Which religion offers the right path to God?

[Gharib]

Mr K.Venugopal and myself are having a discussion about which religion has the right path to God and what is it about that particular religion that makes it true or sets it appart from the rest. (i think thats what we are discussing )

so anyways we started the discussion in another thread and was hopping if a staff member could bring our old posts here just so everyone gets a picture of whats going on. i will post the link to the other thread here in a short moment

one thing i would appreciate from other members who intend to post here, is to please keep it civilised. i'm sure K.Venugopal would appreciate that as much as me.

and i believe it was my turn to answer.

the link to the other thread is: peace b upon u and the posts are #5,9,25,26. thanks to whoever will copy them here

 

[England my lionheart]

Welcome Bassant. May I ask this question which might be tough considering you are very young. Why do you qualify your being a Muslim AND respecting all religions by starting your statement with "Although"? Does it mean that by and large Muslims do not respect other religions? In my case I would say "I am a Hindu and therefore I respect all religions." Pardon my question if you think it is unfair. I would apologize.

i appologise to both K.Venugopal and the sister for answering this, but since this is quite an interesting question i just had to give it a go.

there are muslims who do not respect other religions due to lack of islamic view points. whether thats a large or small number, i can't say. however, it is a commandement from Allah (swt) and the prophet (saws) that we respect other religions and their concept of god, even though we believe they are wrong. the quran states that we deal with non muslims in the best possible way (or something like that) ie. not to offend their beliefs. and a hadith of the prophet says that we must not offend non muslims about their god in order that they do the same and don't offend us with our belief in god.

i personally know muslims who would never read the bible or any other scripture due to thinking that if they did so, they would become a christian and there is nothing in islam that say one becomes a non muslim if they read a scripture other than the quran. so there is islamic ignorance when it comes to respecting other beliefs.

Why should it be that there is only one path to Allah? Doesn’t all roads lead to Rome? According to me claims such as (1) all men are gods (2) specific men were Allah (3) nature is Allah (4) Allah is a figment of man's imagination are all valid hypothesis towards the end that such hypothesis seek to lead. For example, when it is said that men are gods, it is the understanding of such teaching that all men have the divine in them. The teaching does not simply say “all men are gods” and let the statement hang in the air. It is but a part of the teaching that teaches, apart from other things, the oneness of existence, the theories of involution and evolution etc. Likewise “Allah is a figment of man’s imagination” can be understood in the context of man’s primary approach to truth from the mode of duality, where God is seen as outside the subject – like an idol. Later on, when it is realized that we are the God that we have been seeking/worshiping, then we wake up from the dream of separation. So to arbitrarily say that something is wrong simply because it does not say exactly what the Quran says is to be uneducated as to man’s capacity to approach truth at many levels.
Again, I wish to say that just because an approach to truth differs from Islam’s approach, it would be unfair to call that approach untruth or a false religion. Jesus also said that his father and he are one. How do you know that Jesus is not worshipped on this count? By the way, Muslims make much of the word “worship”. Can you tell me what you mean by the word “worship”? I understand that in one hadith Mohammad said that even sex is worship, provided that it is done under the right circumstances. Therefore to consider someone’s worship of an idol as not worship at all is unfair. Particularly so when Islam itself, in its worship of Allah as an entity outside the worshiper, is indulging in idol worship.
As they say, you can’t hide light under a bushel. By the life Buddha lived, he has become worship-worthy in the eyes of millions. Why should anyone grudge that? If your objection is to the fact that Buddha is not God, please understand that the Buddhist concept of God is very different from Islam’s.
Please clarify this statement.

This surah in the Quran is itself a giveaway. First of all, is Allah saying this? If He was, he would have used the pronoun “I”. Here it is obvious that someone else is speaking in the name of Allah when he says “He has commanded that you…” And it is obvious who is saying it – none other than Mohammad himself. Therefore, it is but Mohammad’s opinion on the matter.
I for the life of me am unable to understand what exactly Muslims mean by the word “worship”. According to my understanding, worship as practiced by Muslims amounts to praise of Allah. Praising Allah is fine. But what is wrong in praising nature or idols if we invest our sense of divinity in it?
I think elsewhere in the Quran the intention is complete when it is said “that they may worship me and me alone”.
At more than one level, I can easily see that Islam itself is an idol worshiping religion. It has to be reformed to rise to its own ideal of being free from idol worship. This it can do if it adapts the principle of non-duality. So long as Islam is in the dual mode, it remains an idol worshiping religion. I would consider this as the most meaningless religious injunction ever in any religion. If Allah does not have partners, how can anyone “join partners” with Him? If anyone does that, it would only be a case of ignorance that calls for enlightenment and not a case of evil that calls for eternal punishment. This single injunction proves that the Quran is not really the word of God but that of Mohammad.
]Islam and Muslims:
What a shame.

