Which one would you rather be: Blind or Deaf?

[Mock Turtle]

As I recall, my mother was sexually abused as a child, my brother told me that, but I do not remember the details... I also vaguely recall some sexual impropriety on the part of some college students who lived upstairs when I was about 10 years old, but it was no big deal. Maybe it had an impact, I do not know, as I did have some attitudes and behaviors that might indicate that later in life.

It seems that many people have vague recollections of events within their lives but are unable to formulate any clear memories for these - these often being sexual experiences. For myself, most of my memories seem to be as like looking down from a plane, a layer of clouds below, with many mountain peaks emerging through the clouds, and these memories (the peaks) are quite clear with little ambiguity concerning them. That is, either I remember an event or I don’t, and rarely do I misremember, although I do realise that I may be mistaken some of the time. Most of the solid memories have always been there - including clear memories of the abuse, which was not extensive but bad enough. Along with many others no doubt, I certainly have witnessed different versions of memories, with at least two experiences, one involving another person when we were climbing in the Alps. But I think my version is correct on that occasion, since I have good reasons to believe so - I can distinctly remember a thought I had at the time. My memory was definitely wrong on the other occasion however, but that was just misremembering the name of an actor in a film - I had replaced the face of one with that of the other in my memory however, which is important to note. The rest of my life, the low-lying hills and plains shrouded in cloud, is less clear, but since much of it was quite mundane, that is to be expected. I wouldn’t place much money whilst betting on the below the clouds events, but I would when betting on any peaks having a solid existence. I think I have certainty over some memories because they were physical events and often being quite traumatic too. Like being lost at the seaside aged 2 or 3.

I do not remember being physically close to my mother at all, but I was close to my father at times. But neither one of them ever talked to us about what we would do when we grew up and we did not learn how to do the things many kids learn, how to cook or clean or take care of the yard, home repairs, etc. So, we were pretty unprepared for adult life. My dad was a college professor, English lit, and my mother had some college education, and both were above average intelligence. I guess it was just a given we would go to college, although nobody ever talked about it... Then when I graduated from high school I moved across the country with my sister to go to college, and after that I moved around to about six different states because of colleges I was in.

That figures.

Maybe some of it is as you said, parents in those days, in the 50s and 60s did not tend to be that affectionate. My dad was of English/Welsh heritage and I have heard that is one reason for being less warm... My mother was Greek and they tend to be more like Italians, warmer, my mother just had issues.

I can recall some times when we went to the lake in the summer, my dad would get really drunk with the guy who ran the landing, a year round resident on the lake who was his buddy. My mom and his wife were chatting about it, but it is all a vague memory now. I just remember my mom being pretty upset. My sister and I were pretty much off to ourselves at the lake, except an occasional card game with the family at night. To this day, I really like the woods and lakes, we live on a large lot that is like a forest overlooking a lake. I think people tend to try to recreate their good times from childhood.

Yep. I have always felt at home in the mountains - walking and climbing (even caving, but that is more under than in ), and love it in winter such that I often used to just go on my own and bivvy out amongst all the snow. Lot less crowded in winter too. In The Lakes here for example, it can get just so crowded and they have to put proper paving-like slabs down because the paths are becoming so eroded. I think we can thank a certain author called Wainwright for this, since he wrote some excellent guides to the region - unfortunately.

So your mother left her house to you...

Yes. I suspect I was her favourite - she once told me so but she might have said that to both my older brothers too . I used to be quite close to her around the age of 10 or so, doing the shopping and such, and I was undoubtedly quite happy then judging by at least one picture. Later in life she moved to be much closer to me too, choosing to live near me rather than with another brother. The eldest emigrated to Australia.

