Which one is a Cult? A or B?

[TrueBeliever37]

I answered a few of your questions about god. Did you get lost? Seek and...ye shall find.

The Messiah said Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up. John 2:19-21 How could he say he would raise up his own body from death if he wasn't God? (We know from other verses that God raised the body up from death.)

2nd Question: If he wasn't God, how could he say Before Abraham was I am? John 8:56-58 Because the Messiah wasn't even born until long after the time of Abraham.

 

[Dogknox20]

Which one is a Cult? A or B?

'Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.' (1 Corinthians 15:24)


A. Trinitarians Claim that God hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father
B. Christians Claim Jesus hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father

Any religion that was started by a man in the past one hundred fifty years is a cult!

 

[YoursTrue]

The Messiah said Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up. John 2:19-21 How could he say he would raise up his own body from death if he wasn't God? (We know from other verses that God raised the body up from death.)

2nd Question: If he wasn't God, how could he say Before Abraham was I am? John 8:56-58 Because the Messiah wasn't even born until long after the time of Abraham.

I'd like to start with your first question, in other words, you ask how Jesus could say he would raise up his own body from the dead if he wasn't God. Jesus explained that what he heard from the Father, he told his disciples. Let's start there to see that Jesus did not mean he was God or equal to God his Father when he said that he would raise the temple of his body up. Please note and tell me what you think about his following statement: "I have called you friends, because all that I have heard from the Father I have made known to you." (John 15:16) So who did Jesus say he heard from, which he later related to his disciples?

 

[TrueBeliever37]

I'd like to start with your first question, in other words, you ask how Jesus could say he would raise up his own body from the dead if he wasn't God. Jesus explained that what he heard from the Father, he told his disciples. Let's start there to see that Jesus did not mean he was God or equal to God his Father when he said that he would raise the temple of his body up. Please note and tell me what you think about his following statement: "I have called you friends, because all that I have heard from the Father I have made known to you." (John 15:16) So who did Jesus say he heard from, which he later related to his disciples?

You are saying the Father told him to tell us he would raise his own body up. So my question is how did he do it since you say he was not God? Explain it using your beliefs. You say he was NOT God, so explain how he raised his own body up.

(Here is my answer. The Father dwelling in the body was speaking and saying if you destroy this body, in three days I will raise it up.) Remember, he said I and my Father are one. If you have SEEN me you have SEEN the Father.

My answer to your friends question. - The flesh (which is the Son) learned from the Spirit which is the Father.

And you skipped my 2nd question. Since you say he wasn't God - how was he before Abraham when he wasn't even born yet?

 

[YoursTrue]

You are saying the Father told him to tell us he would raise his own body up. So my question is how did he do it since you say he was not God? Explain it using your beliefs. You say he was NOT God, so explain how he raised his own body up.

(Here is my answer. The Father dwelling in the body was speaking and saying if you destroy this body, in three days I will raise it up.) Remember, he said I and my Father are one. If you have SEEN me you have SEEN the Father.

My answer to your friends question. - The flesh (which is the Son) learned from the Spirit which is the Father.

And you skipped my 2nd question. Since you say he wasn't God - how was he before Abraham when he wasn't even born yet?

Because...he was in heaven with his father before he was born to Mary. John 1:1 helps to explains that. As well as other scriptures. Perhaps later we can discuss this in depth, but suffice it for now to say that after his resurrection, the disciples saw him go upwards to the father. The father was in heaven, Jesus is the Son and after his death as a human son of God, he went back to heaven.

 

[YoursTrue]

You are saying the Father told him to tell us he would raise his own body up. So my question is how did he do it since you say he was not God? Explain it using your beliefs. You say he was NOT God, so explain how he raised his own body up.

(Here is my answer. The Father dwelling in the body was speaking and saying if you destroy this body, in three days I will raise it up.) Remember, he said I and my Father are one. If you have SEEN me you have SEEN the Father.

My answer to your friends question. - The flesh (which is the Son) learned from the Spirit which is the Father.

And you skipped my 2nd question. Since you say he wasn't God - how was he before Abraham when he wasn't even born yet?

Jesus and no other human or angel was the perfect representative of the Father.

 

[YoursTrue]

You are saying the Father told him to tell us he would raise his own body up. So my question is how did he do it since you say he was not God? Explain it using your beliefs. You say he was NOT God, so explain how he raised his own body up.

(Here is my answer. The Father dwelling in the body was speaking and saying if you destroy this body, in three days I will raise it up.) Remember, he said I and my Father are one. If you have SEEN me you have SEEN the Father.

My answer to your friends question. - The flesh (which is the Son) learned from the Spirit which is the Father.

And you skipped my 2nd question. Since you say he wasn't God - how was he before Abraham when he wasn't even born yet?

I am saying that Jesus was no doubt saying that he was assured that he would live again. Furthermore, if he had not died, no need for any expression like that. He died. Then he was raised up. He knew he would be.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

I am saying that Jesus was no doubt saying that he was assured that he would live again. Furthermore, if he had not died, no need for any expression like that. He died. Then he was raised up. He knew he would be.

You still are not answering the question of how a man could raise himself up from the dead.

And for the third or fourth time - How can he say he was before Abraham, when he had not been born until after Abraham was already dead?

You just cannot seem to answer the actual questions?

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Jesus and no other human or angel was the perfect representative of the Father.

Peanut Butter and Jelly are good. Your statement had absolutely nothing to do with answering any of the questions.

 

[YoursTrue]

Peanut Butter and Jelly are good. Your statement had absolutely nothing to do with answering any of the questions.

John 1:1 says that the Word was God (in many translations) and was WITH God. So you have one God with another God. Period.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

John 1:1 says that the Word was God (in many translations) and was WITH God. So you have one God with another God. Period.

