Jesus Christ into it. If a spiritual idea is "eastern", it is granted critical immunity; if "western" it is thoroughly criticized. Thus a journalist can walk into a church and mock it carryings on, but he or she dare not do the same if the ceremony is from the "eastern" fold. Such is the mood at the end of the twentieth century.

A mood can be a dangerous state of mind, because it can crush reason under the weight of feeling. But that is precisely what postmodernism best represents--a mood.

How doe one in a mood such as this communicate the message of Jesus Christ, in which truth and absoluteness are not only assumed, but also sustained?

Well, for starters, let us be sure that Jesus was not western. In fact some of His parables were so eastern that I think much of the west may not have entered into the rigor and humor of what He said. What has happened in the west is that His impact over the centuries has been so felt that the ethos and moral impetus of His message changed the course of western civilization. The western naturalist, in sheer arrogance, does not see this. Now, after Technological progress, wealth and enterprise have so woven themselves around the message of Jesus that popular models of Christianity appear as nothing more than self and greed at the center, with strands of Christian thought at the periphery. This adulteration has rightly merited the severe rebuke of the critic. We would do well to remember, however, what Augustine said: 'We are never to judge a Philosophy by it's abuse. That aside, the way Jesus spoke, the proverbs and stories that He told, and the very context in which he addressed issues was steeped in an eastern idiom. Let us not forget that.

But if the Western world has been guilty of adulterating His message buyond recognition, the eastern world has often forgotten that it has, by fault, left a mass of religious belief, sometimes bizarre, irresponsibly uncriticized. Take, for example, various forms of eastern worship and practice. During the writing of this book, I happened to be at several such settings. In one of these, devotees had a large number of hooks pierced into their bodies. knives were pierced through their faces and small spears through their tongues. Sights like these terrify visitors and children. One has to ask, why do the same thinkers who criticize any western forms of spirituality not take this to task?"

That's what I thought you guys were getting at. As someone of Chinese descent it seems extremely Western-centric to me for people to be calling the Middle East "Eastern" when what the OP was clearly refering to were religions which came from the East, not the Middle East. It would be like if someone asked what our favorite "Western" states were in the U.S. and someone on the East Coast insisted that Missouri is a valid answer because it's in the "Mid-West."

You've got to be kidding me. I'm waiting for "Tu Pac" to come out and start screaming "west siiiiiiiiiide". Are you turning Philosophy into a "turf war" over the word "middle"?! BTW, while you may be of "eastern descent", I must wonder while looking at your prifile if you were born and raised in the U.S. (Washington D.C.). Do you call this facts for backing up your possition. If you want, I could continue to quote the book I quoted before, by someone much more competent and accomplished than I, where he, as someone with true experience with many "eastern" religions, makes comparisons between the life and teachings of Jesus and many other "eastern" religions (Buddhism[BTW, it isn't suprising that the poll spelled it wrong, I wonder if they are of "eastern" descent?] Hinduism, etc.].

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria
 

SoliDeoGloria

Active Member
The area in which (in this case) Christianity originated from was far removed from that of the traditionally ascribed 'Eastern' territories at that time, both geographically and culturally.

Here's some more info you may want to consider:

http://www.nestorian.org/church_of_the_east_in_india.html :

[FONT=Palatino Linotype,serif]Malankara is another name for Kerala, the cradle of Christianity in India. St. Thomas, the Apostle came to Kerala in A.D. 52 and preached the gospel with great success. Not much is known about the early history of these St. Thomas Christians, but two facts stand out clearly. Between the 3rd and the 9th centuries there were waves of immigrants from Mesopotamia to Kerala, and from the early centuries, This Church, with its liturgical center in Edessa, had also claimed its origin from St. Thomas. Thus the East Syrian or Chaldean liturgy was used in Kerala until the 17th century. The SyrianChurch (using the Syriac liturgy) in Kerala was undivided until the advent of the Portuguese.[/FONT]

http://www.webindia123.com/tourism/pilgrim/malayattor.htm

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
Snowbear said:
Many folks don't. But it DID originate in the middle east ;)

That does not make it Eastern if the reference point, geographically speaking, is somewhere in the center of Eurasia.

Geographically, that makes Judaism, Christianity, and Islam "Western" religions. Buddhism and Hinduism and Taoism "Eastern" religions, and Zoroastrianism and the Baha'i Faith "Central" religions.

As a theological reference point, Western religions tend to emphasize the "immanent" aspect of God, where Eastern religions tend to emphasize the "transcendent."

Both are aspects of...whatever you want to call it....God, Existence, the Absolute, but not everyone likes to live in a paradox, so cultures tend to use one more than the other.