My mother was a renter, lived in a condo for the last 10 years of her life, but she saved all her money and left my brother and I a lot of money. He was able to buy a house outright and I was able to move from a smaller house t a larger one. I was always a saver too, and invested a lot of money, so we have more money than we will ever need, a lot invested in stocks and three houses, two of which are paid for and the last one will be paid off next fall. Most of my life I had to worry about having enough money, so that is one reason I saved all my money, the other reason is that I do not really want anything money can buy. We have two very old cars and one never goes anywhere since I rarely drive anymore but rather ride my bike to work. We live a very simple life that revolves around our cats and outdoor animals, most people would consider our life boring, but I do not need excitement. I have always liked learning and I do that on forums mostly. I also always liked writing, as you can see. I used to like to travel, but with 11 cats, some of which are old and ill and need constant care, that is really not possible. I have come to accept what is and not want what I cannot have... I live one day at a time.

Best way probably.

That might be because of male gangs and also because you had a mother who was encouraging and supportive, showing you as much love as you wanted. I cannot say the same about my mother, but she did what she could, and I got over being angry at her many decades ago. She did the best she could with what she had. I also think that she taught us to have morals even though we were not raised in any religion. I can thank her for that.

Is this a suitable point to quote Larkin (wouldn't get through the dreaded censor )

This Be The Verse by Philip Larkin

 

[Trailblazer]

It seems that many people have vague recollections of events within their lives but are unable to formulate any clear memories for these - these often being sexual experiences. For myself, most of my memories seem to be as like looking down from a plane, a layer of clouds below, with many mountain peaks emerging through the clouds, and these memories (the peaks) are quite clear with little ambiguity concerning them. That is, either I remember an event or I don’t, and rarely do I misremember, although I do realise that I may be mistaken some of the time. Most of the solid memories have always been there - including clear memories of the abuse, which was not extensive but bad enough. Along with many others no doubt, I certainly have witnessed different versions of memories, with at least two experiences, one involving another person when we were climbing in the Alps. But I think my version is correct on that occasion, since I have good reasons to believe so - I can distinctly remember a thought I had at the time. My memory was definitely wrong on the other occasion however, but that was just misremembering the name of an actor in a film - I had replaced the face of one with that of the other in my memory however, which is important to note. The rest of my life, the low-lying hills and plains shrouded in cloud, is less clear, but since much of it was quite mundane, that is to be expected. I wouldn’t place much money whilst betting on the below the clouds events, but I would when betting on any peaks having a solid existence. I think I have certainty over some memories because they were physical events and often being quite traumatic too. Like being lost at the seaside aged 2 or 3.

Yep. I have always felt at home in the mountains - walking and climbing (even caving, but that is more under than in

), and love it in winter such that I often used to just go on my own and bivvy out amongst all the snow. Lot less crowded in winter too. In The Lakes here for example, it can get just so crowded and they have to put proper paving-like slabs down because the paths are becoming so eroded. I think we can thank a certain author called Wainwright for this, since he wrote some excellent guides to the region - unfortunately.

Thanks for sharing all of that. We help each other when we share.

I like the peaks analogy. I remember certain peaks from childhood and maybe the reason I do not remember much more is because it was rather mundane. Some of these memories were sexual and might have had some lasting impacts. For example, I remember my mother walking into my bedroom and giving me a shaming look when I was doing what children should not do at that age. I remember going upstairs where the college students lived (we rented a downstairs, they rented the upstairs) and they touched me inappropriately... That memory is vague but I know there was no more than that because I was a virgin when I got married.

I remember a time when I got lost on the other side of town from where we lived. I do not know how I got there, I just remember being lost and scared. Eventually I was found but I cannot remember how.

I remember a time when a neighbor kid threw a rock at me and I was bleeding over my eye, my mom came but she seemed shocked and did not know what to do, so she took me to a place she knew I liked to eat instead of taking me to the doctor where I should have gone for stitches.

Much of these events were setups for what would happen later after I first became an adult, horrific things I cannot share on a forum.

I remember some good things too. I remember when we would go to the lake in Canada, we would stop at a Chinese restaurant and my sister and I would order hamburgers and fries. I remember going swimming at the pool on the college campus where my dad taught. I remember being the best speller in 5th grade. These were good memories.

