Which one is a Cult? A or B?

[Subduction Zone]

I point out ...There are other stories of a Great Flood other then in the bible! And.. The Sphinx (Lion) in Egypt archeologists say; the wear on it is believed to come from water!

Even if that is the case how does that help the Noah's Ark myth?

And no, that does not appear to be the case at all:

Sphinx water erosion hypothesis - Wikipedia

The Sphinx water erosion hypothesis is a fringe claim, contending that the Great Sphinx of Giza and its enclose walls eroded primarily due to ancient floods or rainfalls, attributing their creation to Plato's lost civilization of Atlantis over 11,500 years ago.[1][2]

Egyptologists, geologists and others have rejected the water erosion hypothesis and the idea of an older Sphinx, pointing to archaeological, climatological and geological evidence to the contrary.[3][4][5]

 

[Dogknox20]

Sphinx water erosion hypothesis - Wikipedia
Schoch argues that the Giza Plateau is "criss crossed with fractures or joints millions of years old" and that "fissures such as those on the Sphinx enclosure wall can only be produced by water, primarily precipitation, and do bear on the age of the Sphinx."[27]

Geoscientist Jørn Christiansen agrees that at least some of the erosion took place before the Sphinx was carved. Stating that water most likely seeped through natural fissures in the limestone before the Sphinx had been carved, causing the walls of the Sphinx enclosure to look like they were carved much earlier than they really were.

Subduction Zone Water caused erosion it does NOT mater if the Sphinx was there or not! FACT: There was WATER that eroded the stone!
I say it again.. There are other stories of a great flood found in ancient stories!
At the end of the flood God promised to never destroy the earth with water... It is FIRE that is prophesied to do it next time!

2 Peter 3:12
as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sphinx water erosion hypothesis - Wikipedia
Schoch argues that the Giza Plateau is "criss crossed with fractures or joints millions of years old" and that "fissures such as those on the Sphinx enclosure wall can only be produced by water, primarily precipitation, and do bear on the age of the Sphinx."[27]

Geoscientist Jørn Christiansen agrees that at least some of the erosion took place before the Sphinx was carved. Stating that water most likely seeped through natural fissures in the limestone before the Sphinx had been carved, causing the walls of the Sphinx enclosure to look like they were carved much earlier than they really were.

Subduction Zone Water caused erosion it does NOT mater if the Sphinx was there or not! FACT: There was WATER that eroded the stone!
I say it again.. There are other stories of a great flood found in ancient stories!
At the end of the flood God promised to never destroy the earth with water... It is FIRE that is prophesied to do it next time!

2 Peter 3:12
as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.

So what? Water erosion occurred. That does not support the flood myth.

In fact you cannot even have evidence for the myth until you first have a falsifiable model. This is a scientific discussion so you need scientific evidence. There is not one whit of scientific evidence for the Flood of Noah and all sorts of evidence against it.

What is your model? What reasonable test based upon your model's merits and claims could possibly refute it if it is wrong? If you cannot answer this question you do not by definition have any evidence for your beliefs.

 

[metis]

I am not saying what you do or don't do. But I understood you to say that one's main mission is to serve others. Yet Jesus did say that we must serve God alone. I don't know what that means to you, but to me it means that the service toward God is above all, including the service to man. And Jesus said that we must serve God alone. Again -- therefore -- it's context, context, context. Service to God must mean service to man also. But seems the top of the reasoning is to serve God above all. So again -- combining love and service to man and God is a qualified recognition. Before I became a believer (take Amazing Grace as a signature) a preacher told me (I was looking for God) that only God can help me. I did not join his religion, but at first I did not absorb that but for me it became true.

I've repeatedly stated that I believe in Jesus' Two Commandments, therefore there should be no question where I stand.

 

[metis]

Do you believe that Jesus referred to the Flood of Noah's time as a reality, or was he referencing a myth?

I think it would be totally presumptuous on my part to assume one way or another what Jesus may have thought.

Within ancient Judaism, there is the frequent treatment of myth as if they were real events, and Jesus' parables are just an example of that process. Even though Judaism is linear with time, there's frequent "looping" [like flashbacks] back to past events, whether they be actual history or myths [teachings]. IOW, one's actual questions should be like "What is the author trying to tell us?", which is difficult and quite conjectural for us today, no doubt.

 

[Dogknox20]

So what? Water erosion occurred. That does not support the flood myth.

In fact you cannot even have evidence for the myth until you first have a falsifiable model. This is a scientific discussion so you need scientific evidence. There is not one whit of scientific evidence for the Flood of Noah and all sorts of evidence against it.