I don't know of any scholarly types that regard Christianity as an Eastern religion, though James made good points about the differences between Eastern and Western Christianity.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
BFD_Zayl said:
im tempted tp start a "which pagan religion makes more sense" thread...but i dun wanna start another bandwagon...it would be interesting though....

Oh, why not! It would be a very interesting change of pace, no?
 

BFD_Zayl

Well-Known Member
Booko said:
Oh, why not! It would be a very interesting change of pace, no?
hmmm...ok! ill do it!! whoo hoo! (watch as it falls behined fast and is forgotten about, lol)
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
SoliDeoGloria said:
Well here, let me take a quote from someone who is not just of "eastern descent", but one who was born and raised in India. Ravi Zacharias, from his book "Jesus among other gods":

"We are living in a time when sensativities are at the surface, often vented with cutting words. Philosophically, you can believe anything, so long as you do not claim it to be true. Morally, you can practice anything, so long as you do not claim it is a better way. Religiously, you can hold to anything, so long as you do not bring Jesus Christ into it. If a spiritual idea is "eastern", it is granted critical immunity; if "western" it is thoroughly criticized. Thus a journalist can walk into a church and mock it carryings on, but he or she dare not do the same if the ceremony is from the "eastern" fold. Such is the mood at the end of the twentieth century.

A mood can be a dangerous state of mind, because it can crush reason under the weight of feeling. But that is precisely what postmodernism best represents--a mood.

How doe one in a mood such as this communicate the message of Jesus Christ, in which truth and absoluteness are not only assumed, but also sustained?

Well, for starters, let us be sure that Jesus was not western. In fact some of His parables were so eastern that I think much of the west may not have entered into the rigor and humor of what He said. What has happened in the west is that His impact over the centuries has been so felt that the ethos and moral impetus of His message changed the course of western civilization. The western naturalist, in sheer arrogance, does not see this. Now, after Technological progress, wealth and enterprise have so woven themselves around the message of Jesus that popular models of Christianity appear as nothing more than self and greed at the center, with strands of Christian thought at the periphery. This adulteration has rightly merited the severe rebuke of the critic. We would do well to remember, however, what Augustine said: 'We are never to judge a Philosophy by it's abuse. That aside, the way Jesus spoke, the proverbs and stories that He told, and the very context in which he addressed issues was steeped in an eastern idiom. Let us not forget that.

But if the Western world has been guilty of adulterating His message buyond recognition, the eastern world has often forgotten that it has, by fault, left a mass of religious belief, sometimes bizarre, irresponsibly uncriticized. Take, for example, various forms of eastern worship and practice. During the writing of this book, I happened to be at several such settings. In one of these, devotees had a large number of hooks pierced into their bodies. knives were pierced through their faces and small spears through their tongues. Sights like these terrify visitors and children. One has to ask, why do the same thinkers who criticize any western forms of spirituality not take this to task?"
Your quote and your entire argument seem to be based on some personal stake in labeling Christianity "Eastern" because you believe that "If a spiritual idea is "eastern", it is granted critical immunity; if "western" it is thoroughly criticized."

The OP otoh makes no judgement as to whether "Eastern" or "Western" is better. It just asks us which one out of the (clearly "far") Eastern choices given "makes more sense." So, while your quote is very long it is absolutely irrelevant to the argument at hand.

Some polls/threads actually are not interested in Christianity, hard as that may be for you to accept.


SoliDeoGloria said:
You've got to be kidding me. I'm waiting for "Tu Pac" to come out and start screaming "west siiiiiiiiiide". Are you turning Philosophy into a "turf war" over the word "middle"?! BTW, while you may be of "eastern descent", I must wonder while looking at your prifile if you were born and raised in the U.S. (Washington D.C.). Do you call this facts for backing up your possition. If you want, I could continue to quote the book I quoted before, by someone much more competent and accomplished than I, where he, as someone with true experience with many "eastern" religions, makes comparisons between the life and teachings of Jesus and many other "eastern" religions (Buddhism[BTW, it isn't suprising that the poll spelled it wrong, I wonder if they are of "eastern" descent?] Hinduism, etc.].
When people clearly did not understand my point at all and yet respond beligerantly and with condescension, I must admit that it's difficult to stay civil. But I'll try.

I was not refering to any pride from being from either the East or West Coast. I was using that as an example to point out how these labels are relative, and how there are biased from one point of view. The Mid-West is actually the center of the country, and yet we call it the "Mid-West" because the country started on the East coast and the terminology that we inherited reflects that. Similarly, refering to the area that we call the Middle East as the Middle East comes from a Western-centric world view. Do you really think that countries such as China and India think of Israel and Iraq, etc as "East"? Do you think people in the Middle-East traditionally thought of themselves as "East?"

