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Which Religion is For Me?
- Thread starter coolkeg
- Start date
Runewolf1973
Materialism/Animism
The way I see it, everything that exists is composed of something, call it "starstuff" if you will. It moves and is animate for some reason, even atoms are vibrational and animate for some reason. I really have no other word to describe this "everything" besides energy. If it is not energy...what then is it? I don't believe it is "god". I don't believe it is "supernatural". Perhaps what it is cannot actually be put into words...or perhaps that's what "god" is.
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dust1n
Zindīq
Agreed. I doubt we will fully understand. Consciousness in and of itself just implies perception, which most animals (I imagine) have to some degree. I think self-consciousness is where things get a little crazy. I looked around a bit; found some suggestions that reflective consciousness saves energy (like a gearshift) opposed to pure 'subconscious' cognition.
"Consciousness can be viewed from the standpoints of evolutionary psychology or evolutionary biology approach as an adaptation because it is a trait that increases fitness.[37] Consciousness also adheres to John Alcock's theory of animal behavioral adaptations because it possesses both proximate and ultimate causes.[38] The proximate causes for consciousness, i.e. how consciousness evolved in animals, is a subject considered by Sir John C. Eccles in his paper "Evolution of consciousness." He argues that special anatomical and physical properties of the mammalian cerebral cortex gave rise to consciousness.[39] Budiansky, by contrast, limits consciousness to humans, proposing that human consciousness may have evolved as an adaptation to anticipate and counter social strategems of other humans, predators, and prey.[40]
Alternatively, it has been argued that the recursive circuitry underwriting consciousness is much more primitive, having evolved initially in premammalian species because it improves the capacity for interaction with both social and natural environments by providing an energy-saving "neutral" gear in an otherwise energy-expensive motor output machine.[41] Another theory, proposed by Shaun Nichols and Todd Grantham, proposes that it is unnecessary to trace the exact evolutionary or causal role of phenomenal consciousness because the complexity of phenomenal consciousness alone implies that it is an adaptation.[42] Once in place, this recursive circuitry may well have provided a basis for the subsequent development of many of the functions that consciousness facilitates in higher organisms, as outlined by Bernard J. Baars.[43] Konrad Lorenz sees the roots of consciousness in the process of self-exploration of an organism that sees itself acting and learns a lifetime."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness#Cognitive_psychology_and_cognitive_neuroscience
But why are you saying this? It does not represent the Vedic understanding. Is it your God concept?
@dust1n thanks for the reply, yeh animal consciousness is presumed non existent by most humans generally because of our intelligence is alot larger so its easy to push the less intelligent down, im reading an interesting phycological book about consciousness and currently reading about animals levels of consciousness, monkeys and dolphins are especially capable, even showing signs of empathy and emotion as well as the abillity to communicate and read each others physical emotions
I'm not sure how to respond to that.
Perhaps you can tell me why you believe this and what you understand about 'levels' in this context?
So start by explaining to me what mathematics is.
i believe in levels in this aspect, we live in our universe, we observe it and we are aware of things within the universe such as ourselves, other animals, food, sex etc etc, this would be level ZERO, its our neutral, its where we exist, anything below that level is smaller than us, anything positive is bigger, lets expand this idea to something relivant in physics today, ok so quantum physics is the smallest physics that currently exists, under a microscope it exists as bits of matter either not being in reality, being in reality or a duplicate in reality (2 of the same pieces of matter) now what i believe or atleast can comprehend is that if we could zoom in a little more and caputre the phenomon of quantum physics on a camera and play it back really slowly, we might find that what our universe exists as is happening at that quantum level and we can see a universe explode and implode in the space of less than a non second (with life living and dieing within that nano second of that quantum physical universe) then this is a regress, that quantum physical universe has a quantum physical universe and so on, next is the positive, this is what most would define as our god, this is the reality our universe probably makes up much the same as ours is made up from our own quantum physics, we are part of a quantum reaction (life and the universe) of a much larger reality, that which our gods live, if anything lives there, and then there reality makes up a bigger reality and so on, the levels can expand infinitely, life therfor may also be handed some meaning to their life here, for life perhaps may have to exists to reform the universe, bring it back to its natural shape before the cycle restarts, life starts again and off we go....
dust1n
Zindīq
I have also recognized this disregard for animal consciousness.