We have a vacation house just up from the beach overlooking the Pacific Ocean. We never use it for ourselves, it is a monthly rental. I would prefer a cabin in the mountains in the woods but the beach house was a better investment and good for renting. I like the mountains better than the ocean. The ocean is beautiful to look at but the mountains are wonderful to look at and be in. I recall the mountains in British Columbia where we went on vacation, and the Colorado Rockies. It seems like those days are over. We have too many cats now. We live within an hour of Mt. Rainier and that is quite a beautiful mountain, but no time anymore to go for drives.

Yes. I suspect I was her favourite - she once told me so but she might have said that to both my older brothers too

. I used to be quite close to her around the age of 10 or so, doing the shopping and such, and I was undoubtedly quite happy then judging by at least one picture. Later in life she moved to be much closer to me too, choosing to live near me rather than with another brother. The eldest emigrated to Australia.

I think my brother was my mother’s favorite as far as who she was closest to emotionally. During the last 20 years of her life she lived in a small town where my brother lived, about three hours from where I live. She would never move here, and that is one reason she passed away sooner than she might have. My brother got married and moved away and abandoned her. He was so selfish, after all she did for him. My mother had planned to move where we live just before she died and we even had an apartment picked out for her, but she died before she could move. It was so sad. My brother’s attitude was she was just old and did not need to live any longer, she was 93, but I think he just wanted her inheritance sooner than later. I had no idea what I was to inherit, I did not care about the money, but it did change my life because it allowed us to move to a bigger house and made life a lot easier. We were living in a very rustic country house before that and it only had a wood stove for heat. I liked the rustic life but the house was not big enough for the 19 cats we had at that time, which is the main reason we moved.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Thanks for sharing all of that. We help each other when we share.

I like the peaks analogy. I remember certain peaks from childhood and maybe the reason I do not remember much more is because it was rather mundane. Some of these memories were sexual and might have had some lasting impacts. For example, I remember my mother walking into my bedroom and giving me a shaming look when I was doing what children should not do at that age. I remember going upstairs where the college students lived (we rented a downstairs, they rented the upstairs) and they touched me inappropriately... That memory is vague but I know there was no more than that because I was a virgin when I got married.

I doubt we have advanced much with regards to how we view children and any sexuality. It still seems to catch parents out as to understanding that at some point kids are going to discover things. Nothing ever said about such in my family either.

I remember a time when I got lost on the other side of town from where we lived. I do not know how I got there, I just remember being lost and scared. Eventually I was found but I cannot remember how.

I remember a time when a neighbor kid threw a rock at me and I was bleeding over my eye, my mom came but she seemed shocked and did not know what to do, so she took me to a place she knew I liked to eat instead of taking me to the doctor where I should have gone for stitches.

A bit odd that.

Much of these events were setups for what would happen later after I first became an adult, horrific things I cannot share on a forum.

Well I hope you have had some help and support for any of this.

I remember some good things too. I remember when we would go to the lake in Canada, we would stop at a Chinese restaurant and my sister and I would order hamburgers and fries. I remember going swimming at the pool on the college campus where my dad taught. I remember being the best speller in 5th grade. These were good memories.

We have a vacation house just up from the beach overlooking the Pacific Ocean. We never use it for ourselves, it is a monthly rental. I would prefer a cabin in the mountains in the woods but the beach house was a better investment and good for renting. I like the mountains better than the ocean. The ocean is beautiful to look at but the mountains are wonderful to look at and be in. I recall the mountains in British Columbia where we went on vacation, and the Colorado Rockies. It seems like those days are over. We have too many cats now. We live within an hour of Mt. Rainier and that is quite a beautiful mountain, but no time anymore to go for drives.

I think I prefer mountains too, as long as they have a lot of snow on them. Southend-on Sea, our local holiday location, and quite convenient for London, is a bit crowded though. I think the pier there is a mile and a quarter long - even has its own little railway - or had - since I've not been back for decades. Choo-Choo!

I think my brother was my mother’s favorite as far as who she was closest to emotionally. During the last 20 years of her life she lived in a small town where my brother lived, about three hours from where I live. She would never move here, and that is one reason she passed away sooner than she might have. My brother got married and moved away and abandoned her. He was so selfish, after all she did for him. My mother had planned to move where we live just before she died and we even had an apartment picked out for her, but she died before she could move. It was so sad. My brother’s attitude was she was just old and did not need to live any longer, she was 93, but I think he just wanted her inheritance sooner than later. I had no idea what I was to inherit, I did not care about the money, but it did change my life because it allowed us to move to a bigger house and made life a lot easier. We were living in a very rustic country house before that and it only had a wood stove for heat. I liked the rustic life but the house was not big enough for the 19 cats we had at that time, which is the main reason we moved.

