Which evolved first,hearing or speaking

[viole]

True, but the question why the ability to produce sound were naturally selected and long after hearing, natural selection doesn't have the answer for it.

Do you think evolution should have deselected the capacity to make sounds? Like moving bushes, breathing, walking,etc. Why, if nobody was listening?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Parsimony]

True, but the question why the ability to produce sound were naturally selected and long after hearing, natural selection doesn't have the answer for it.

There are advantages to sound-based communication over other forms. It allows you to communicate with other members of your species even if they are out of sight or upwind of you. That's plenty of reason for selection to act on it.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Which first evolved and which organism ?

I'm going to go with hearing first....

 

[FearGod]

Could you spell out exactly what you're trying to arrive at in this quest (aka thread)? I just see wet spots on the tree going up higher and higher.

The evolution of Hearing and speech, how to be understood according to natural selection.

 

[Jainarayan]

The evolution of Hearing and speech, how to be understood according to natural selection.

Asked and answered.

 

[FearGod]

Asked and answered.

Creatures weren't in need for speech and lived for so long by hearing, so speech isn't a factor for survival, why it passed to the next generations, will the creatures die for not speaking, reaching the top of the tree.

 

[Jainarayan]

Creatures weren't in need for speech and lived for so long by hearing, so speech isn't a factor for survival, why it passed to the next generations, will the creatures die for not speaking, reaching the top of the tree.

Not all traits are good or bad, or contribute to survival or extinction, or even have a purpose. A trait may enhance a species capabilities but doesn't necessarily contribute to its survival or demise.

 

[FearGod]

Not all traits are good or bad, or contribute to survival or extinction, or even have a purpose. A trait may enhance a species capabilities but doesn't necessarily contribute to its survival or demise.

So we got the ability to speak by coincidence , because evolution is directed by natural selection otherwise it's the work of chances and coincidence and hence you imply that our ability to produce verbal sounds that make frequencies in air was by chance.

 

[Jainarayan]

So we got the ability to speak by coincidence , because evolution is directed by natural selection otherwise it's the work of chances and coincidence and hence you imply that our ability to produce verbal sounds that make frequencies in air was by chance.

Booyah!!!

Yes.

 

[FearGod]

Booyah!!!

Yes.

How did you know that i'm doing so right now.

 

[Jainarayan]

How did you know that i'm doing so right now.

It's like going through a box of chocolates to find the one you like... it takes time to hit it right.

 

[Parsimony]

Creatures weren't in need for speech and lived for so long by hearing, so speech isn't a factor for survival, why it passed to the next generations, will the creatures die for not speaking, reaching the top of the tree.

Some species need sound to communicate and survive effectively. Not all do. So for some, it is a factor for survival and for some it is not. It's all dependent on environmental pressures.

 

[Looncall]

Creatures weren't in need for speech and lived for so long by hearing, so speech isn't a factor for survival, why it passed to the next generations, will the creatures die for not speaking, reaching the top of the tree.

You have hold of the wrong end of the stick.A trait can be an advantage if it allows an organism to survive more easily, not just if it is necessary to survive at all.

 

[FearGod]

You have hold of the wrong end of the stick.A trait can be an advantage if it allows an organism to survive more easily, not just if it is necessary to survive at all.

More easily doesn't mean that the other won't survive, speechless will still do the intercourse except if the oh..eh is needed.

 

[Parsimony]

More easily doesn't mean that the other won't survive, speechless will still do the intercourse except if the oh..eh is needed.

In this particular scenario (where speech carries a survival advantage), those individuals who can speak would eventually out-compete those who cannot. This would lead to an increase in the frequency of speech-enabling genes in the population until all individuals could speak.

 

[FearGod]

In this particular scenario (where speech carries a survival advantage), those individuals who can speak would eventually out-compete those who cannot. This would lead to an increase in the frequency of speech-enabling genes in the population until all individuals could speak.

Where did that gene come from ?

 

[Parsimony]

Where did that gene come from ?

It would have started with a single mutation in an existing gene. Further beneficial mutations (and gene duplications) would have enhance speaking ability progressively through the generations. For this reason, it is likely that speech is controlled by many genes and not just one.

 

[FearGod]

It would have started with a single mutation in an existing gene. Further beneficial mutations (and gene duplications) would have enhance speaking ability progressively through the generations. For this reason, it is likely that speech is controlled by many genes and not just one.

And mutations are random, right
How many thousands of years should pass before speech develop due to mutation, how it is beneficial while still in progress, IOW can't be still naturally selected because it needs thousands of years to show its effect as beneficial for the organism.

 

[Looncall]

And mutations are random, right
How many thousands of years should pass before speech develop due to mutation, how it is beneficial while still in progress, IOW can't be still naturally selected because it needs thousands of years to show its effect as beneficial for the organism.

One does not need sophisticated language to have useful communication using sound. Simply getting another's attention by making a noise would be very useful. Complex language could very well develop gradually.
All-or-nothing thinking is apt to mislead.

 

[FearGod]

One does not need sophisticated language to have useful communication using sound. Simply getting another's attention by making a noise would be very useful. Complex language could very well develop gradually.
All-or-nothing thinking is apt to mislead.

Even the simplest way to produce sound will take thousands of years to be developed, then how it'll be naturally selected while in progress.