What is your model? What reasonable test based upon your model's merits and claims could possibly refute it if it is wrong? If you cannot answer this question you do not by definition have any evidence for your beliefs.

FACT.. There is evidence the rock (Sphinx) was eroded by water!
FACT.. When you carve something in rock you do NOT carve it to look as if it was eroded by water! The erosion happened AFTER it was carved!

FACT... There are other stories of a great flood that happened on earth by other peoples NOT just by those in the scriptures!

 

[Subduction Zone]

FACT.. There is evidence the rock (Sphinx) was eroded by water!
FACT.. When you carve something in rock you do NOT carve it to look as if it was eroded by water! The erosion happened AFTER it was carved!

FACT... There are other stories of a great flood that happened on earth by other peoples NOT just by those in the scriptures!

I am sorry, but you have no clue as to what even qualifies as evidence in such an arguemtn.

Would you like to start there? Random facts are not evidence when it comes to scientific evidence. You are only making your desperation obvious when you write such posts.

By the way, this concept of scientific evidence applies all throughout the sciences. It is a useful tool to understand.

 

[Dogknox20]

Subduction Zone It all starts with a theory ...
a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.

My theory is the Sphinx was eroded by water!

 

[Subduction Zone]

Subduction Zone It all starts with a theory ...
a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.

My theory is the Sphinx was eroded by water!

I am sorry, that is not a theory. A theory cannot be personal in the sciences. But I will let that go for a while. What reasonable test based upon your "theory" could possibly refute it?

This is a very important question that you need to be able to answer.

 

[Dogknox20]

I am sorry, that is not a theory. A theory cannot be personal in the sciences. But I will let that go for a while. What reasonable test based upon your "theory" could possibly refute it?

This is a very important question that you need to be able to answer.

Subduction Zone I don't need to answer it...!
The fact is, all things have a beginning and an end; No theory needed!
The unaverse has a beginning and it will wind down to have an end! There was a cause for the Earth to begin, the flood is an example of an end! The flood is an end and thus a new beginning!
FACT: No theory needed... There are other peoples that also have a flood story!

Subduction Zone Even to a very simple minded person a flood means an end, a change! There is evidence of a flood when, how or where is not the purpose of these stories! The scriptures are NOT a science text book! God sent the flood to have a new beginning! He set the Rainbow to remind us he will never cause another change to the earth to happen by the use of water.. The scriptures tell us the next big new change & beginning is going to come by fire!

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.
&
2 Peter 3:12
as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Subduction Zone I don't need to answer it...!
The fact is, all things have a beginning and an end; No theory needed!
The unaverse has a beginning and it will wind down to have an end! There was a cause for the Earth to begin, the flood is an example of an end! The flood is an end and thus a new beginning!
FACT: No theory needed... There are other peoples that also have a flood story!

Subduction Zone Even to a very simple minded person a flood means an end, a change! There is evidence of a flood when, how or where is not the purpose of these stories! The scriptures are NOT a science text book! God sent the flood to have a new beginning! He set the Rainbow to remind us he will never cause another change to the earth to happen by the use of water.. The scriptures tell us the next big new change & beginning is going to come by fire!

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.
&
2 Peter 3:12
as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.

Then you do not have any evidence for your claims. Only ignorance and handwaving.

 

[Dogknox20]

Then you do not have any evidence for your claims. Only ignorance and handwaving.

Evidence is plain old logic.... All things must end! They age and die! They come to an end!

Subduction Zone your words... That does not support the flood myth. QUESTION..What evadenc do you have that tells us it is a myth!?
As soon as you use the word "MYTH" you are making a claim!

 

[YoursTrue]

Evidence is plain old logic.... All things must end! They age and die! They come to an end!

Subduction Zone your words... That does not support the flood myth. QUESTION..What evadenc do you have that tells us it is a myth!?
As soon as you use the word "MYTH" you are making a claim!

Except that humans are the only ones we know about who even think about living forever.

 

[YoursTrue]

I think it would be totally presumptuous on my part to assume one way or another what Jesus may have thought.

Within ancient Judaism, there is the frequent treatment of myth as if they were real events, and Jesus' parables are just an example of that process. Even though Judaism is linear with time, there's frequent "looping" [like flashbacks] back to past events, whether they be actual history or myths [teachings]. IOW, one's actual questions should be like "What is the author trying to tell us?", which is difficult and quite conjectural for us today, no doubt.

