Which evolved first, the orbit or the eye?

[FearGod]

The mutations that caused the evolution of the orbit in the skull was first or the mutations
that caused the evolution of the eye was first.

Did the mutation of the orbit and the mutation of the eye occurred at the same time
and hence the eye was fixed in the orbit during long period of time.

Was it a design or was it a luck?

 

[Polymath257]

As with most things along this line, they evolved together. Single genes often control the development of more than one system.

 

[leibowde84]

The mutations that caused the evolution of the orbit in the skull was first or the mutations
that caused the evolution of the eye was first.

Did the mutation of the orbit and the mutation of the eye occurred at the same time
and hence the eye was fixed in the orbit during long period of time.

Was it a design or was it a luck?

The orbital lobe evolved first in ocean life, which eventually let to eyes in things like fishes. By the time life moved to land masses, the eye was already evolved. Thus, the eye had already evolved in our ancestors long before human beings existed.

 

[leibowde84]

The mutations that caused the evolution of the orbit in the skull was first or the mutations
that caused the evolution of the eye was first.

Did the mutation of the orbit and the mutation of the eye occurred at the same time
and hence the eye was fixed in the orbit during long period of time.

Was it a design or was it a luck?

It wasn't "luck". It was evolution by natural selection. Mutations in DNA caused some creatures to be able to see light versus dark. That made them more likely to reproduce and pass along those genes. The better the eye, the more likely you are to reproduce. That is how evolution works over billions of years.

 

[FearGod]

As with most things along this line, they evolved together. Single genes often control the development of more than one system.

Evolution doesn't develop anything, this word shouldn't exist in the process of evolution.
species evolve due to mutations that alter the DNA and selection done by natural selection,
this is how all species have been evolved from a single bacteria.

 

[leibowde84]

Evolution doesn't develop anything, this word shouldn't exist in the process of evolution.
species evolve due to mutations that alter the DNA and selection done by natural selection,
this is how all species have been evolved from a single bacteria.

You are confused. He said that genes control development, not evolution.

 

[FearGod]

It wasn't "luck". It was evolution by natural selection. Mutations in DNA caused some creatures to be able to see light versus dark. That made them more likely to reproduce and pass along those genes. The better the eye, the more likely you are to reproduce. That is how evolution works over billions of years.

Exactly, but was the hole in the fish's head first evolved or the eye first evolved?

 

[FearGod]

You are confused. He said that genes control development, not evolution.

And we're talking about evolution and not development.

 

[leibowde84]

And we're talking about evolution and not development.

You can't talk about one without the other. Evolution changes DNA, which alters genes, which effects development.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The orbital lobe evolved first in ocean life, which eventually let to eyes in things like fishes. By the time life moved to land masses, the eye was already evolved. Thus, the eye had already evolved in our ancestors long before human beings existed.

I think that the OP was referring to the eye socket when he said "orbit".

I would say that the eye obviously evolved first. Eyes started as simple light sensitive spots. The evolution of the eye is well understood. In fact the eye has evolved independently several times, depending upon how one defines what an "eye" is. If the eye is defined as a light sensitive patch and everything that has followed from it then the "eye" evolved once. If one demands a bit more then it has evolved independently several times:

Evolution of the eye - Wikipedia

As usual the problem lies largely with a poorly formed question.

 

[Nakosis]

The mutations that caused the evolution of the orbit in the skull was first or the mutations
that caused the evolution of the eye was first.

Did the mutation of the orbit and the mutation of the eye occurred at the same time
and hence the eye was fixed in the orbit during long period of time.

Was it a design or was it a luck?

Through natural selection, different types of eyes have emerged in evolutionary history -- and the human eye isn't even the best one, from some standpoints. Because blood vessels run across the surface of the retina instead of beneath it, it's easy for the vessels to proliferate or leak and impair vision. So, the evolution theorists say, the anti-evolution argument that life was created by an "intelligent designer" doesn't hold water: If God or some other omnipotent force was responsible for the human eye, it was something of a botched design.
Evolution: Library: Evolution of the Eye

 

[FearGod]

You can't talk about one without the other. Evolution changes DNA, which alters genes, which effects development.

