Then the cause of his existence is necessity and he's not an uncaused cause contrary to what many other theists say.
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Which existed first "something" or "nothing"?
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
Because the scientific community is not only well aware of this possibility that is true in various untested (and currently untestable) theories beyond the standard model, but also aware of the fact that such conclusions are mathematically derived solutions without empirical support. Actually, I don't know if it is fair to say that the poster you were commenting on hasn't submitted said findings BECAUSE of this reason, as apart from anything else I'm not sure if the poster is aware that the scientific community is divided on whether it is true and united in the view that we can't demonstrate it to be true (at least currently) even if it is. I know you are aware (as you demonstrated the post you made prior to the one quoted above), but I suspect the individual you are responding to isn't. Also, even in theories which entail indivisible units of space, there can exist infinite "space" (the universe can have expanded into an existing infinite "space", rather than creating "space" as it expanded into...well, an unanswerable).
If only somebody had at least put us on the steps to resolving Zeno's paradox such that we could describe how an infinite series could converge! I'll get to work on it, and let you know when I've developed this calculus of infinitesimals that nobody has yet investigated.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
So it is "us" to whom universe becomes gibberish, not to science. Science knows it clearly and won't tell us.
What is your source of "science will eventually find an answer"? Is it a blind faith in science which science does not claim to have?
Regards
prometheus11
Well-Known Member
Guy threep, it takes faith to believe in a creator god since the science doesn't get us there. If believing in a particular creator had a measurable affect on the created, then we would have something to test.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Science is an ongoing process of discovery and re-evaluation. Religious belief isn't.
ThePainefulTruth
Romantic-Cynic
There is absolutely no evidence from before the Big Bang at all. Atheists and theists alike, if they're honest
, have to admit the other side of the God issue (no God or hands off God) can't be ruled out. Of course revealed theism is toast.
prometheus11
Well-Known Member
Correct. God is possible. So are invisible fairies.
ThePainefulTruth
Romantic-Cynic
If you want to call whatever caused the universe a fairy, then yeah, I guess so.
prometheus11
Well-Known Member
With zero evidence and an infinity of possible answers, it hardly matters.
ThePainefulTruth
Romantic-Cynic
There's only two possible answers: a conscious will caused the universe, or it came to be spontaneously. There's no evidence for or against either, but what we name that conscious cause is basically irrelevant.
prometheus11
Well-Known Member
I'm not willing to take such a leap of faith as narrowing an infinite field down to just two possibilities when there is precisely ZERO evidence.
Awkward Fingers
Omphaloskeptic
And what is "possible" worth?
It's possible, that any building I go into, the first electrical outlet I see will actually dispense raspberry jam, if I stick a knife in it, because it's "possible" someone put a fake outlet there, with a jam reservoir behind it.
The fact that this is possible, somehow still does not lead me to run around sticking knives in electrical sockets...
It's possible, that any building I go into, the first electrical outlet I see will actually dispense raspberry jam, if I stick a knife in it, because it's "possible" someone put a fake outlet there, with a jam reservoir behind it.
The fact that this is possible, somehow still does not lead me to run around sticking knives in electrical sockets...
prometheus11
Well-Known Member
I assume, Awkward, that you would rely upon a few billion data points collected from ALL your previous experiences to make your determination on elec sockets and likely ham dispensers.
ThePainefulTruth
Romantic-Cynic
Exactly, zero evidence either way. And what other possibilities are you talking about? I hope this isn't going to descend into an argument about the relativity of perception. If you want to argue for chaos, please just say so and we'll be done.
Not without purposely being rigged to do so. Argument ad absurdum.
prometheus11
Well-Known Member
Why in the world would I argue for chaos when there is zero evidence and an infinite number of possible answers? Lol
ThePainefulTruth
Romantic-Cynic
The question is, what other possible answers, God going by the name of Fred? Either the universe was created or it wasn't.
prometheus11
Well-Known Member
How do you know? There is zero evidence, do what sense does It make to make any determination. What if it is some process beyond your understanding and beyond creation or non creation?
Awkward Fingers
Omphaloskeptic
And your talking about possibility.
Is it impossible for a rigging like that to be set up?
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Perhaps....but is also true that religious practice is an ongoing process of discovery and evaluation...and plain scientific belief isn't...
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Spiny Norman said: ↑
Science is an ongoing process of discovery and re-evaluation. Religious belief isn't.
Regards
Science is an ongoing process of discovery and re-evaluation. Religious belief isn't.
Religion is in waves sometimes like one and another times that converts to 0 or looks like 0 or another symbol of one and then again o , to humans it could look like o yet it is ONE. It is in absolute terms in reality yet human society could see its temporary face.
Regards