Which Jesus is the right one?

[Kathryn]

You didn't understand. I'm asking people to decide which Jesus in those gospels is the real one.
If all the descriptions apply then I rather think he would have been a person of split character.

So which do you choose? The caring loving gentle man who rejected riches, or the threatening warlike one who rewarded capital investment?

Or should I guess?

I don't care what you do. My suggestion still stands however.

 

[ChristineM]

Or maybe both existed?
The Northern Jews didn't live under Roman occupation, apart from when they journeyed south.

I think both existed and got mixed up, hence the story of Jesus Barabbas.

I'm going from the Pax Romana and Roman punishment. They had different methods of execution for different crimes, Crucifixion was reserved for treason and traitors to Rome.

 

[oldbadger]

I don't care what you do.

I need counselling now. Heartbroken.

My suggestion still stands however.

I'll be looking thru them for examples a fair bit.

 

[Kathryn]

a fair bit.

Just read them - they're not that long.

 

[oldbadger]

I'm going from the Pax Romana and Roman punishment. They had different methods of execution for different crimes, Crucifixion was reserved for treason and traitors to Rome.

Oh they were real sweethearts, for sure.
Our English leaders 1500 years later weren't any better.

But the 2-3 day death of crucifixion was living hell.

 

[oldbadger]

Just read them - they're not that long.

I'll bet you don't know them so well.

 

[Kathryn]

I'll bet you don't know them so well.

I actually reread the NT recently, other than Revelations. I left it thinking that Jesus was sort of a ****** but also sort of gentle with people who seemed to deserve being gentle with.

 

[rocala]

You didn't understand. I'm asking people to decide which Jesus in those gospels is the real one.

and I for one think it's a pretty good question. Sadly not everyone grasps that this is a debate section.

 

[oldbadger]

I actually reread the NT recently, other than Revelations. I left it thinking that Jesus was sort of a ****** but also sort of gentle with people who seemed to deserve being gentle with.

Fair enough.
I think that's two persons described. He certainly this thread.

 

[oldbadger]

and I for one think it's a pretty good question. Sadly not everyone grasps that this is a debate section.

I'd be in trouble if it wasn't!

 

[rocala]

So which Jesus is the real one?

I have been thinking about this and I am not comfortable that there has to be a saint or a tough guy.
I recall reading about a man who was a pacifist but in WWII he dropped his principles and enlisted. To him, the Nazi's were an exception who had to be stopped by any means.
Could something similar have happened to Jesus? We know so little about his life. Even deeply spiritual people can have a limit.

 

[oldbadger]

I have been thinking about this and I am not comfortable that there has to be a saint or a tough guy.
I recall reading about a man who was a pacifist but in WWII he dropped his principles and enlisted. To him, the Nazi's were an exception who had to be stopped by any means.
Could something similar have happened to Jesus? We know so little about his life. Even deeply spiritual people can have a limit.

I'll go with that...... A person so outraged by corrupt hypocrisy and crushing carelessness that he demonstrated in the bazaar and picketed the Temple courts two days running.
Yeah.

 

[1213]

There's one that tells that gathering riches and loving mammon are both very wrong, but some Christians reply by telling me that Jesus believes in profits and rewards for profitable servants. Which one is the right one?

They are not contradictory. Being profitable doesn't necessary mean one loves mammon.

There's the Jesus that orders people never to call others 'fool' but Christians sometimes accuse others of being 'brick-thick'. Which Jesus is the right one?

People can be called fools, but in that case there is a risk for judgment. I understand this means, it can be true that the person is a fool and then there is no problem with it.

...whoever shall say, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of the fire of Gehenna...
Matt. 5:22

There's the Jesus that insists on peaceful behaviour and turning the other cheek when slapped. But some Christians insist that Jesus wanted his followers to sell their possessions and buy swords.

Buying a sword does not mean that person should not be peaceful. And as it is said, two swords were enough. So no need to go buy more.

And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And He said to them, It is enough.
Luke 22:38

 

[RestlessSoul]

Thank you for your post. I do think that Jesus is the most likely one and his followers are most valuable within any community and not just their own.

So the question begs, who was the threatening, grasping, sword wielding and violent man of the same name?