The species evolve and it takes millions of years for change to occur,
development was the final result and not the process.

 

[FearGod]

Through natural selection, different types of eyes have emerged in evolutionary history -- and the human eye isn't even the best one, from some standpoints. Because blood vessels run across the surface of the retina instead of beneath it, it's easy for the vessels to proliferate or leak and impair vision. So, the evolution theorists say, the anti-evolution argument that life was created by an "intelligent designer" doesn't hold water: If God or some other omnipotent force was responsible for the human eye, it was something of a botched design.
Evolution: Library: Evolution of the Eye

So due to the bad luck we got a less developed eyes and due to the good luck we got
a superior developed brain.

 

[shunyadragon]

The mutations that caused the evolution of the orbit in the skull was first or the mutations
that caused the evolution of the eye was first.

Did the mutation of the orbit and the mutation of the eye occurred at the same time
and hence the eye was fixed in the orbit during long period of time.

Was it a design or was it a luck?

There is no luck nor chance in evolution. Like the brain and the skull they evolved together.

Intelligent Design remain a hookus pookus phony science. God Creates and does not design, because God is not an engineer.

 

[Polymath257]

Evolution doesn't develop anything, this word shouldn't exist in the process of evolution.
species evolve due to mutations that alter the DNA and selection done by natural selection,
this is how all species have been evolved from a single bacteria.

Yes, and again, single genes often control the development of more than one system. So it is never a case of 'first and second', but of 'together'.

 

[Polymath257]

And we're talking about evolution and not development.

But the evolution is of the genes controlling development.

 

[Nakosis]

So due to the bad luck we got a less developed eyes and due to the good luck we got
a superior developed brain.

There's cause, which we call luck because we can't yet identify the cause.

There were Neanderthals and Denisovans other branches of humanoids different DNA though similar enough to allow cross breeding. They can identify their separate DNA and identify where the commingling likely took place.

Superior, inferior, I don't know. It's just the DNA we ended up with for better or worse. We homosapiens almost didn't survive. Most species of "man" did not.

These other species, God just didn't design them well? I assume except for some local disaster, they'd be here instead of us.

Thousands of species become extinct each year. If there is an intelligent designer they seem to get it wrong more often than right. God is maybe a mad scientist who haphazardly tosses elements of life together and hopes something survives.

I don't assume homo sapien is the final evolution or that we can even avoid extinction. We just happen to be here now with an ability to ask such questions.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So due to the bad luck we got a less developed eyes and due to the good luck we got
a superior developed brain.

WE got differently evolved eyes. "Luck" is almost always a strawman argument by creationists.

 

[shunyadragon]

Evolution doesn't develop anything, this word shouldn't exist in the process of evolution.
species evolve due to mutations that alter the DNA and selection done by natural selection,
this is how all species have been evolved from a single bacteria.

First, populations evolve, and not individuals.

Second, the word 'develop,' even though not totally accurate is far superior to your use of design.

 

[exchemist]

The mutations that caused the evolution of the orbit in the skull was first or the mutations
that caused the evolution of the eye was first.

Did the mutation of the orbit and the mutation of the eye occurred at the same time
and hence the eye was fixed in the orbit during long period of time.

Was it a design or was it a luck?

You ought to realise that the eye is an extremely ancient feature of huge numbers of organisms. The eye we have is a descendent of the eye that other vertebrates such as fish have. My guess is the fish eye and ours evolved from an eye in a pre-fish chordate that did not yet have a skull.

The mollusc eye of course has no "orbit" and nor does the arthropod eye.

Your false antithesis of "design" versus "luck" is extremely ignorant and irritating, by the way. It is impossible to believe that you do not by now know perfectly well that evolution is neither design nor "luck". Look up natural selection. I am not wasting my time explaining it to you, as no educated person has any excuse at all for not knowing what that is and how it works.