Which evolved first, the orbit or the eye?

[Polymath257]

OK, you're great

Mix some unconscious atoms and make for us a superstar, believe me all
the world will be believe that God doesn't exist, go with it, you have a mind
better than the nature's stones, matters, atoms, whatever you like to call it?

Our minds are physical processes in our brains. Our brains are made of matter. None of the individual atoms or molecules making us up is alive nor conscious. Life is the complex interaction between those component chemicals. Consciousness is a process in the brain.

Not all matter is 'stones'. For example, water is matter, as is air. Most of the chemicals we are made of are not solid (although some are).

I have no idea what you are asking when you refer to a superstar.

 

[shunyadragon]

It has first to work and the socket for the eye should be formed and if all is all right then of course the good work will naturally pass to the next generation because it was
beneficial for the species, make sense

I seriously question your wording here and the point your trying to get across. To make sense you need to use understanding and terminology that is scientific, and avoid anthropomorphic concepts.

In the science of evolution if 'it does not work' the resulting genetic variation does not survive. The eye and the socket as well as the associated nerves and muscle work, because of billions of years of evolution for the survival of the result.

 

[shunyadragon]

OK, you're great


Mix some unconscious atoms and make for us a superstar, believe me all
the world will be believe that God doesn't exist, go with it, you have a mind
better than the nature's stones, matters, atoms, whatever you like to call it?

There are not any scientific discoveries nor knowledge of science that could ever prove nor demonstrate God does not exist. There is overwhelming objective verifiable evidence that demonstrates the that there is absolutely no basis for the fundamentalist Biblical view of the nature and history of our physical existence.

Very typical misrepresentation of the science of evolution, and science in general from the non-scientific perspective of ID. What you fail to do is provide a scientific basis on theories and hypothesis that would support the objective verifiable evidence of a Biblical Creationist perspective.

Still waiting . . .

 

[FearGod]

Our minds are physical processes in our brains. Our brains are made of matter. None of the individual atoms or molecules making us up is alive nor conscious. Life is the complex interaction between those component chemicals. Consciousness is a process in the brain.

Not all matter is 'stones'. For example, water is matter, as is air. Most of the chemicals we are made of are not solid (although some are).

I have no idea what you are asking when you refer to a superstar.

Do you really think that water and air existed once earth was born?

 

[FearGod]

I seriously question your wording here and the point your trying to get across. To make sense you need to use understanding and terminology that is scientific, and avoid anthropomorphic concepts.

In the science of evolution if 'it does not work' the resulting genetic variation does not survive. The eye and the socket as well as the associated nerves and muscle work, because of billions of years of evolution for the survival of the result.

Yes it makes sense, it has to work first then naturally it'll be pass to the next generation.

 

[shunyadragon]

Do you really think that water and air existed once earth was born?

Water existed before the earth was formed as planet, and is found throughout our universe. Air? How are you defining air. Layman may call our atmosphere air. Our atmosphere evolved over time since our planet first formed billions of years ago revolving around our sun. The content of the atmosphere changed over time.

 

[Polymath257]

Do you really think that water and air existed once earth was born?

Water certainly did. And so did most of the gases that were present in the atmosphere of the early Earth (methane, ammonia, carbon monoxide, etc). The air as we know it today (with large amounts of oxygen) was formed later, after life started photosynthesis.

The Earth formed fairly late in the history of the universe. There were at least two generations of stars before the Earth and Sun formed. Almost all of the atoms on the Earth (and in our bodies) were formed either inside of stars or when those stars exploded.

 

[FearGod]

There are not any scientific discoveries nor knowledge of science that could ever prove nor demonstrate God does not exist. There is overwhelming objective verifiable evidence that demonstrates the that there is absolutely no basis for the fundamentalist Biblical view of the nature and history of our physical existence.

Very typical misrepresentation of the science of evolution, and science in general from the non-scientific perspective of ID. What you fail to do is provide a scientific basis on theories and hypothesis that would support the objective verifiable evidence of a Biblical Creationist perspective.

