Which existed first "something" or "nothing"?

[viole]

Just to be on record, I'm not opposed to the theory of evolution directed by a conscious force but i'm not convinced either and im ok with that.
.

I agree. To believe that the evolutionary process has been guided by supernatural forces makes a mockery of evolution. And of any other scientific fact.

It is the equivalent of believing that planets are kept in orbit by invisible angels.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Walter Russell]

I agree. To believe that the evolutionary process has been guided by supernatural forces makes a mockery of evolution. And of any other scientific fact.

It is the equivalent of believing that planets are kept in orbit by invisible angels.

Ciao

- viole

I think you mistook my meaning.
I do believe in a creator. Just not convinced in evolution as is currently prescribed and politics do play a role in science.

Spirit is the cause and creation is the effect.
As long as science refuses to try and understand the cause, it will never fully understand the effect.

 

[ArtieE]

Spirit is the cause and creation is the effect.

What's the cause of the spirit? Why is there a spirit as opposed to no spirit?

 

[Walter Russell]

What's the cause of the spirit? Why is there a spirit as opposed to no spirit?

Mind is actually a better word for it than spirit and theres no need for a cause of mind because mind isn't a product of time.

Time like space is a creation of motion. Mind is knowing and still.

The reason there is a mind is because nothing is created without it.

Every man made thing existed in a persons mind before it existed in material. The car in the thought of man is the cause of the effect which is the car.

The universe and everything in it is the product of gods mind.

No spirit or no mind, means no creator, which means no creation. No cause=No effect

 

[ArtieE]

The reason there is a mind is because nothing is created without it.

But why is there a mind capable of creating something instead of no mind?

 

[Willamena]

But why is there a mind capable of creating something instead of no mind?

"No mind" is nothing. Nothing doesn't exist.

 

[paarsurrey]

That because you lack education in science, and have no idea what theory and evidence.
If you understood the very basic of science at all, you would know that science don't deal with "irrefutable proof", because science is only interested in verifiable and testable EVIDENCES.
I keep telling you time and time again that science deal with more evidences than proofs. Mathematicians deal with proofs and proving, scientists are mostly interested in evidences.
Proof is mathematical equations or mathematical models.
You have been here for 4 or 5 years, and you still cannot bring yourself to understand what theory is or the distinction between evidence and proof.
You have heard of "stubborn ignorance"? Well, I am afraid you got this in spades. You are sadly unable to learn.

Never-mind, you lack education of the truthful religion.
Regards

 

[Walter Russell]

But why is there a mind capable of creating something instead of no mind?

Man, don't I wish I had all the answers :/

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Never-mind, you lack education of the truthful religion.
Regards

Check and mate

 

[gnostic]

Never-mind, you lack education of the truthful religion.

If "truth" in religion involved make-believe superstition, then I was rather forgo it, since there are no "truths" in blind faith.

Faith and superstition are one and the same, because they both have the same characteristics: delusion, fear and ignorance.

And you still don't understand the basic in science.

I will take evidences in naturalism and reality over your religious (nonexistent) "truth" any day of the year.

 

[paarsurrey]

If "truth" in religion involved make-believe superstition, then I was rather forgo it, since there are no "truths" in blind faith.
Faith and superstition are one and the same, because they both have the same characteristics: delusion, fear and ignorance.
And you still don't understand the basic in science.
I will take evidences in naturalism and reality over your religious (nonexistent) "truth" any day of the year.

I don't have any blindfaith and I don't have any superstition with me.
It is the non-believers of G-d who leap in the dark. Please

Regards

 

[gnostic]

I don't have any blindfaith and I don't have any superstition with me.

Of course you have faith, paarsurrey. You cannot possibly follow Islam, without faith.

You accept Muhammad's words without question as being the same as the words of Allah. That's called "faith".

You accept the Qur'an being the words of Allah. Again, that takes faith.

You believe that Muhammad did encounter the archangel Gabriel, even though there are no evidences to support the angel existence or the visit. That, again, is pure faith.

You being a Ahmadi, then you believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmadi is the 2nd messiah, again without doubt, without question. That's faith.

And you believes in God, angels, Jinns and talking ants, therefore you do believe in superstitions.

You believe that God created everything, then that mean both blind faith and superstition. It is also blind faith and superstition to believe in the afterlife, resurrection, eternal rewards in paradise and imprisonment and torment in hell.

Sorry to burst your bubble, paarsurrey, but they are all you have - blind faith and superstition.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

That's nothing....I know people who have blind faith in the big bang theory....something from nothing...

 

[idav]

That's nothing....I know people who have blind faith in the big bang theory....something from nothing...

Thing is science doesn't require faith, religion does.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Thing is science doesn't require faith, religion does.

You are speaking for yourself.......my religious practice does not involve faith. Science does involve faith...take big bang theory....most of the true believers know that the why and how existence came into existence from non-existence is not known, but take it as a matter of fact that it did...

 

[idav]

You are speaking for yourself.......my religious practice does not involve faith. Science does involve faith...take big bang theory....most of the true believers know that the why and how existence came into existence from non-existence is not known, but take it as a matter of fact that it did...

Nothing about the Big Bang says something came from nothing, if anything it says something from something. Doesn't take faith because we can literally look back in time. You don't get better observable evidence than looking back in time.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Nothing about the Big Bang says something came from nothing, if anything it says something from something. Doesn't take faith because we can literally look back in time. You don't get better observable evidence than looking back in time.

There are some who accept something pre-existing the big bang....but not all....read this thread if you want proof... And....you are not looking back in time....you are stuck in the here and now looking at other stuff in the here and now.... No one can see anything other than the here and now...

 

[idav]

There are some who accept something pre-existing the big bang....but not all....read this thread if you want proof... And....you are not looking back in time....you are stuck in the here and now looking at other stuff in the here and now.... No one can see anything other than the here and now...

I'm not talking about what some say in talking about the Big Bang.

When you see a star your seeing it in its younger years.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I'm not talking about what some say in talking about the Big Bang.

When you see a star your seeing it in its younger years.

In which case you would need to show precisely what preexisted the big bang and its form....otherwise you just believe on faith...

We are not talking about temporary forms....but about permanent reality....the incoming mass/energy impacting on local mass/energy are all in the same here and now...eternal..

 

[idav]

In which case you would need to show precisely what preexisted the big bang and its form....otherwise you just believe on faith...

We are not talking about temporary forms....but about permanent reality....the incoming mass/energy impacting on local mass/energy are all in the same here and now...eternal..

What are you talking about, why assume further than we can observe? Well we can if we want but science can't do that, only imaginations can go any further.