Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
Q. Number of four footed philanthropists?
Answer: Nil
Q. Number of human philanthropist organizations are there around the world?
Answer: This list exceeds the character limit for this post.
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Which is a Better Foundation for Morality, Nature or Belief in God?
- Thread starter Enoughie
- Start date
Q. Number of four footed philanthropists?
Answer: Nil
Q. Number of human philanthropist organizations are there around the world?
Answer: This list exceeds the character limit for this post.
McBell
Unbound
It seems you do not understand the question.
I shall present it one time in hopes that you will be able to understand it:
How about you present something that supports your claim?
Now, just so we are clear, merely making more empty claims does not lend support to your empty claims.
Now I understand that you are used to speaking to your choir.
Just so you know, I am not in your choir, you will have to actually support your claims.
sky dancer
Active Member
IMO, Buddhism is the best choice for morality. Belief in God is not necessary to live an ethical life.
Humans kill for pleasure.
They call it sport hunting, or sometimes they just call it McDonalds or Filet Magnon.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
i believe you are intelligent enough to know that the examples i have given show a vast difference between animal behavior and human morality
we live by laws that forbid us to hurt another of our kind, they do not. Morally, we consider violent aggressive acts to be socially unacceptable, they do not.
sky dancer
Active Member
For the reasons you mention about cats, that they kill sometimes just for pleasure, is why you never see cats at a Buddhist temple.
McBell
Unbound
Now you are merely exposing your ignorance of animal behaviors.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
a 'pecking order' exists among all animals
they have to fight each other to establish the pecking order...the most aggressive animals are at the top and the weaker at the bottom. When we act this way its called 'bullying' and it socially unacceptable.
McBell
Unbound
thank you for furthering my point.
Orias
Left Hand Path
Ah, but lions do not kill lions.
So I would change that into, "when we stop thinking we are something we are not".
Obviously, Man's intellectual and spiritual development has lead him to be the most vicious animal of all, sometimes better but more often worse than those that walk on all four.
waitasec
Veteran Member
because they do not live by the same standard as we do...
one thing is for sure....if i were to compare our moral standards to animals...they don't lie.
BruceDLimber
Well-Known Member
Pegg,
Is there a reason you're ignoring my reply here: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2470154-post43.html ?
You can't deal with arguments that are based on reason?
____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and freedom
Is there a reason you're ignoring my reply here: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2470154-post43.html ?
You can't deal with arguments that are based on reason?
____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and freedom
That's brilliant pespective! Thank you.
waitasec
Veteran Member
Noaidi
slow walker
Not all animal groups are governed by aggression. We can watch wolves and chimps on the Discovery Channel and see instances of aggression and assume they are the norm (after all, it makes for good TV). If you read the research conducted on these animals over extended periods of time (and in the case of chimps, continuously over several decades), a more accurate picture emerges - one of co-operation, altruism and mutual respect.
This is why I asked you whether you had studied animal behaviour. The only documented case you gave was from 'Meerkat Manor', which is hardly representative of ethological studies over a spectrum of species.
I mentioned a couple of authors to you on wolf behaviour. One that I would recommend is Shaun Ellis. He spent 2 years with a wolf pack in Idaho and learned first hand about how wolves treat each other. When I say he spent 2 years with a wolf pack, I don't mean he was an outside observer - I mean he was actually part of the pack and had to follow the rules as one of them. In one instance, one of the members saved him from a bear attack. If you want to learn about moral behaviour in non-human animals, read The Wolf Within: How I learned to talk dog previously published as The Man Who Lives With Wolves: Amazon.co.uk: Shaun Ellis: Books
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Orias
Left Hand Path
I figured your reflection of a natural state of mind would reveal what your actually talking about and how it contradicts you.
Obviously, you must not view ourselves as being "natural", which reveals a lot now doesn't it?
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
after reading the article i concluded that it wasnt really stating anything new. So we cant walk through walls... and? That means we must assume that our morals (which is what the OP is talking about) can come from nature???
I cant see how the article applies. it makes a good point about 'freedom' being limited by nature, which i totally agree...but thats not really what the OP is asking.
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Oneatatime
Huh?
The naturalistic approach to morality is superior to belief in God. Gods existance has not been established and its nature is unknown so therefore no morality can be said to be derived from God. When confronted with this a religious person can either refuse to consider it, consider it but ignore the problem when it becomes apparant, or seek an alternative basis for their morality. Unfortunately the first two are the more popular options and the latter is taken by the minority who are probably already disenchanted with their religion and see this as a way out.
Humanism is a good example of how a moral system superior to religion can be developed on the basis of secularism, rationalism, autonomy and self-reflection amongst other things. Humans, other species and the environment should be respected on the basis that they have an intrinsic worth, not because they are beleived to be product of God which is no different to saying that something is valuable because it belongs to a king or other such authority figure.
Nature is ultimately the source of morality and its far better to accept this than make up morals and attribute them to a God with all the associated problems which comes with this.
Humanism is a good example of how a moral system superior to religion can be developed on the basis of secularism, rationalism, autonomy and self-reflection amongst other things. Humans, other species and the environment should be respected on the basis that they have an intrinsic worth, not because they are beleived to be product of God which is no different to saying that something is valuable because it belongs to a king or other such authority figure.
Nature is ultimately the source of morality and its far better to accept this than make up morals and attribute them to a God with all the associated problems which comes with this.
BruceDLimber
Well-Known Member
Any time you have to reply with "obviously," you're already ignoring the fact that you're on the wrong track! Not to mention, you have NO IDEA what I do and don't believe as evinced by what followed the word.
So having better things to do and since you STILL never refuted anything I'd said, I'll simply drop the conversation here.
Bruce