Which evolved first, consciousness or senses

[Runewolf1973]

What is the basis of your claim? That is, what about interaction and evolutionary change makes it so that consciousness is a necessary emergent property?

Everything is interactive via the Fundamental Forces of nature, even a rock or a plant. Through the process of change, various simple forms may over time become more complex and interactive and different mechanisms for interaction may develop...eyes, ears, noses, etc... Eventually primitive brains developed allowing animals to also have a primitive form of awareness thereby increasing their ability to interact with the environment. Later on human brains evolved which allowed for an even more complex from of interaction...awareness of self, a self-interactive state. Consciousness is not a necessary emergent property, but given enough time and the right conditions there is always potential for it to arise because it is really just a more complex form of the same interactive forces found everywhere. The conditions on Earth are just so as to allow for those complex interactions to grow and flourish. Everything in the universe seems to want to interact in some way...we just evolved to interact a little better than other things. Quite literally...interaction is everything.

 

[FearGod]

Can we have an "other" option in the poll please, I'd like to vote but none of the options is correct.

My concern is how do you think of it, just a product of nature and happened to be so
or a creator did it, if you don't know then it'll be fair enough i think.

 

[Altfish]

My concern is how do you think of it, just a product of nature and happened to be so
or a creator did it, if you don't know then it'll be fair enough i think.

But it wasn't
a) Planned and designed
nor was it
b) Just kind of coincidence
and
c) Don't know
is not a satisfactory answer in this case

 

[FearGod]

But it wasn't
a) Planned and designed
nor was it
b) Just kind of coincidence
and
c) Don't know
is not a satisfactory answer in this case

And what is your own option then, if not the product of nature(natural selection and evolution),
not by a creator, then how you explain it?

 

[Pudding]

Senses without consciousness has no value, similarly consciousness without senses has no value.

Senses - a faculty by which the body perceives an external stimulus; one of the faculties of sight, smell, hearing, taste, and touch.
Consciousness - the state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings.

Is that the definition you use for your thread?

Can you give example for "senses without consciousnes" and "consciousness without senses" to explain what you refer to?

It's no value in what sense?

 

[Noitall]

Take away the senses. See what you have.

Take away consciousness. See what you have.

"It's not the bullet that kills you........ It's the hole". -Laurie Anderson -

It probably wasn't the hole either......probably the loss of blood.

 

[atanu]

Senses without consciousness has no value, similarly consciousness without senses has no value....

I do not agree. In sleep soul exists. It is not useless.

 

[FearGod]

Senses - a faculty by which the body perceives an external stimulus; one of the faculties of sight, smell, hearing, taste, and touch.
Consciousness - the state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings.

Is that the definition you use for your thread?

Can you give example for "senses without consciousnes" and "consciousness without senses" to explain what you refer to?

It's no value in what sense?

The baby, has all the senses but not conscious.

 

[Pudding]

The baby, has all the senses but not conscious.

The baby is not in the state of being awake and aware of their surroundings?

 

[atanu]

The thread is working with bizarre defs.

 

[FearGod]

I do not agree. In sleep soul exists. It is not useless.

How you explain that some may die while sleeping due to a gas leakage? if the soul is present then the person
should wake up before being suffocated, what do you think?

 

[FearGod]

The baby is not in the state of being awake and aware of their surroundings?

And he has all the senses.

 

[Pudding]

And he has all the senses.

Do you think the baby is not in the state of being awake and aware of their surroundings?
If you think so, why do you think so?

 

[atanu]

How you explain that some may die while sleeping due to a gas leakage? if the soul is present then the person
should wake up before being suffocated, what do you think?

Probably you have not read what I cited from Holy Quran in an earlier post 38.

 

[FearGod]

Probably you have not read what I cited from Holy Quran in an earlier post 38.

I did, the soul is temporary absent according to the verse . Do you understand it differently and what's your interpretation for it?

 

[FearGod]

Do you think the baby is not in the state of being awake and aware of their surroundings?
If you think so, why do you think so?

Ask a baby.

 

[jeager106]

"It's not the bullet that kills you........ It's the hole". -Laurie Anderson -

It probably wasn't the hole either......probably the loss of blood.

Without the hole there is probably no loss of blood.

 

[atanu]

I did, the soul is temporary absent according to the verse . Do you understand it differently and what's your interpretation for it?

Where does the verse say that soul is absent in deep sleep? It says:

"It is God that takes the souls at death, and those that die not during their sleep. He keeps that (soul) for which He hath ordained death and dismisseth the rest till an appointed term. Verily in this are signs for those who reflect." --39:42

If soul (or whatever that carries a name) was destroyed in sleep then it could not come back as the same person.

 

[atanu]

I repeat that consciousness is not same as mental phenomenon, comprising thoughts and emotions of self and others. Mind does not know the fullness of consciousness, except in meditation.

 

[Pudding]

Ask a baby.

Conscious - aware of and responding to one's surroundings; awake.

You say baby has all the senses but not conscious.
As the definition i provide, does "you say baby is not conscious" can be understand as "you say baby is not aware of and neither responding to their surroundings; you say the baby is not awake" ?

Please explain how baby is not conscious and your definition for "conscious".