I refered to my ethnicity to remind you that the (far) East actually exists and that there is evidence of its existence living amongst you, since some of yall seem to have forgotten. I was not claiming any type of special/inherited knowledge (other than awareness of my own existence). One would have thought logic alone would have been sufficient authority in this case. (Apparently not.) So my having been born in this country is again absolutely irrelevant to the argument.

Given the East's existence, and given that the East was the topic of discussion, trying to insert the Middle East into the conversation is ridiculous. (Is it that you just don't like feeling left out?)
 

BFD_Zayl

Well-Known Member
well...anyways i cant create the pagan thread, i keep getting an error, so osmeone else will have to do it if they please.
 

d.

_______
BFD_Zayl said:
well...anyways i cant create the pagan thread, i keep getting an error, so osmeone else will have to do it if they please.

i'll do it, do you want a poll?
 

SoliDeoGloria

Active Member
Booko said:
That does not make it Eastern if the reference point, geographically speaking, is somewhere in the center of Eurasia.

Geographically, that makes Judaism, Christianity, and Islam "Western" religions. Buddhism and Hinduism and Taoism "Eastern" religions, and Zoroastrianism and the Baha'i Faith "Central" religions.

As a theological reference point, Western religions tend to emphasize the "immanent" aspect of God, where Eastern religions tend to emphasize the "transcendent."

Both are aspects of...whatever you want to call it....God, Existence, the Absolute, but not everyone likes to live in a paradox, so cultures tend to use one more than the other.

I don't know of any scholarly types that regard Christianity as an Eastern religion, though James made good points about the differences between Eastern and Western Christianity.

So, where does this "scholarly" assessment place Native American religions, somewhere in limbo?

lilithu said:
Your quote and your entire argument seem to be based on some personal stake in labeling Christianity "Eastern" because you believe that "If a spiritual idea is "eastern", it is granted critical immunity; if "western" it is thoroughly criticized."

Read it again:
Well, for starters, let us be sure that Jesus was not western. In fact some of His parables were so eastern that I think much of the west may not have entered into the rigor and humor of what He said...That aside, the way Jesus spoke, the proverbs and stories that He told, and the very context in which he addressed issues was steeped in an eastern idiom. Let us not forget that.
What he stated about western philosophies/religions being criticized was that it is based on a "mood" and nothing more.

lilithu said:
The OP otoh makes no judgement as to whether "Eastern" or "Western" is better. It just asks us which one out of the (clearly "far") Eastern choices given "makes more sense." So, while your quote is very long it is absolutely irrelevant to the argument at hand.

Some polls/threads actually are not interested in Christianity, hard as that may be for you to accept.

I wasn't the first one to bring Christianity up. Somebody else did and I complimented them for doing so. Then you had to bring race into the issue and start segregating "the middle east" from the "far east" even though they are both very much considered the "east" as hard as that is for you to accept. BTW, did you happen to check out the websites I provided earlier showing what kind of roots Christianity has in the "far east"?

lilithu said:
I was not refering to any pride from being from either the East or West Coast. I was using that as an example to point out how these labels are relative, and how there are biased from one point of view

No you refered to pride from being of "eastern descent"(chinese) and then tried to compare labeling American states to labeling parts of whole continents.

lilithu said:
The Mid-West is actually the center of the country, and yet we call it the "Mid-West" because the country started on the East coast and the terminology that we inherited reflects that.

Thanks for pointing that out. BTW, I happen to currently reside in the "midwest" (Iowa).

lilithu said:
Similarly, refering to the area that we call the Middle East as the Middle East comes from a Western-centric world view. Do you really think that countries such as China and India think of Israel and Iraq, etc as "East"? Do you think people in the Middle-East traditionally thought of themselves as "East?"

Didn't I state that catagorizing this way was based on a "cultural phenomina" and not the facts? All you seem to be doing is affirming that.

lilithu said:
I refered to my ethnicity to remind you that the (far) East actually exists and that there is evidence of its existence living amongst you, since some of yall seem to have forgotten. I was not claiming any type of special/inherited knowledge (other than awareness of my own existence).