Still waiting . . .

Why inserting the bible for this topic?

 

[shunyadragon]

Why inserting the bible for this topic?

. . . because your agenda and that of 'Intelligent Design' is Fundamentalist Biblical Creationism.

The point is clear and specific; You cannot come up with an alternate explanation for the vast amount objective verifiable evidence supporting the science of evolution and billions of years of history of the earth, our solar system and our universe.

By the way your thread is in the category Evolution vs Creationism.

IF you posted the thread in a science category you have to come up with a coherent scientific argument, which so far have failed to do here,

 

[FearGod]

Water certainly did. And so did most of the gases that were present in the atmosphere of the early Earth (methane, ammonia, carbon monoxide, etc). The air as we know it today (with large amounts of oxygen) was formed later, after life started photosynthesis.

The Earth formed fairly late in the history of the universe. There were at least two generations of stars before the Earth and Sun formed. Almost all of the atoms on the Earth (and in our bodies) were formed either inside of stars or when those stars exploded.

Are you really sure that the earth was having water while forming as a planet?
How is that while it was extremely hot?

 

[FearGod]

. . . because your agenda and that of 'Intelligent Design' is Fundamentalist Biblical Creationism.

The point is clear and specific; You cannot come up with an alternate explanation for the vast amount objective verifiable evidence supporting the science of evolution and billions of years of history of the earth, our solar system and our universe.

By the way your thread is in the category Evolution vs Creationism.

IF you posted the thread in a science category you have to come up with a coherent scientific argument, which so far have failed to do here,

God and religion doesn't mean the bible?

 

[shunyadragon]

God and religion doesn't mean the bible?

. . . but Biblical Creationism and Intelligent Design is the basis for your argument. What other basis is there for your argument?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Are you really sure that the earth was having water while forming as a planet?
How is that while it was extremely hot?

Water does not have to be "wet". When the Earth formed the water was most likely locked up within the meteors and planetoids that made the Earth. Much of that water is still in the mantle. There is an example of water in a material that is very dry. In your house you will likely find drywall. That is made of gypsum, a mineral whose chemical formula is CaSO4*2H2O. That means for every molecule of calcium sulfate there are two molecules of water. The gypsum is dried out to anhydrite, crushed, and then mixed with water to form a paste which makes it gypsum again and poured to form drywall. The water in the mantle is far less concentrated that that. Yet since the mantle is so large there is still a huge amount of water in it. The hot early Earth would drive quite a bit of that water out. Once the Earth cooled the oceans would have formed as it condensed from steam.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I wonder if the OP's idea came from this genius here:

Warning, the wearing of protective gear from excessive face palming is highly recommended.

 

[shunyadragon]

Are you really sure that the earth was having water while forming as a planet?
How is that while it was extremely hot?

The answer is yes. The earth was not always that hot it develop from the debri and dust containing water circling the sun and heated up from the internal radioactive decay. The origin of water on the earth is bonded water internally in the earth as it formed, released as the earth cooled, and from meteors that impacted the earth early in the history of the earth There is still a lot of water bonded to minerals in the internal earth.

From: There’s as much water in Earth’s mantle as in all the oceans

There’s as much water in Earth’s mantle as in all the oceans

The deep Earth holds about the same amount of water as our oceans. That’s the conclusion from experiments on rocks typical of those in the mantle transition zone, a global buffer layer 410 to 660 kilometres beneath us that separates the upper from the lower mantle.

“If our estimation is correct, it means there’s a large amount of water in the deep Earth,” says Hongzhan Fei at the University of Bayreuth in Germany. “The total amount of water in the deep Earth is nearly the same as the mass of all the world’s ocean water.”

The results add to mounting evidence that there is much more water than expected beneath us, mostly locked up within the crystals of minerals as ions rather than liquid water.

At least one team has previously discovered water-rich rock fragments in volcanic debris originating from the mantle. Another group has conducted experiments suggesting that the water at these depths was formed here on Earth rather than being delivered to the primordial planet by comets and asteroids.