Maybe he was the character most likely to persuade early medieval European warlords to convert (and become Warriors for Christ).

When Alfred defeated the Great Heathen Army, and forced Guthrum to accept baptism as a condition of the peace treaty between the Saxons and the Danes, it's unlikely Guthrun familiarised himself with the Gospels at any point.

 

[oldbadger]

K

They are not contradictory. Being profitable doesn't necessary mean one loves mammon.

Now tell us all what happened to the servant who secured his master's funds and returned them to him. I seem to remember that he got severely treated?
Jesus was quite clear about this.

To amass profits in a community where others have difficulty and go without is obviously not what Jesus thought was right.

People can be called fools, but in that case there is a risk for judgment. I understand this means, it can be true that the person is a fool and then there is no problem with it.

...whoever shall say, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of the fire of Gehenna...
Matt. 5:22

Here we can see what Jesus thought about careless people who shout their mouths off, and along you come to tell us Jesus meant something more convenient for you.

You tell us that there is no problem with calling your perception of fools 'fool'.
A person who is a defined fool should surely be given careful care?
And do you think it's ok to call an amputee a cripple? Or do you think there's a difference?

Buying a sword does not mean that person should not be peaceful. And as it is said, two swords were enough. So no need to go buy more.

And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And He said to them, It is enough.
Luke 22:38

And here is your body-serve to adjust what one Jesus said and meant......again.
The other Jesus was quite clear about violence, 1213; you can't stitch them together like that in to some kind of schizophrenic personality.

 

[oldbadger]

Maybe he was the character most likely to persuade early medieval European warlords to convert (and become Warriors for Christ).

For certain! Alfred's Jesus was an axe wielding warrior!

When Alfred defeated the Great Heathen Army, and forced Guthrum to accept baptism as a condition of the peace treaty between the Saxons and the Danes, it's unlikely Guthrun familiarised himself with the Gospels at any point.

Exactly! Just as Alfred's God was a mixture of local superstitions and deities which the church had reversed itself in to, so the Viking God's were a variation of characters that could suit any human needs. The Vikings probably decided that Alfred's God was useful and undertook to certain ceremonies....good diplomacy... Probably thought that this other God would help them in battles.
The idea that Guthrun ever learned much about the real Jesus is just strange, imo.

 

[Tomef]

Hello.
Now which Jesus is the real one!

There's one that tells that gathering riches and loving mammon are both very wrong, but some Christians reply by telling me that Jesus believes in profits and rewards for profitable servants. Which one is the right one?

There's the Jesus that orders people never to call others 'fool' but Christians sometimes accuse others of being 'brick-thick'. Which Jesus is the right one?

There's the Jesus that insists on peaceful behaviour and turning the other cheek when slapped. But some Christians insist that Jesus wanted his followers to sell their possessions and buy swords.

And......there are more examples, but you get it.
So which Jesus is the real one?

Jesus is a skin people put on for different purposes. Some to gain power, wealth and influence, some to abdicate personal responsibility, others as a means to justify the underlying beliefs and impulses they are actually driven by. Whether that’s a good or bad thing depends a lot on the people involved.

 

[oldbadger]

Jesus is a skin people put on for different purposes. Some to gain power, wealth and influence, some to abdicate personal responsibility, others as a means to justify the underlying beliefs and impulses they are actually driven by. Whether that’s a good or bad thing depends a lot on the people involved.

Yes, that can be true of many Christians. But there will always be the ones who stick with just one Jesus. Then it is all down to 'which Jesus'.

 

[1213]

Now tell us all what happened to the servant who secured his master's funds and returned them to him. I seem to remember that he got severely treated?
Jesus was quite clear about this.

To amass profits in a community where others have difficulty and go without is obviously not what Jesus thought was right.

I don't it can be said he secured the funds. But, in this case I think the problem is not the profit, but that the person didn't care and was a coward.

The other Jesus was quite clear about violence, .

Please show the scripture, where is Jesus clear about violence?

 

[oldbadger]

Please show the scripture, where is Jesus clear about violence?

Mark {11:15} And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; {11:16} And would not suffer that any man should carry [any] vessel through the temple.

Actions speak louder than words, 1213. In G-John Jesus uses a whip which he made himself, you know.