Jesus often revealed his thoughts to others, of course I figure you probably don't believe that the Bible is an accurate record.

 

[metis]

Jesus often revealed his thoughts to others, of course I figure you probably don't believe that the Bible is an accurate record.

Why are so intent on demeaning others who may disagree with you on some points?

As far as the Bible is concerned, I do not have a blind belief in anything, including even myself. And there is not claim in the Bible either that it is perfect even though we can use it for general guidance. The early Church never believed in scriptural inerrancy, and it wasn't even until the 19th century that some groups began to believe and teach that it is. If that's what some believe, that's their right, but that's not what I nor most Christian theologians believe.

IOW, the Bible is not God, nor is God contained within the confines of the Bible-- the Bible is about God and about what we as people of faith should be generally believing and doing.

 

[YoursTrue]

Why are so intent on demeaning others who may disagree with you on some points?

As far as the Bible is concerned, I do not have a blind belief in anything, including even myself. And there is not claim in the Bible either that it is perfect even though we can use it for general guidance. The early Church never believed in scriptural inerrancy, and it wasn't even until the 19th century that some groups began to believe and teach that it is. If that's what some believe, that's their right, but that's not what I nor most Christian theologians believe.

IOW, the Bible is not God, nor is God contained within the confines of the Bible-- the Bible is about God and about what we as people of faith should be generally believing and doing.

Look, the news has it that Elon Musk says he really is in favor of death. And not immortality. He thinks death is much better. (lol) Have you read about it?

 

[YoursTrue]

Why are so intent on demeaning others who may disagree with you on some points?

As far as the Bible is concerned, I do not have a blind belief in anything, including even myself. And there is not claim in the Bible either that it is perfect even though we can use it for general guidance. The early Church never believed in scriptural inerrancy, and it wasn't even until the 19th century that some groups began to believe and teach that it is. If that's what some believe, that's their right, but that's not what I nor most Christian theologians believe.

IOW, the Bible is not God, nor is God contained within the confines of the Bible-- the Bible is about God and about what we as people of faith should be generally believing and doing.

You gotta be kidding. Perhaps you don't understand. The Bible says certain things unequivocally. And now I'm wondering if you believe Jesus lived...or much of anything written in the Bible. YET some who don't know if Jesus really lived -- if he was born of a virgin -- if he fulfilled the prophecies pertaining to the Messiah -- actually claim to be a "Christian." I find that something like called hypocrisy. Generally be believing and doing. That's a good question. Generally... Either Jesus is the son of God now in heaven or he is not. This is not to say that interpretations are not always set in stone, like the Ten Commandments. Oops.

 

[YoursTrue]

Why are so intent on demeaning others who may disagree with you on some points?

As far as the Bible is concerned, I do not have a blind belief in anything, including even myself. And there is not claim in the Bible either that it is perfect even though we can use it for general guidance. The early Church never believed in scriptural inerrancy, and it wasn't even until the 19th century that some groups began to believe and teach that it is. If that's what some believe, that's their right, but that's not what I nor most Christian theologians believe.

IOW, the Bible is not God, nor is God contained within the confines of the Bible-- the Bible is about God and about what we as people of faith should be generally believing and doing.

What's the early church as you say above? Let's start there...what do you mean when you say the early church never believed in scriptural innerancy"? Again -- either the Bible is true or -- it is true in parts (which parts do you believe) or it is based on myths, etc., including Jesus and Mary -- the "early Church," did it believe Mary was a virgin? Just curious if you feel like answering-- after all you're the teacher, and somewhat of an expert, aren't you?

 

[metis]

Look, the news has it that Elon Musk says he really is in favor of death. And not immortality. He thinks death is much better. (lol) Have you read about it?

No, I haven't, nor does it relate to the topic under discussion.

 

[metis]

You gotta be kidding. Perhaps you don't understand. The Bible says certain things unequivocally. And now I'm wondering if you believe Jesus lived...or much of anything written in the Bible. YET some who don't know if Jesus really lived -- if he was born of a virgin -- if he fulfilled the prophecies pertaining to the Messiah -- actually claim to be a "Christian." I find that something like called hypocrisy. Generally be believing and doing. That's a good question. Generally... Either Jesus is the son of God now in heaven or he is not. This is not to say that interpretations are not always set in stone, like the Ten Commandments. Oops.

Believe in whatever you want, I guess, but you seem to love making absurd accusations even after I explain my positions and why I have them to you. Most theologians simply do not believe scriptures are totally inerrant, but if you believe otherwise, fine.