“The vast amount of water locked inside rocks of this deep region of the mantle will certainly force us to think harder about how it ever got there, or perhaps how it could have always been there since solidification of the mantle,” says Steven Jacobsen of Northwestern University in Illinois, who wasn’t connected with the new research. “It’s a key question about the evolution of the Earth, which extends to extra solar planets as well.”

Model rocks
What Fei and his colleagues have now done is to infer high water content throughout the mantle transition zone through lab experiments on synthetic rocks used to model those typically found in that layer, as well as the one below.

Already, real-world geophysical and seismic measurements have revealed that the viscosity of the mantle transition zone is lower than that of the upper mantle above and the lower mantle below, which extends as deep as 2900 kilometres, right down to Earth’s core.

Through their experiments, Fei and his colleagues have now shown that the measured values of viscosity match those when the ringwoodite rock that dominates the mantle transition zone is saturated with water.

“This fits well with the geophysically observed viscosity in the mantle transition zone,” says Fei. “We therefore conclude that the mantle transition zone should be wet.”

 

[shunyadragon]

Also a description of the water in the earth's core and the origins.

From: Water Deep in Earth's Core May Come from Dust Swirling Around the Sun

Water Deep in Earth's Core May Come from Dust Swirling Around the Sun

Credit: Shutterstock


Where did the building blocks of Earth's first water come from?

At least in part, from a cloud of gas and dust swirling around the sun, new research suggests.


Water is made up of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom, and rocky asteroids likely carried most of that hydrogen to Earth billions of years ago. However, the new research suggests that young Earth also received hydrogen from the solar nebula.

"Nearly one out of every 100 water molecules on Earth came from the solar nebula," researchers wrote in the new study, which was published online Oct. 9 in the Journal of Geophysical Research: Planets.

In the early solar system, this cloud — the material leftover after the sun's formation — contained large amounts of hydrogen. But before this study, researchers hadn't looked at whether the nebula provided much of Earth's hydrogen, they reported. [Photo Timeline: How the Earth Formed]


To find out where Earth's water came from, scientists examined its chemical fingerprints, looking at ratios of hydrogen isotopes — versions of hydrogen with different numbers of neutrons and, therefore, different atomic mass.

The ratio of normal hydrogen and deuterium — a heavier isotope — in ocean water matches the ratio found in water from asteroids, suggesting that Earth's water had asteroid origins. However, hydrogen extracted from the planet's interior, near the region where the mantle meets the core, tells a different tale. Those samples had less deuterium than hydrogen compared with ocean water, pointing to a source other than asteroids, according to the study.

Earth took shape billions of years ago, when smaller asteroids collided and fused into a larger body. As the newborn, still-molten planet formed, it siphoned dust and gas from the solar nebula, the new model suggests. The nebula's hydrogen sank into baby Earth's molten magma, drawn toward its magnetic core. Meanwhile, hydrogen from asteroids lingered in what eventually became the mantle, the researchers explained.

Asteroid impacts continued to bombard Earth and build up its "body," and as they did, they distributed hydrogen with a higher deuterium ratio in the mantle and in Earth's oceans. While this hydrogen makes up most of the planet's water, the scientists concluded that some water owes its formation to hydrogen from the nebula.

What's more, quantities of water are thought to be hidden inside the planet —"roughly two oceans in the mantle and four to five oceans in the core," much of which likely originated from the solar nebula, the scientists reported.

Their findings also hint that similar processes could shape the formation of water on distant exoplanets, lead study author Jun Wu, an assistant research professor in the School of Molecular Sciences and School of Earth and Space Exploration at Arizona State University, said in a statement.

"This model suggests that the inevitable formation of water would likely occur on any sufficiently large exoplanets in extra solar systems," Wu said. "I think this is very exciting," he said.