This is like asking, “If all the languages are the same, which one would be the right one. The boot is on the other foot. It is Islam that is seeking to destroy other religions as its avowed aim. After all, aren’t all other religions guilty of “joining partners with Allah” and does not Allah hate it the most? Then what choice has all other religions except be destroyed by Allah or his loyal followers? No dear. There are ample terrorists of all religious persuasions, but rarely are they terrorists in the name of their religions. This honour is almost exclusive to Islam and some fringe elements in other religions. Jihad, among other things, also means war against disbelievers.

Islam does not permit apostasy. Including Allah?

 

[England my lionheart]

Continued from previous post
Originally Posted by K.Venugopal

Dear eselam, you are one of the few Muslims I have come across who is willing to take criticism of Islam in the right spirit and that is why I have made bold to say some things which might infuriate some Muslims. Please be assured that my criticism is not born out of any hatred towards Islam or Muslims. I sincerely believe that most Muslims have not heard of anything like “alternate medicines”. [/quote]

 

[Gharib]

oh can't you copy them as in the same way from there? as in the original post? i appologise about it if you can't i could have done this myself. i am very sorry england. you should have told me.

 

[zenzero]

Friend eselam,

Which religion offers the right path to God?

Though have no wish to waylay the thread meant for friend Venu & yourself.
However, just wanted to state that any RELIGION is just a PATH or WAY to know the *SELF*.
Followers of any PATH / WAY / RELIGION can reach that goal.
So a debate of which religion / path/ way is right, is itself meaningless.

Love & rgds

 

[Gharib]

just to make a note in some cases i may not be able to give answers. for example if i am asked to comment on a verse or hadith. i will try to ge relevant souces but cannot promise everything.

Originally Posted by K.Venugopal
Why should it be that there is only one path to Allah? Doesn’t all roads lead to Rome?

You can’t compare faith with roads just as you can’t compare Allah to rome. No one is comparable to Allah he is Al Wahid (The Unique) and Al Ahad (The One). Rome doesn’t care how you get there, it doesn’t reward you for getting there either. Now I know that quoting the quran as proof to non muslims doesn’t work, but here’s a verse for you anyway:

[3:19] The only religion approved by GOD is "Submission."……

I’m sure you know how companies work, the boss controls everything and everything must be done his way otherwise there is no salary at the end of the month. Same principle, Allah has sent his “way” (the quran) to us and if we want a reward at the end all we have to do is follow his rules, just like those of the company.

According to me claims such as (1) all men are gods (2) specific men were Allah (3) nature is Allah (4) Allah is a figment of man's imagination are all valid hypothesis

Then you have a contradiction with yourself as to what is really real.
1. If you were going to argue that all men are gods, then what’s the purpose of life?

2. If you are going to argue the second point, then how can god have human qualities. He (they) would be equal to all other men, thus we are back to the first point, either all men are gods or there is only one god about whom our knowledge is limited to what he has told us about himself. In this case Allah. He is the only One and Unique.

3. If we do the third point, then what do you mean by nature. What are you referring to?
Does that include all things in existence even men, being divine?

4. If we do the last one, then how did everything come to be in such a perfect order without a god who looks after all that exists and maintains it. Why do we even exist?

Here’s an example regarding this last one, the question is “Does Allah exist”:
The same question was asked, by an atheist, of Imam Abu Hanifa and he replied, "Forget it! At the moment, I am busy thinking about this ship. People tell me there is a big ship, it contains different goods on board. There is no one to steer it, no one maintaining it. Yet, this ship keeps going back and forth; it even traverses big waves on the oceans; it stops at the locations that it is supposed to stop at; it continues in the direction that it is supposed to head. This ship has no captain and no one planning its trips."

The atheist who posed the question interrupted and exclaimed, "What kind of strange and silly thought is this? How can any intelligent person think that some thing like this can occur?" Imam Abu Hanifa said, "I feel sorry about your state! You cannot imagine one ship running without some one looking after its affairs. Yet you think that for this whole world, which runs exactly and precisely, there is no one who looks after it, and no one owns it." Hearing the reply, the atheist was left speechless but he found out more about Al Haqq (The Truth) and proclaimed Islam.

For example, when it is said that men are gods, it is the understanding of such teaching that all men have the divine in them. The teaching does not simply say “all men are gods” and let the statement hang in the air. It is but a part of the teaching that teaches, apart from other things, the oneness of existence, the theories of involution and evolution etc.

But what would be the meaning of life in this case and how do we know that?
And seeing that god is in the idol as well as man, then why is man worshiping the part of god that is in the idol, instead of the idol worshiping the divine that is in man? isn't man more supperior to the idol because he created it?
Does god give an order that this should be done?