Right, because I didn't relaize that when I used the words "western hemishpere" in my OP to this thread:rolleyes: . I still am curious as to how you feel about someone else from the "far east" who is an accomplished author and lecturer ( http://www.rzim.org ) disagreeing with your whole position obviously showing that your position is not all inclusive. On top of that why don't you ask Djamila ( the one actually originally posted that Christianity is considered an eastern religion ) what their assesment is? Oh, that's right, they already given it and it seems to be ignored in this thread while my complimenting her seems to be criticized over and over. Hmmmmmm, I wonder why that is?:confused:

lilithu said:
One would have thought logic alone would have been sufficient authority in this case. (Apparently not.) So my having been born in this country is again absolutely irrelevant to the argument.

Nice copout to emphasizing your "eastern descent" with a "rolling the eyes" smiley being topped by another persons position from "eastern descent". If one's descent or where on is born is "absolutley irrelevent" although you have also emphasized that " I was using that as an example to point out how these labels are relative, and how there are biased from one point of view ", why were you the first one to bring up descent?

lilithu said:
Given the East's existence, and given that the East was the topic of discussion, trying to insert the Middle East into the conversation is ridiculous. (Is it that you just don't like feeling left out?)

Your insistance that your position is based on "facts" or "logic" is just as rediculous given your lack of objective proof of this assesment. Is it that you just wanted to feel special by exclusivating others out of your special group? I thought UU was supposed to be all inclusive? (see both of us can make jabs at personal emotions).

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
We interrupt this debate to bring you my answer to the poll question..........which makes the most sense to you?




My answer: Buddhism :)




Surprised?



Oh, I kid! I kid! Yes, they all make sense. Of course. But the question asked what makes the most sense, and it just makes sense that I would be practicing a belief system that makes the most sense to me. :rainbow1:




Peace,
Mystic
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
Are there any members of the Unification Church (or Family Federation for World Peace) in this community?

Would that be considered an "Eastern Religion"?
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
SoliDeoGloria said:
No you refered to pride from being of "eastern descent"(chinese) and then tried to compare labeling American states to labeling parts of whole continents.
The pride I have of being from eastern descent is that I exist, the heritage of my ancestors exists, the great and many cultures within China and India (and Japan and Korea and Nepal and Thailand and Laos and Vietnam and Indonesia etc) exist, and the OP/thread was refering to those cultures.

I tried to compare labeling continents to states because I thought it would be easier for you to grasp. Once again (and for the last time), if I asked:
"What are your favorite Western states in the U.S.?
A.California
B. Oregon
C. Washington
D. Other
E. All of the Above

It may be appropriate for someone to say "You forgot Utah" or "Arizona." Someone could even make a strong case that Colorado or New Mexico should be included as "Western" states. But if someone said "Missouri" I would want to know why they think that's an appropiate response. And if they responded by saying because it's in the Mid-West and is therefore a Western state, I would have the same response for them as I did for you. That label is an artifact of history and reflects the bias of the labeler. The Mid-West is not the West, except from the perspective of the East coast. The Middle-East is not the East, except from the perspective of Europe and the Americas.

But you know what? You wanna call the Middle-East the East? Fine. For the sake of this argument, let's do that. So then which religions originated from the East and which from the West? We know that every region in the world has produced indigenous/earth-based religions, and there are too many of them to list. So setting those asside:

East (by your definition):
Hinduism
Judaism
Taoism
Jainism
Buddhism
Christianity
Islam
Sikhism
Baha'i

West:
Humanism/Naturalism
Wicca
Scientology



Happy now? :D
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
lilithu said:
Your quote and your entire argument seem to be based on some personal stake in labeling Christianity "Eastern" because you believe that "If a spiritual idea is "eastern", it is granted critical immunity; if "western" it is thoroughly criticized."

The OP otoh makes no judgement as to whether "Eastern" or "Western" is better. It just asks us which one out of the (clearly "far") Eastern choices given "makes more sense." So, while your quote is very long it is absolutely irrelevant to the argument at hand.

Some polls/threads actually are not interested in Christianity, hard as that may be for you to accept.

...

Given the East's existence, and given that the East was the topic of discussion, trying to insert the Middle East into the conversation is ridiculous. (Is it that you just don't like feeling left out?)

Thanks, lilithu. I was wondering why the big effort to make something so obviously linked with Western culture into something Asian. :confused:
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
SoliDeoGloria said:
So, where does this "scholarly" assessment place Native American religions, somewhere in limbo?

Would you kindly stop trying to divert this thread?

Just answer the poll if you wish, and comment on it, if you wish.

If you want to start a new thread, you have as much right as any other RF user to do so. Please do so.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
MysticSang'ha said:
We interrupt this debate to bring you my answer to the poll question..........which makes the most sense to you?

My answer: Buddhism :)

Surprised?

Can't say I am!

But tell me, Mystic, what of the other Eastern religions have you looked into, and what did you like about them also?
 
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