Which Religion is For Me?

[xkatz]

@Yosef the Heretic no, like i said i dont have much religious knowledge, that is, on specific religions, i have philosophical knowledge and i want too mix the two, i think pagans worship nature? but i know nothing else of them.

If you want to know more about Paganism, the best way to do so IMO is to talk to people on these forums. They are by far the best way to get info on Paganism/Neo-Paganism. The Pagans/Neo Pagans on these forums are nice people and they don't bite

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Like I said, I invite you to ask me any questions about Kemeticism- Ancient Egyptian Religion

 

[coolkeg]

i dont want to read loads of books on religion because on the whole they are very similar, similar morals, similar ethics and generally similar gods (in Abrahamic religions (the big 3)) im looking for a religion that can give me some guidance on imagination and consciousness and also has a open mind on what god actually is, not to say its infinite but to say that maybe we exist in a larger realm than just the physical realm, to admit for now that we exist as the most advanced form of life which gives some sort of god status, does anybody know of any religions that preach god as being us within a combined consciousness? that is to say that together we could be god(or at least until the real one shows its face).

 

[Luminous]

Though to be more specific and responsive: I can only guess that consciousness and imagination are simply labels for something that already happens. As to why they exist, or your desire for them to be separate and different from all other existance, i could hardly say. as to your desire to debate, some can say it will inevitably lead to suffering. You will find that winning an argument may only require volume and length. consciousness exists just as our sense of sight exists, imagination exists just for the same reason that memory and thought exist. Finding a religion that agrees with your philosophy and then explains your ability to perseive yourself(consciousness) and the non-existant(imagination) may be hard, or it may be easy...depending on what you consider to be a good explanation of perseption. but in the end, i cannot bring myself to understand how you have managed to make such a lowly unfullfilled desire become the cause of so much suffering for yourself. It is best to let go of selfish and wanton desires and accept realities. Though i could imagine or find many explanations for why we have perseption, or what it even is, it would inevitably be up to you to decide whether they have merit...i myself believe that science is a great tool in agnosticism that allows us to explain many things. trying to explain perseption (the self) to you is or would be very hard for "another." though science might explain that they (consciousness and imagination) arise by simply existential means, just like our other abilities, it may be hard to imagine how "chemicals and electricity" could create a thought... i think of it the same way temperature and water molecules and sound waves can create snow flakes.

 

[xkatz]

i dont want to read loads of books on religion because on the whole they are very similar, similar morals, similar ethics and generally similar gods (in Abrahamic religions (the big 3))

Well books still might help somewhat... But if you don't really want to I would still browsing the internet and also talking to people. People can really expand your horizons and give you perspectives/view points you never thought of before :yes:

 

[coolkeg]

i dont want to seem offensive at all, but im not looking for any far fetched religions. i have the utmost respect for most religions and what they stand for, however i did state at the beginning that i was looking for specific information on imagination and consciousness, if Kemeticism has any knowledge on these subjects i would be more than happy to listen and if the views i receive seem logical or at least sort my head out a little bit, then id be a happy convert, i am rather sceptical of most religions as they are all rather far fetched, but i dont intend on believing everything i get told, but which ever religion can answer to me the hardest questions, then they win my vote

 

[coolkeg]

@Luminous some interesting arguments put forward there, i would like to try and explain why im so ermmmm obsessed over imagination, its going to be hard to express exactly what i mean but try and overstand it anyway, ok basically we are told from a scientific point of view that life started x amount of years ago because of a extreamly rare event, 10 to the power of 500000 or so rare(not precise but for argument sake), this may be hard for some people to comprehend myself included, how any sort of chemicals and energy come together to form an organic life form is beside me, but apparently thats what happened, so anyway, 2 billion years later and here we are, intelligent, conscious and self aware beings that can do maths and love and hate people, my obsession with imagination arises when you question how the most basic of organism came to become us, if you think you have somehow comprehended this as some natural process then go and re-read your books because there's gaps everywhere and from where im standing the only thing that doesnt exist but probably will is things that you create in your imagination, to me it seems a missing link that people having put in the puzzle, but even if this piece fits, it doesnt explain what the imagination actually is or why or how or when or where we got this special ability, it seems, almost undoubtedly, that our imagination is single handedly progressing homosapians weather if just for their own lifetime or the progression of life forms itself, maybe you overstand my obsession with the imagination now?

 

[coolkeg]

@Luminous
"i cannot bring myself to understand how you have managed to make such a lowly unfullfilled desire become the cause of so much suffering for yourself"

bertrand russel had a unfullfilled desire for logic and 50 years later we use his and others overstanding of logic to create machines that will eventually out think us, only a few pieces of the puzzle left

 

[coolkeg]

oooooooooooooh forgot to say god only exists because of imagination .....where else would it exist? theres certainly no evidence for it in the physical realm

 

[coolkeg]

some one please help me out here, i feel like im in the corner on my own, other people must have thought into imagination before?

 

[Luminous]

There is a lot less gaps than you might think: US team creates first ’synthetic life’ // Current ... evolution is quite imaginable, i would assume, as a process...imagination itself may be something more obscure that you may have to dig more deeply to find any answers on.