Likewise “Allah is a figment of man’s imagination” can be understood in the context of man’s primary approach to truth from the mode of duality, where God is seen as outside the subject – like an idol. Later on, when it is realized that we are the God that we have been seeking/worshiping, then we wake up from the dream of separation.

See we are back at the first point, all men are gods (divine). How has this reasoning that men are gods come to be considered an option or even a possibility? Is it because men are more superior, more complete than the other creatures on earth that we must be divine or is something else the starting point of this claim? I’ve never quite understood this about hinduism. And is it only humans that are divine or all living and non living things in existence?

 

[Gharib]

Friend eselam,



Though have no wish to waylay the thread meant for friend Venu & yourself.
However, just wanted to state that any RELIGION is just a PATH or WAY to know the *SELF*.
Followers of any PATH / WAY / RELIGION can reach that goal.
So a debate of which religion / path/ way is right, is itself meaningless.

Love & rgds

you are welcome to post zenzero, the thread doesn't have to be only about me and K.Venugopal.

as for your statement, i just like all other muslims do not believe that man is divine in any way. there can be one way that leads to god and that way is shown to us by god himself. man has no authority and power over the heavens and the earth, therefore we cannot dettermine which way is the right path without divine guidance. our own existence proves that man is nothing but a helpless creature.

 

[nameless]

[3:19] The only religion approved by GOD is "Submission."……

Same principle, Allah has sent his “way” (the quran) to us and if we want a reward at the end all we have to do is follow his rules, just like those of the company.[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]

what sort of reward we would get in paradise from allah for obeying him?

 

[Sunstone]

Is there a path to god?

 

[Gharib]

what sort of reward we would get in paradise from allah for obeying him?

would it be sufficent if i said things that the eye has not seen, the ear hasn't heard, the hand hasn't touched and the nose hasn't smelled.

or would you like to know exactly what some of the many things are?

edit forgot to say it is also etternal, a never ending reward

 

[Madhuri]

My opinion is that all religions lead to Truth. If God is truth, then we are all lead to God one way or another. The point of religion is that humans are trying to search for this truth. With a genuine interest in finding truth, we will all eventually find it. For me, Hinduism feels like home. It's my path, but it is only one of many paths.

 

[Gharib]

Is there a path to god?

yeah religion.

 

[Sunstone]

yeah religion.

Can you be sure of that?

 

[Zardoz]

There is no one right path. G-d makes many paths, each for a particular people. Sometimes, people make a path to G-d, in their own way.
Your path for you, my path for me. No one-size-fits-all.

 

[Gharib]

So to arbitrarily say that something is wrong simply because it does not say exactly what the Quran says is to be uneducated as to man’s capacity to approach truth at many levels.

I understand that, that’s why I am not using the quran as proof against other views such as the ones mentioned before. To you the quran is just some book as some other scripture is to me. Therefore it would be pointless to discard your views simply because the quran doesn’t support it. However I am basing my perspectives upon the teachings of islam.

Again, I wish to say that just because an approach to truth differs from Islam’s approach, it would be unfair to call that approach untruth or a false religion.

Yes I agree to that and will keep it in mind.

Jesus also said that his father and he are one. How do you know that Jesus is not worshipped on this count?

If the statement is taken literally one of the ways to interpret it would be that Jesus is saying he is god. But if that statement was the core belief of Christianity that Jesus is god, then what about Moses (as) saying:
“Holy Prophet Musa (AS) said to the children of Israel:"My Lord is with me." (26:62)
or what about Muhammed (saws):
On the occasion of migration to Madinah, the Holy Prophet (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) said to Sayyidna Abu Bakr (RA) “*Allah is with us.” (9:40)

That statement can go so many ways thus it makes it impossible to have one definite answer or understanding of it. In Islam Allah is close to every servant of his:

50:16 And indeed We have created man, and We know whatever thoughts his inner self develops, and We are closer to him than (his) jugular vein.
So just about any muslims can say “i and Allah are one” in the sense that Allah is always aware of what we do, we cannot escape him therefore we are one. The same understanding can be uplied to what Jesus (as) has said.
For a detailed explanation on that verse please go here


The Christians worship Jesus (as) due to the miracles he performed by the will of god. Even his birth was a miracle to start off with, so that just added to the idea that he is god or the son of god. Again thats 2 different interpretations of the same scene or event. While in the quran it says:
19:35 It is not conceivable that God should have taken unto Himself a son: limitless is He in His glory! When He wills a thing to be, He but says unto it "Be" -and it is!
19:36 And [thus it was that Jesus always said]: "Verily, God is my Sustainer as well as your Sustainer; so worship [none but] Him: this [alone] is a straight way."