 

[exchemist]

Water does not have to be "wet". When the Earth formed the water was most likely locked up within the meteors and planetoids that made the Earth. Much of that water is still in the mantle. There is an example of water in a material that is very dry. In your house you will likely find drywall. That is made of gypsum, a mineral whose chemical formula is CaSO4*2H2O. That means for every molecule of calcium sulfate there are two molecules of water. The gypsum is dried out to anhydrite, crushed, and then mixed with water to form a paste which makes it gypsum again and poured to form drywall. The water in the mantle is far less concentrated that that. Yet since the mantle is so large there is still a huge amount of water in it. The hot early Earth would drive quite a bit of that water out. Once the Earth cooled the oceans would have formed as it condensed from steam.

This illustrates the gulf in understanding between most creationists and people who know at least a bit of science. When you get questions as basic as that, it sheds a light on how it is they believe the nonsense they do.

 

[FearGod]

. . . but Biblical Creationism and Intelligent Design is the basis for your argument. What other basis is there for your argument?

If I believe that God designed evolution to happen, then what that has to do with the bible.
have you been created in your mother's womb or you have been evolved?

 

[FearGod]

Also a description of the water in the earth's core and the origins.

From: Water Deep in Earth's Core May Come from Dust Swirling Around the Sun

Water Deep in Earth's Core May Come from Dust Swirling Around the Sun

Credit: Shutterstock


Where did the building blocks of Earth's first water come from?

At least in part, from a cloud of gas and dust swirling around the sun, new research suggests.


Water is made up of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom, and rocky asteroids likely carried most of that hydrogen to Earth billions of years ago. However, the new research suggests that young Earth also received hydrogen from the solar nebula.

"Nearly one out of every 100 water molecules on Earth came from the solar nebula," researchers wrote in the new study, which was published online Oct. 9 in the Journal of Geophysical Research: Planets.

In the early solar system, this cloud — the material leftover after the sun's formation — contained large amounts of hydrogen. But before this study, researchers hadn't looked at whether the nebula provided much of Earth's hydrogen, they reported. [Photo Timeline: How the Earth Formed]


To find out where Earth's water came from, scientists examined its chemical fingerprints, looking at ratios of hydrogen isotopes — versions of hydrogen with different numbers of neutrons and, therefore, different atomic mass.

The ratio of normal hydrogen and deuterium — a heavier isotope — in ocean water matches the ratio found in water from asteroids, suggesting that Earth's water had asteroid origins. However, hydrogen extracted from the planet's interior, near the region where the mantle meets the core, tells a different tale. Those samples had less deuterium than hydrogen compared with ocean water, pointing to a source other than asteroids, according to the study.

Earth took shape billions of years ago, when smaller asteroids collided and fused into a larger body. As the newborn, still-molten planet formed, it siphoned dust and gas from the solar nebula, the new model suggests. The nebula's hydrogen sank into baby Earth's molten magma, drawn toward its magnetic core. Meanwhile, hydrogen from asteroids lingered in what eventually became the mantle, the researchers explained.

Asteroid impacts continued to bombard Earth and build up its "body," and as they did, they distributed hydrogen with a higher deuterium ratio in the mantle and in Earth's oceans. While this hydrogen makes up most of the planet's water, the scientists concluded that some water owes its formation to hydrogen from the nebula.

What's more, quantities of water are thought to be hidden inside the planet —"roughly two oceans in the mantle and four to five oceans in the core," much of which likely originated from the solar nebula, the scientists reported.

Their findings also hint that similar processes could shape the formation of water on distant exoplanets, lead study author Jun Wu, an assistant research professor in the School of Molecular Sciences and School of Earth and Space Exploration at Arizona State University, said in a statement.

"This model suggests that the inevitable formation of water would likely occur on any sufficiently large exoplanets in extra solar systems," Wu said. "I think this is very exciting," he said.

So what?, water came to earth and then we have the stones and water(mud)

 

[FearGod]

I wonder if the OP's idea came from this genius here:

Warning, the wearing of protective gear from excessive face palming is highly recommended.

Keep wondering.