Here you go flip flopping again. First you say he is not God, now you are saying he is God. Which is it? When you make up your mind let me know.

Because now It is starting to sound like you don't believe what YHWH said in Isaiah 44:6

 

[YoursTrue]

You still are not answering the question of how a man could raise himself up from the dead.

And for the third or fourth time - How can he say he was before Abraham, when he had not been born until after Abraham was already dead?

You just cannot seem to answer the actual questions?

I have answered it. So I'll answer it again. Jesus was faithful unto death. That is the answer. He was guaranteed a resurrection. You don't know if he was repeating what he knew and heard from his HEAVENLY FATHER, or if he knew by virtue of his faithfulness that because of that he was assured of a resurrection. Since Jesus is not his Father, there are only two ways to look at his statement.
Now for your next question, HE said that he was before Abraham. Abraham was born and died before Jesus came to the earth from -- heaven. Do you not understand that? Jesus knew who he was. And where he came from. And where he was before he was on the earth.

Here you go flip flopping again. First you say he is not God, now you are saying he is God. Which is it? When you make up your mind let me know.

Because now It is starting to sound like you don't believe what YHWH said in Isaiah 44:6

Let's try to understand this: How can you be God and with God? If you really want to talk about it, let me know how a person can be WITH GOD and BE GOD.

 

[YoursTrue]

Here you go flip flopping again. First you say he is not God, now you are saying he is God. Which is it? When you make up your mind let me know.

Because now It is starting to sound like you don't believe what YHWH said in Isaiah 44:6

Frankly, my dear, as that expression was said in Gone With the Wind, I am certain you don't understand the context of that scripture. But at this point, I wish you well, and hope you have a good evening.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

I have answered it. So I'll answer it again. Jesus was faithful unto death. That is the answer. He was guaranteed a resurrection. You don't know if he was repeating what he knew and heard from his HEAVENLY FATHER, or if he knew by virtue of his faithfulness that because of that he was assured of a resurrection. Since Jesus is not his Father, there are only two ways to look at his statement.
Now for your next question, HE said that he was before Abraham. Abraham was born and died before Jesus came to the earth from -- heaven. Do you not understand that? Jesus knew who he was. And where he came from. And where he was before he was on the earth.

Let's try to understand this: How can you be God and with God? If you really want to talk about it, let me know how a person can be WITH GOD and BE GOD.

I don't think that is what that verse means. I know that is commonly taught but it is an inaccurate translation. You can't have a God with God without having more than one God.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Frankly, my dear, as that expression was said in Gone With the Wind, I am certain you don't understand the context of that scripture. But at this point, I wish you well, and hope you have a good evening.

I just want you to make a choice one way or the other as to whether you believe he is God or not. Hope you have a good evening also.

 

[YoursTrue]

Here you go flip flopping again. First you say he is not God, now you are saying he is God. Which is it? When you make up your mind let me know.

Because now It is starting to sound like you don't believe what YHWH said in Isaiah 44:6

See, Jesus is not the God he prayed to. He is not the God he was with when he was in heaven.

I just want you to make a choice one way or the other as to whether you believe he is God or not. Hope you have a good evening also.

How do you figure the following? I quote from 2 translations, I think you said you like the King James Version, but it's written in fairly archaic English, so I put in the New King James Version also.
Here it is:
King James Bible
That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

New King James Version
that you may with one mind and one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Who is Jesus said to be in that verse? God? or the Father? or -- the Lord? (Which one?) Let's go verse by verse. Isaiah 44:5 must be understood in context. You know what that means, don't you? Jesus is not God equal to God. Jesus is a mighty spirit in heaven. Let's go over Psalm 82:1 and see what you make of it in reference to how the word 'god' is used. OK?
Take the KJV in this case:
Psalm 82:1:King James Bible
A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
How do you understand that God judges among the gods. Please do say...thank you, by the way.

 

[YoursTrue]

Here you go flip flopping again. First you say he is not God, now you are saying he is God. Which is it? When you make up your mind let me know.

Because now It is starting to sound like you don't believe what YHWH said in Isaiah 44:6

By the way, what again does it say at John 1:1?

 

[TrueBeliever37]

By the way, what again does it say at John 1:1?

Logos means plan/thought/concept/idea. So in the beginning was the plan, and the plan was with God, and the plan was God. When the time was right for that part of the plan to be fulfilled, God took on flesh.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

See, Jesus is not the God he prayed to. He is not the God he was with when he was in heaven.

How do you figure the following? I quote from 2 translations, I think you said you like the King James Version, but it's written in fairly archaic English, so I put in the New King James Version also.
Here it is:
King James Bible
That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

New King James Version
that you may with one mind and one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Who is Jesus said to be in that verse? God? or the Father? or -- the Lord? (Which one?) Let's go verse by verse. Isaiah 44:5 must be understood in context. You know what that means, don't you? Jesus is not God equal to God. Jesus is a mighty spirit in heaven. Let's go over Psalm 82:1 and see what you make of it in reference to how the word 'god' is used. OK?
Take the KJV in this case:
Psalm 82:1:King James Bible
A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
How do you understand that God judges among the gods. Please do say...thank you, by the way.

The flesh was weak and prayed to the Spirit for strength. Once again not two separate persons, but flesh and Spirit. The Spirit was God (called the Father) and the flesh was called the Son.

 

[Brian2]

See, Jesus is not the God he prayed to. He is not the God he was with when he was in heaven.

But He was Thomas's God and Lord.
The Bible tells us that the Father our one God and that Jesus is our on Lord.
If that means that Jesus cannot be God does it mean that the Father cannot be Lord, even though the scriptures tell us that YHWH is the Lord.