Though, I have read many accounts of monkeys acting out ethics (monkey saving monkey from death in water), etc. that really only make sense as a primitive form of what our qualia now is. Cheers.
mathamatics is solely something that can be figured out by numbers alone, no language, no emotions, theres also a very important branch of mathematics which is more relevant when talking about god and that ovcourse is logic, logic being the difference between true and false, existing and not existing, mathematics may not exist how you presume it does either, for example you may say that 21 + 21 = 42 but really it = 10, this is because were working with base 2 numbers rather than base 10 and the mathematics all of a sudden changes, the rules change and everything becomes different, the most simple of number systems is base(1(LOGICS)) our current time system is a mix between a few different numbering systems and the human brain works with base(10(DECIMAL)) another point to make here is that mathematics cant be wrong if 2+2 then it will always = 4
mathematics is infinite in the sense we (as humans) could never find an end to the numbers we can create, computers are still limited even thought they can create over something like 10 to the power of 10000000000000 this number is still limited, also using mathematics is infinite as far as the possibilities are concerned, just look at your screen and you may comprehend what im talking about, your computer is working in 1's and 0's yet your reading me fine?
mathematics is infinite in the sense we (as humans) could never find an end to the numbers we can create, computers are still limited even thought they can create over something like 10 to the power of 10000000000000 this number is still limited, also using mathematics is infinite as far as the possibilities are concerned, just look at your screen and you may comprehend what im talking about, your computer is working in 1's and 0's yet your reading me fine?
Runewolf1973
Materialism/Animism
In all honesty, it's not all that complicated....it's just really hard to explain. I thought evolution/science already explained how/why we are here...why do you need religion?
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Coolkeg, you need to work on your grammar because I am finding it difficult to follow what you say.
Something you might find interesting is that the concept of infinity was first thought up by someone in India and can be found referenced in Vedic texts.
What we need to address here is that the concept of infinite is not just mathematical, it is also physical and philosophical. I can only speculate, but in dealing with a God concept, we may be dealing with all three areas.
I am no mathematician and I understand the concept on a purely philosophical context. I understand it as relating to time and space and energy etc. I understand it quite simply as limitlessness, neverending and beyond complete comprehension. I have just read this online, and I think it interesting although I do not really understand the concepts enough to know how valid it is:
The Pythagoreans imagined that numbers constitute the true nature of things. Max Tegmark has explored the idea that "all structures that exist mathematically exist also physically". What form might experimental evidence for infinity take?
If all structures that exist mathemmatically also exist physically; coulnt the nonphysical represent infinity? - Jas.
http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_infinity
Something you might find interesting is that the concept of infinity was first thought up by someone in India and can be found referenced in Vedic texts.
What we need to address here is that the concept of infinite is not just mathematical, it is also physical and philosophical. I can only speculate, but in dealing with a God concept, we may be dealing with all three areas.
I am no mathematician and I understand the concept on a purely philosophical context. I understand it as relating to time and space and energy etc. I understand it quite simply as limitlessness, neverending and beyond complete comprehension. I have just read this online, and I think it interesting although I do not really understand the concepts enough to know how valid it is:
The Pythagoreans imagined that numbers constitute the true nature of things. Max Tegmark has explored the idea that "all structures that exist mathematically exist also physically". What form might experimental evidence for infinity take?
If all structures that exist mathemmatically also exist physically; coulnt the nonphysical represent infinity? - Jas.
http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_infinity
I found an article that might provide some insight:
Infinity: The Infinite Nature Of Our Universe
Infinite translated in Sanskrit is anant which means 'without end'. Mathematically speaking, infinity is an indeterminate quantity and has two values - one positive and the other, negative. In Sanskrit these values are described as anaadi and anant , that is, without beginning and without end. Any discussion on this topic can only reveal human ignorance and so humble and inspire us to becoming better human beings.
In the Bhagavad Gita (10.3), Krishna mentions the anaadi and anant aspect of Himself: "He who knows me in reality as birth-less and without beginning and as the supreme lord of the infinite universe, he, undeluded among men, is purged of all sins." In fact, anything that is infinite can be said to be divine. Arjuna was made to realise this infinite aspect of God when Krishna revealed his supremely glorious divine form to Arjuna.
A discussion on the concept of infinity will be incomplete without including the concept of shoonya or zero. Mathematically, zero is the point where positive and negative infinity meet. Krishna says to Arjuna (10.20): "Arjuna, I am the universal self seated in the heart of all beings; So I alone am the beginning and middle and also the end of all beings". So nothingness is also a form of God. Zero divided by any finite quantity leads once again to zero. That means zero is the ultimate form of indestructibility. When Krishna reveals himself to Arjuna in his viraat form, Arjuna says: "You are the supreme indestructible worthy of being known" (Gita 10.18).
The thought that we are a negligible part of this infinite world is humbling. It should, in fact, inspire us to be more sensitive to and mindful of the other creations of God. But from the point of view of say, a bacterium, we human beings would appear to be infinitely huge. So size is relative - something can be described as being big or small, intelligent or super-intelligent, powerful or weak, depending entirely on the perception of the perceiver. All this gives rise to mithya or falsehood.