Our lives do seem very similar again. My brothers didn't take that much interest during the later years of my mother's life. When my father died, in 1997, I knew I had to look after my mother - she was showing signs of dementia and it did then progress. After a last year spent in various Care Homes, she died in 2002, having told me about her previous abuse (and two children born to her father) a few years earlier. I wasn't sure whether to try to find them and she didn't want to - perhaps understandably - so I have refrained from doing so.

Families, who'd have one!

 

[Trailblazer]

I doubt we have advanced much with regards to how we view children and any sexuality. It still seems to catch parents out as to understanding that at some point kids are going to discover things. Nothing ever said about such in my family either.

Nothing was said about anything in my family.

Well I hope you have had some help and support for any of this.

Thanks. I got all the help I needed but before that I lost a lot of my adult life, about 12 years. It’s all over now though. I rarely ever think about it unless I am talking about it.

I think I prefer mountains too, as long as they have a lot of snow on them. Southend-on Sea, our local holiday location, and quite convenient for London, is a bit crowded though. I think the pier there is a mile and a quarter long - even has its own little railway - or had - since I've not been back for decades. Choo-Choo!

I also like snow on my mountains... Before we moved here in 1988, we lived in Northern California and there was a mountain called Mt. Shasta that had snow on it year round. It was called the snow cone. Now we have Mt. Rainier that has snow on it year round.

Our lives do seem very similar again. My brothers didn't take that much interest during the later years of my mother's life. When my father died, in 1997, I knew I had to look after my mother - she was showing signs of dementia and it did then progress. After a last year spent in various Care Homes, she died in 2002, having told me about her previous abuse (and two children born to her father) a few years earlier. I wasn't sure whether to try to find them and she didn't want to - perhaps understandably - so I have refrained from doing so.

Even though we were not that close emotionally, I wanted my mother to move and be closer to me so we could take care of her. She never got dementia, she was just old and frail. She also had heart trouble because she had smoked for so many years. She never confided in me before she died bt I learned some things from my brother. I really miss her as I talk about her and I hope to see her after I die... The Baha’i Writings say we will see those with whom we had a spiritual affinity, but I do not know who they will be.

Families, who'd have one!

Most people want one and have one, but I have yet to figure out why...

I guess that means you never had one. I never had one either, just a family of cats. I never wanted children and it was just not in the cards. That is no doubt because of my own childhood, not feeling wanted...

 

[Mock Turtle]

Even though we were not that close emotionally, I wanted my mother to move and be closer to me so we could take care of her. She never got dementia, she was just old and frail. She also had heart trouble because she had smoked for so many years. She never confided in me before she died bt I learned some things from my brother. I really miss her as I talk about her and I hope to see her after I die... The Baha’i Writings say we will see those with whom we had a spiritual affinity, but I do not know who they will be.

I wish I did believe in some afterlife, as although no doubt my mother knew that I and my brothers loved her very much, I could at least express this better and show her my gratitude for all that she did for us. She deserved a better end than dementia.

I guess that means you never had one. I never had one either, just a family of cats. I never wanted children and it was just not in the cards. That is no doubt because of my own childhood, not feeling wanted...

Nope. Friends but no family of my own, although I have at least two friends with long-lasting relationships (married) who never had children for various reasons. I never even had the relationships though. I seem to have had what might be typical of the introverted, and especially of avoidants, that is, in having just one very good friend at any particular time - lots of these - and where one got on with the other members of a group which shared a common interest - in my case that being lots of outdoor stuff. But such friendships are often quite close, since one's life might depend on the trust between them.

 

[Trailblazer]

I wish I did believe in some afterlife, as although no doubt my mother knew that I and my brothers loved her very much, I could at least express this better and show her my gratitude for all that she did for us. She deserved a better end than dementia.