 

[Madhuri]

@Madhuri Time and maths are infinite yes so in a way existence of say matter is to some extent infinite, however im not quite sure how you comprehend time but if you could for a second imagine that if the chaos of the universe was to slow down and eventually the law of gravity bring things back to unity, change wont actually exist therefor neither would time (as time is change?) and even though the matter of an object may still exist, it isnt changing so it would be infinity doing nothing....if this is your god then cool, mine i hope, has a little more about it than infinity being....

There is no point where matter will infinitely be doing nothing, as you said. Look for videos on Carl Sagan. He explains the cylce of creation and destruction of the material universe in conjunction with the Hindu concept.

I think it is amusing that you think God could have more to him than being infinite...
I question your understanding of infinite. It does not only relate to time and space, it relates to -infinite things-. That includes qualities, forms, expressions etc.
Neither is God limited to matter. Matter is derived from Spirit, and Spirit is eternal (according to this philosophy of course).

 

[Runewolf1973]

Take your nonsense elsewhere, this is no place for forcing perceptions down upon a stronger willed mind.

I agree.

 

[coolkeg]

If were talking about infinity were talking about only one thing, mathematics, for example something cant infinity exist without it being assigned a number as it changes, for example lets use time, time as we know it can be defined as the passing of change and here on earth the passing of change happens and at a somewhat constant speed, a second passes at the same speed for everyone weather or not you perceived existing in that second differently to the person next to you, the second exists the same for us, then a second becomes 2 and 2 becomes 3 and time goes on infinitely until change ceases to happen, you laugh at the fact i denounce god as infinite, this may be laughable to you but im not sure of your comprehension of mathematics, infinity is solely a mathematical term that relates to a number incrementing indefinitely, this being said, if you are defining god as infinity you are actually defining god as being maths, your god is maths and this idea i shall deny, i imagine god as being the creator of maths therfor he created infinity and is over and above it, for example say god was a creator, he sits there all day creating things, he came up with a set of laws that govern our universe then put a very basic organism upon a random planet within this universe, now as god created the laws that govern this universe (mathematical laws) it seems sensible to presume that he wrote something within these laws which allowed infinity to exist, i.e. with time or existence, but its just as logical to think that even though he created us and such, doesnt mean his life form is even alive any more, so he created us with some super complex formula of relativity but then died of over exhaustion of his brain to create us, how then is he infinite? infinite in the existence of us? doesn't that just make us god?or doesnt it just make our computers that can also create infinity god?

 

[839311]

if you can somehow explain in some greater terms what exactly your god is (relative to its respected religion) and how it sheds some light into what my consciousness and imagination actually is and why i even have these 2 properties

My faith is very general. When I pray, I pray to God, Gods, Jesus, all beings of the light, and all beings to whom it is good to pray. I keep it general because I don’t know what really exists, and so I try to consider a lot of different beings, eventually getting general to the point that I pray to all beings to whom it is good to pray, which covers all the ones I want to pray to. I also accept the possibility that God or Gods may not exist, and that Jesus may not exist. I pray to Jesus because I was Christian for a long time, and the Jesus of the new testament is my greatest teacher and so is an important part of my life - whether or not he really did live, and if he did live (which I think is likely), whether or not what is attributed to him and about him in the new testament is actually accurate and true, or mostly accurate, or even slightly accurate and true.

I do this because I don’t know who or what it is I’m praying to, but hope that there is some good power(s) out there that hear(s) my prayers.

Unfortunately, my faith doesn’t help me comprehend my consciousness.

However, like you I sought answers to big questions, many of which were about the soul/life/consciousness. I couldn’t find the answers. But pondering these questions did lead me to a kind of enlightenment. I use that term very cautiously, because it is very vague, and because I don’t exactly know what happened to me. It was a kind of change in how I felt and thought, and I suppose that is as accurate as I can get, hence why I like the term enlightenment. In any case, I couldn’t find the answers, and yet these questions occupied my thoughts to a great extent. I reached a point where I realized that mystery is an ever-present part of reality. Some things are simply impossible to know. If you think you’ve figured it all out, there could always be another part of reality that you have no knowledge of, that could be impossible for us to know about – but this unknown reality could interact with our part of reality in important ways, and possibly hold the true answer to consciousness and imagination. Accepting that mystery will always be a part of reality gave me a kind of peace. I knew that no matter how much I looked, how much I learned, how wise I became, I would never reach a complete understanding of such things as consciousness and imagination, because mystery makes such complete understanding impossible. But it is in the very knowledge and acceptance that such understanding is impossible to acquire, that you can find peace, as I did.

