Which existed first "something" or "nothing"?

[prometheus11]

As far as we know.......and we probably will never really know. But yes, it seems that would be so. Our universe did have a beginning. But that should not be equated to matter/energy having a beginning.

Not really. Not necessarily.

Time and before/after simply doesn't apply to the universe before expansion.

There was a hot, dense point. (Time is irrelevant), then it inflated and then that inflated "lump" expanded and is continuing to expand.

 

[Milton Platt]

Not really. Not necessarily.

Time and before/after simply doesn't apply to the universe before expansion.

There was a hot, dense point. (Time is irrelevant), then it inflated and then that inflated "lump" expanded and is continuing to expand.

I think we are actually agreeing.......our universe began with that hot, dense point. What was before cannot be known. And I have to use the word before to make sense here, even though there was no "before" with regards to time.

 

[prometheus11]

Gotcha. I often have to correct believers who say the universe had a beginning or "came into existence."

 

[Milton Platt]

Gotcha. I often have to correct believers who say the universe had a beginning or "came into existence."

I'm a believer....I believe I'll have another glass of wine.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Interesting that you mention the ' cause and effect ' process because that is a biblical concept - Galatians 6:7. The law of cause and effect was set in motion by our Creator.
Our Creator - Psalms 90:2 - has No beginning / No start so there was No non-existence, but through our Creator's existence and through His dynamic energy ( strength and power ) Isaiah 40:26 - the tangible material realm came into existence after the spirit invisible realm. So, there was a beginning for creation, Not from No where but due to the un-created Creator's power and strength ( energy )- Psalms 104:30, and according to Isaiah 45:18 God formed Earth to be inhabited. Inhabited forever - Psalms 37:29; Matthew 5:5

Ok...I understand that there is an underlying unity of spirit and matter in that matter is formed of spiritual energy in the form of spherical standing waves. How do we know this...If you take zpe for example...it is omnipresent, contains infinite energy density. and there are virtual electron and positron particles bubbling up from the quantum vacuum zpe only to dissolve again.. And take the LHC for example....particles made to collide at extremely high velocity always convert to energy before becoming sub-particles, etc... Thus it is evident that particles are made of energy....and the underlying source of the energy of the particles is the zero point energy field, and this energy is of infinite density, is omnipresent, and is a vibrational frequency continuum.... The reality represented by the concept of spirit is also said to be of infinite power, and is omnipresent....so it is my understanding that matter comes from zpe and since zpe has the attributes of spirit...these are just two names for the same thing...if you have any understanding of harmonics...all sorts of appropriate mixing of frequencies will produce new frequencies of higher or lower side bands and shapes...pulses square, triangular, etc.. Infinite possibilities...the cause is the spirit/zpe...the effect is the material and transcendent universe...but the two are one... There was never a beginning of the one...

 

[Thief]

Not really. Not necessarily.

Time and before/after simply doesn't apply to the universe before expansion.

There was a hot, dense point. (Time is irrelevant), then it inflated and then that inflated "lump" expanded and is continuing to expand.

time is not a force or substance

 

[prometheus11]

time is not a force or substance

Right.

 

[ArtieE]

Ok...I understand that there is an underlying unity of spirit and matter in that matter is formed of spiritual energy in the form of spherical standing waves. How do we know this...If you take zpe for example...it is omnipresent, contains infinite energy density. and there are virtual electron and positron particles bubbling up from the quantum vacuum zpe only to dissolve again.. And take the LHC for example....particles made to collide at extremely high velocity always convert to energy before becoming sub-particles, etc... Thus it is evident that particles are made of energy....and the underlying source of the energy of the particles is the zero point energy field, and this energy is of infinite density, is omnipresent, and is a vibrational frequency continuum...

So put simply you seem to need to anthropomorphize energy fields while others don't have that need.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

So put simply you seem to need to anthropomorphize energy fields while others don't have that need.

Haha...ArtieE...what do you understand by the concept...anthropomorphize...your accusation doesn't make any sense? Show me precisely how you think I have anthropomorphized energy fields?

 

[ArtieE]

Haha...ArtieE...what do you understand by the concept...anthropomorphize...your accusation doesn't make any sense? Show me precisely how you think I have anthropomorphized energy fields?

Spirit is defined as the "immaterial or sentient part of a person" and anthropomorphize means to ascribe human form or attributes.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Spirit is defined as the "immaterial or sentient part of a person" and anthropomorphize means to ascribe human form or attributes.

Three things....first where did I define spirit as "immaterial or sentient part of a person".....quote my precise words or point out the post in which I made this claim?

Secondly...whoever made this comment does not understand the actual reality meant to be represented by the concept of spirit...

And thirdly...even this is not an example of anthropomorphizing...an example of anthropomorhizing would be if some one believe that God had a human form...eg..an old man with a white beard...

 

[psychoslice]

What the hell is nothing, and what the hell is something ??.

 

[ArtieE]

Three things....first where did I define spirit as "immaterial or sentient part of a person".....quote my precise words or point out the post in which I made this claim?

Read again what I said. I said "is defined as". See merriam-webster.

And thirdly...even this is not an example of anthropomorphizing...an example of anthropomorhizing would be if some one believe that God had a human form...eg..an old man with a white beard...

No. See merriam-webster again. To attribute human form or personality.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Read again what I said. I said "is defined as". See merriam-webster.No. See merriam-webster again. To attribute human form or personality.

I know Artie...but it isn't used the way you used it....for example you are anthropomorhizing if you ascribe human traits to a non-human...but the sentient part of a human is human...and the non-material part presently incarnate which is generally understood to be the soul is also a human attribute... For example... Walt Disney cartoon animal creations that spoke and behaved like humans were anthropomorphic...as in attributing human emotions such as anger, lust, etc.. to God or a tree... but I've never heard of anyone claiming energy has human traits?

And so are you not able to find where I've defined spirit in the way you claim I implied it....."immaterial or sentient part of a person".?

 

[psychoslice]

I know Artie...but it isn't used the way you used it....for example you are anthropomorhizing if you ascribe human traits to a non-human...but the sentient part of a human is human...and the non-material part presently incarnate which is generally understood to be the soul is also a human attribute... For example... Walt Disney cartoon animal creations that spoke and behaved like humans were anthropomorphic...as in attributing human emotions such as anger, lust, etc.. to God or a tree... but I've never heard of anyone claiming energy has human traits?

And so are you not able to find where I've defined spirit in the way you claim I implied it....."immaterial or sentient part of a person".?

Sorry I have no idea what your talking about.

 

[ArtieE]

And so are you not able to find where I've defined spirit in the way you claim I implied it....."immaterial or sentient part of a person".?

Never said you defined it or claimed you implied it. Said "is defined as". Get it yet?

Oxforddictionaries.com: Anthropomorphism: The attribution of human characteristics or behavior to a god..."

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Sorry I have no idea what your talking about.

You'll have to go back to the first exchange between ArtieE and myself based on my post #805..and read it through to get it...enjoy..

 

[psychoslice]

You'll have to go back to the first exchange between ArtieE and myself based on my post #805..and read it through to get it...enjoy..

Na, too much for me. but thanks .

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Its like asking why a rock falls down a mountain. There's no will behind that that's just the laws of physics at work. In the end its a how and there s no why

Indeed. It's like asking who makes the waves break on the shore or the clouds make rain.

 

[Thief]

What the hell is nothing, and what the hell is something ??.

hell would be that nothing (you)....
having realized you could have been something