 

[Gharib]

By the way, Muslims make much of the word “worship”. Can you tell me what you mean by the word “worship”? I understand that in one hadith Mohammad said that even sex is worship, provided that it is done under the right circumstances. Therefore to consider someone’s worship of an idol as not worship at all is unfair. Particularly so when Islam itself, in its worship of Allah as an entity outside the worshiper, is indulging in idol worship.

Yes I can tell you what is meant by the word “worship”. Have you ever heard of the word Ibadah?
Ibadah means “All acts of worship. Any permissible action performed with the intention to obey Allah.”
So using the hadith, having sex in the way that islam permits falls under the definition of Ibadah. It is an act of worship towards Allah, because it is done with the intention to obey Allah (the way he says it).
everything a muslim does in his daily life is considered ibadah (worship) if it is done in the way that Allah permits. And no one was or will be better at doing things with the intention to obey Allah than Muhamed (saws), thus Allah says:
“Indeed in the Messenger of Allah you have a good example to follow....(Qur'an 33:21).
And by this very verse, following Muhamed (saws) in the proper way or doing things the way he did, is also considered Ibadah towards Allah, because following Muhamed (saws) is something that, one could say, is liked by Allah or infact is a command to do so. But it is not Muhamed (saws) nor his actions that we are worshiping. Doing what he did is worshiping Allah. Everything Muhamed (saws) did was to please Allah.

as for “Therefore to consider someone’s worship of an idol as not worship at all is unfair.”
I’m hopping the above explanation gives you an idea as to why muslims think this. But just incase if it doesn’t I will elaborate here. The worship which muslims do, is in no way the same as the hindus form of worship in the idols. As I understand, Hinduism doesn’t worship the idol itself, but the divinity that is in the idol. Now muslims do not believe that man or any living creature is divine. Allah is a being that is unlike any thing we can imagine, if we try to imagine Allah, then he is the exact opposite of what we would imagine. For example Allah is Al Basir (the seer of all), now the nature of man leads to think that Allah has 2 eyes at the front of his head above the nose. But infact that is how his creation looks like, not Allah. Therefore Allah is the exact opposite ,of which we have no idea what or how that opposite looks like or functions. and concerning idol worshiping, in the quran Allah (swt) says:
4:48 VERILY, God does not forgive the ascribing of divinity to aught beside Him, although He forgives any lesser sin unto whomever He wills: for he who ascribes divinity to aught beside God has indeed contrived an awesome sin.
41:47 In Him alone is vested the knowledge of when the Last Hour will come. And no fruit bursts forth from its calyx, and no female ever conceives, nor ever gives birth, save with His knowledge. And so, on the Day when He shall call out to them, “Where, now, are those [alleged] partners of Mine?” - they will [surely] answer, “We confess unto Thee that none of us can bear witness [to anyone’s having a share in Thy divinity]!”
So us as muslims do not consider idol worshiping as worship due to such an act being the biggest sin there is. wich is ascribing partners to him.

 

[Gharib]

Can you be sure of that?

yes, quite sure.

 

[Gharib]

There is no one right path. G-d makes many paths, each for a particular people. Sometimes, people make a path to G-d, in their own way.
Your path for you, my path for me. No one-size-fits-all.

you would be right in islam about each particular people having their own path from god. but not nowadays. not since Muhammed (saws) was sent. do jews accept other religions as a possible true path to god?

 

[Gharib]

My opinion is that all religions lead to Truth. If God is truth, then we are all lead to God one way or another. The point of religion is that humans are trying to search for this truth. With a genuine interest in finding truth, we will all eventually find it. For me, Hinduism feels like home. It's my path, but it is only one of many paths.

i wanted to ask K.Venugopla about something related to hinduism, but will ask you instead and any hindu member can answer.

does hindiusm predict a prophet that has still not come? his name being Kalki Avatar. i have found something interesting about this that i would like to know what hindu followers feel/think about it.

 

[Madhuri]

i wanted to ask K.Venugopla about something related to hinduism, but will ask you instead and any hindu member can answer.

does hindiusm predict a prophet that has still not come? his name being Kalki Avatar. i have found something interesting about this that i would like to know what hindu followers feel/think about it.

Kalki is the final Avatar of God who appears in this world to rid it of 'evil'. It is predicted that this world will become like a hellish place with very bad people. He comes with a sword, ironically (reminds me of what is said about Jesus, when he comes back).

This is supposed to happen very far into the future. Many thousands of years from now.

Whether this does or does not happen literally, I have no real opinion. I think that many things are allegorical in scriptures and Kalki might be understood as something other than a man who kills people. I cannot claim to know.