Dementia is such a curse, but there are so many things like that in this life... I wish I could feel more gratitude for my mother, I am sure she deserves it, but all too often I just think it was a mistake for her to have children at all...
I am sure there is an afterlife, although I am not always too happy about it... This life has been so difficult, it is hard to imagine a better one.

Nope. Friends but no family of my own, although I have at least two friends with long-lasting relationships (married) who never had children for various reasons. I never even had the relationships though.

It is good you have friends. Anymore, I only have online friends but they are still friends.
So, you were never married? It was an accident of fate that I got married and still am 33 years later, given we only knew each other for 3 weeks before we got married. It has not always been smooth sailing, as both of us have childhood issues.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Dementia is such a curse, but there are so many things like that in this life... I wish I could feel more gratitude for my mother, I am sure she deserves it, but all too often I just think it was a mistake for her to have children at all...
I am sure there is an afterlife, although I am not always too happy about it... This life has been so difficult, it is hard to imagine a better one.

It is good you have friends. Anymore, I only have online friends but they are still friends.
So, you were never married? It was an accident of fate that I got married and still am 33 years later, given we only knew each other for 3 weeks before we got married. It has not always been smooth sailing, as both of us have childhood issues.

One tends to get used to being on one's own but I do enjoy company when it comes. I should be more pro-social and get out more. At one time I simply lacked motivation to do so but that seems to have vanished now but it doesn't get any easier to make friends as one ages - not the lasting sort. I'm trying at the moment to rekindle some friendships that have just been token friendships rather than being engaged.

 

[Trailblazer]

One tends to get used to being on one's own but I do enjoy company when it comes. I should be more pro-social and get out more. At one time I simply lacked motivation to do so but that seems to have vanished now but it doesn't get any easier to make friends as one ages - not the lasting sort. I'm trying at the moment to rekindle some friendships that have just been token friendships rather than being engaged.

I see enough people at work for 40 hours so the last thing I want is to see any more people after work, but if I was retired I would probably get out more. I had a good Buddhist friend I lost track of a couple of years ago when my hard drive crashed and I lost all my e-mails and his e-mail address... I really liked that guy so I might have to call him eventually.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I see enough people at work for 40 hours so the last thing I want is to see any more people after work, but if I was retired I would probably get out more. I had a good Buddhist friend I lost track of a couple of years ago when my hard drive crashed and I lost all my e-mails and his e-mail address... I really liked that guy so I might have to call him eventually.

The internet certainly helps. One meets the nicest people too.

 

[Trailblazer]

The internet certainly helps. One meets the nicest people too.

Ditto on that...

 

[Mock Turtle]

Ditto on that...

Since, as you pointed out, our lives do quite mirror each other, with our beliefs often being in conflict, I suggest we compromise on said beliefs so as to remove anything separating us. So I suggest you halve your beliefs and I will do the same. How about that?

 

[Trailblazer]

Since, as you pointed out, our lives do quite mirror each other, with our beliefs often being in conflict, I suggest we compromise on said beliefs so as to remove anything separating us. So I suggest you halve your beliefs and I will do the same. How about that?

I would like to remove any barriers that separate us but I am not sure what you mean by halve.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I would like to remove any barriers that separate us but I am not sure what you mean by halve.

Well, I mean, you seem to have a belief that there is worth in all or most religions, whilst I have none. So if you reduce this down to half and I do the same ... I think I win.

I am a horrible cheat too.

 

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer said: I would like to remove any barriers that separate us but I am not sure what you mean by halve.

Well, I mean, you seem to have a belief that there is worth in all or most religions, whilst I have none. So if you reduce this down to half and I do the same ... I think I win.

I am a horrible cheat too.

If I reduce the religions down to half then you have to go from zero up to half, in order to meet me in the middle. That is how I see it anyway...

 

[Mock Turtle]

If I reduce the religions down to half then you have to go from zero up to half, in order to meet me in the middle. That is how I see it anyway...

No no no .. that's not how I play.

Oh, alright then - I'll just make up some, just like the others do.