 

[Madhuri]

If were talking about infinity were talking about only one thing, mathematics, for example something cant infinity exist without it being assigned a number as it changes, for example lets use time, time as we know it can be defined as the passing of change and here on earth the passing of change happens and at a somewhat constant speed, a second passes at the same speed for everyone weather or not you perceived existing in that second differently to the person next to you, the second exists the same for us, then a second becomes 2 and 2 becomes 3 and time goes on infinitely until change ceases to happen, you laugh at the fact i denounce god as infinite, this may be laughable to you but im not sure of your comprehension of mathematics, infinity is solely a mathematical term that relates to a number incrementing indefinitely, this being said, if you are defining god as infinity you are actually defining god as being maths, your god is maths and this idea i shall deny, i imagine god as being the creator of maths therfor he created infinity and is over and above it, for example say god was a creator, he sits there all day creating things, he came up with a set of laws that govern our universe then put a very basic organism upon a random planet within this universe, now as god created the laws that govern this universe (mathematical laws) it seems sensible to presume that he wrote something within these laws which allowed infinity to exist, i.e. with time or existence, but its just as logical to think that even though he created us and such, doesnt mean his life form is even alive any more, so he created us with some super complex formula of relativity but then died of over exhaustion of his brain to create us, how then is he infinite? infinite in the existence of us? doesn't that just make us god?or doesnt it just make our computers that can also create infinity god?

I have to admit that I find it difficult to see logic in what you are saying.
I will remind you of what I said earlier: God is both the Creator and the Created. So yes, God is 'maths', God is the laws of nature, God is the tree and the soil and animal and the building. But God is much, much more than that. God is the Whole. The Everything. But what is everything? Is there a limit to what exists? Or does existence and those things that exist infinite? Is there any end? Well, according to Vedic understanding, there is no end in sight. There is unlimited existence. and because existence is not separate from God, then God is unlimited.

I am going to provide some definitions of Infinite from dictionary.com:

in·fi·nite

   /ˈɪn

fə

nɪt/ Show Spelled[in-fuh-nit] Show IPA
–adjective 1. immeasurably great: an infinite capacity for forgiveness.

2. indefinitely or exceedingly great: infinite sums of money.

3. unlimited or unmeasurable in extent of space, duration of time, etc.: the infinite nature of outer space.

4. unbounded or unlimited; boundless; endless: God's infinite mercy.

5. Mathematics. a. not finite.

b. (of a set) having elements that can be put into one-to-one correspondence with a subset that is not the given set.




–noun 6. something that is infinite.

7. Mathematics. an infinite quantity or magnitude.

8. the boundless regions of space.

9. the Infinite (Being), God.

 

[coolkeg]

@839311 thanks for the reply, it was an in depth look into your beliefs as well as shedding a bit of light on figuring out some of the bigger questions, i agree with you that it is probable that its impossible to ever understand imagination or the full extent of our consciousness, however i would like imagination to get a bit more credit in religious circles, i came to this site for answers on important questions and all i got was that nobody quite understands it, which is fair enough, yet isnt it strange that religion hasnt given one iota to the power that created it, such a shame really...

 

[dust1n]

@books i could read books and ive read many, but id prefer a debate on such an important subject rather than read a book or two and presume i understand all there is to know

Well, I don't know how much I can offer you; I have not read anything about or done any of my own research into the understanding of how consciousness arises and how imagination plays into it. My debating would be rather pointless if I did not know anything about the subject.

It does appear to me that consciousness has slowly risen through humanoids as their skulls slowly got larger allowing more brain mass to build; ultimately, increasing the amount of information the being can process. Once the brain is able of processing information at a certain speed, it can analyze information [compare and contrast, memorize, problem solve, etc.] Imagination is the ability do discern what one does not have as entities. I'm sure this as served well in the role of evolutionarily benefit as it enables us to strive for what we do not know.

But like I said. I do not know and this is speculation on my part.

 

[Runewolf1973]

As for the opening post.... You could look into Animism. As an animist, I don't worship any gods, and am in fact an atheist and not "religious". I see everything that exists in this universe to be basically energy....energy that is vibrational and animate. I believe that energy is "animate" because all energy is "conscious". I believe there are different levels of consciounsess, but ultimately consciousness is the ability to act and react to things which is what energy does. As humans, we have a more evolved/advanced form of actions/reactions and therefore a higher level of consciousness. I believe that even a simple rock has consciousness too, but it is very minimal and not evolved like our own. After all, everything evolves over time...as far as I'm conscerned consciousness can evolve/change too. Think about when you drop a rock on a hard surface the sound it makes...there is an action and reaction....that ability to "react" is consciousness, awareness. You dropped the rock, the rock responded, it gave a reaction. If there was no consciousness, energy would not be energy. Furthermore,I do not believe in life as a separate distinct thing from energy... Life is simply energy changing form...therefore in all actuality, there is no "life" as we understand it, only energy in it's various forms. If there is no "life", only energy changing form, then there is no such thing as "death" either, only energy changing form.

I think my idea of Animism is a little different than most, but it works for me. That's it. Don't think that you absolutely need a religion...just go with what feels right for you.

 

[coolkeg]

@Madhuri ok ill sum up what i was saying so its a little simpler, if our creator sat on a computer and created a universe with all the laws that govern us today as well as coding chemicals to react relativly and he did this in an extremely powerful machine but then died from over work (comprehending all this maths was a tough game) but the machine runs infinity(capturing some source of energy(probable electricity))then our creator(god?) would be dead and we would be existing infinitely(your god) inside a machine that we cant ever escape only replicate for our own purposes and only when the knowledge is there