So there is really no reason why we should not look upon all of God's creations as being equal. A tiny atom contains within it the devastating power of an atom bomb. It is composed of a solar system-like configuration of electrons encircling its nucleus made of protons and neutrons. A powerful body like a black hole has infinite density - its one minuscule particle could outweigh entire earth.
Vishnu as the little Vamana revealed the infinite power contained within a small form. The midget-like Vamana occupied the entire universe in just three footsteps. The purpose of the lord appearing in the avatar of Vamana was to humble the powerful king, Bali, who was overcome by ego, ahankar . Ancient Indian scriptures narrate several instances revealing the divinity of the small, sookshma and the big, viraat .
Science, too, tells us that the universe is unfathomable and infinite. The Big Bang theory and the theories of an expanding and contracting universe establish that there is a ceaseless ongoing rhythm of creation and destruction. Indian tradition describes this evocatively in the cosmic dance of Shiva. As Nataraja, the king of dance, Shiva is both the creator and destroyer.
According to Hindu mythology, after every kalpa or 4.32 billion human years, Shiva opens his third (divine) eye and destroys the universe. The tandava nritya is an expression of the joy of fulfilment on completion of the five kritya s: Srishti or creation, sthiti or preservation, samahara or destruction, tirodhana or illusion and anugraha or moksha . This cosmic cycle of creation and destruction of the universe is beginningless and endless.
Infinity: The Infinite Nature Of Our Universe
Infinity: The Infinite Nature Of Our Universe
Infinite translated in Sanskrit is anant which means 'without end'. Mathematically speaking, infinity is an indeterminate quantity and has two values - one positive and the other, negative. In Sanskrit these values are described as anaadi and anant , that is, without beginning and without end. Any discussion on this topic can only reveal human ignorance and so humble and inspire us to becoming better human beings.
In the Bhagavad Gita (10.3), Krishna mentions the anaadi and anant aspect of Himself: "He who knows me in reality as birth-less and without beginning and as the supreme lord of the infinite universe, he, undeluded among men, is purged of all sins." In fact, anything that is infinite can be said to be divine. Arjuna was made to realise this infinite aspect of God when Krishna revealed his supremely glorious divine form to Arjuna.
A discussion on the concept of infinity will be incomplete without including the concept of shoonya or zero. Mathematically, zero is the point where positive and negative infinity meet. Krishna says to Arjuna (10.20): "Arjuna, I am the universal self seated in the heart of all beings; So I alone am the beginning and middle and also the end of all beings". So nothingness is also a form of God. Zero divided by any finite quantity leads once again to zero. That means zero is the ultimate form of indestructibility. When Krishna reveals himself to Arjuna in his viraat form, Arjuna says: "You are the supreme indestructible worthy of being known" (Gita 10.18).
The thought that we are a negligible part of this infinite world is humbling. It should, in fact, inspire us to be more sensitive to and mindful of the other creations of God. But from the point of view of say, a bacterium, we human beings would appear to be infinitely huge. So size is relative - something can be described as being big or small, intelligent or super-intelligent, powerful or weak, depending entirely on the perception of the perceiver. All this gives rise to mithya or falsehood.
So there is really no reason why we should not look upon all of God's creations as being equal. A tiny atom contains within it the devastating power of an atom bomb. It is composed of a solar system-like configuration of electrons encircling its nucleus made of protons and neutrons. A powerful body like a black hole has infinite density - its one minuscule particle could outweigh entire earth.
Vishnu as the little Vamana revealed the infinite power contained within a small form. The midget-like Vamana occupied the entire universe in just three footsteps. The purpose of the lord appearing in the avatar of Vamana was to humble the powerful king, Bali, who was overcome by ego, ahankar . Ancient Indian scriptures narrate several instances revealing the divinity of the small, sookshma and the big, viraat .
Science, too, tells us that the universe is unfathomable and infinite. The Big Bang theory and the theories of an expanding and contracting universe establish that there is a ceaseless ongoing rhythm of creation and destruction. Indian tradition describes this evocatively in the cosmic dance of Shiva. As Nataraja, the king of dance, Shiva is both the creator and destroyer.
According to Hindu mythology, after every kalpa or 4.32 billion human years, Shiva opens his third (divine) eye and destroys the universe. The tandava nritya is an expression of the joy of fulfilment on completion of the five kritya s: Srishti or creation, sthiti or preservation, samahara or destruction, tirodhana or illusion and anugraha or moksha . This cosmic cycle of creation and destruction of the universe is beginningless and endless.
Infinity: The Infinite Nature Of Our Universe
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