Gharib
I want Khilafah back
nor would a muslim.
that reminds me of the crusades. the christians didn't kill the jews and muslims over their beliefs did they?
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Which religion offers the right path to God?
- Thread starter Gharib
- Start date
nor would a muslim.
that reminds me of the crusades. the christians didn't kill the jews and muslims over their beliefs did they?
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
to Madhuri and K.Venugopal
the verses that Zakir Naik was speaking of in his lecture are:
Yajurveda: chapter 3, verse 32
Ch 3, V 3
Ch 40, V 8
Ch 40, V9
Rigveda: Volume 8 chapter 1 verse 1
Volume 6 chapter 45 verse 16
he was asked whether islam considers the hindu scriptures to be from Allah. and he recited the above verses and said the scriptures of hinduism may have been from Allah when they were first revealed since in the quran Allah says:
35:24. Verily We have sent thee in truth, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner: and there never was a people, without a warner having lived among them (in the past).
13:7. And the Unbelievers say: "Why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?" But thou art truly a warner, and to every people a guide.
the above quranic verses say that all the people of the past were sent prophets and unlike all of them Muhamed (saws) is sent to all the people rather than just one particular group or country or race.
i have also found a website that has Zakir Naik's explanation regarding this, he talks about the similarities between islam and hinduism and makes mantione of many other verses which indicate that the scriptures of hindism may have been from Allah when they were first revealed in their monotheistic and dualistic nature.
the verses that Zakir Naik was speaking of in his lecture are:
Yajurveda: chapter 3, verse 32
Ch 3, V 3
Ch 40, V 8
Ch 40, V9
Rigveda: Volume 8 chapter 1 verse 1
Volume 6 chapter 45 verse 16
he was asked whether islam considers the hindu scriptures to be from Allah. and he recited the above verses and said the scriptures of hinduism may have been from Allah when they were first revealed since in the quran Allah says:
35:24. Verily We have sent thee in truth, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner: and there never was a people, without a warner having lived among them (in the past).
13:7. And the Unbelievers say: "Why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?" But thou art truly a warner, and to every people a guide.
the above quranic verses say that all the people of the past were sent prophets and unlike all of them Muhamed (saws) is sent to all the people rather than just one particular group or country or race.
i have also found a website that has Zakir Naik's explanation regarding this, he talks about the similarities between islam and hinduism and makes mantione of many other verses which indicate that the scriptures of hindism may have been from Allah when they were first revealed in their monotheistic and dualistic nature.
Hey Esalam, I will see if there is anything online for these that I can find.
Also, did you know that Hinduism is monotheistic?
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
is hinduism monotheistic?
what about all the gods?
The different Gods are all the same God. There is the One who expands him/herself into other manifestations. It would be like if you could make your self into two or more. But according to Hinduism, even the the entire universe is a manifestation of God's energy and so everything is part of God's body (so to speak). Every manifestation represents a different aspect or quality.
That is why Hinduism is generally non-dual. We see everything as part of God- nothing is seperate. There is no devil, no evil, no sin. Nothing can be against God.
There are of course some few Hindus who are dualistic and some who consider themselves polytheistic but both are minorities.
nameless
The Creator
It is the Hindus who first put forward the one god concept many thousands of years ago. People are of different kinds, so hinduism has a number of sects, people can chose any sect which they feel comfortable. Some people like worship shiva, other worship vishnu, kali etc, and that does not mean there are number of gods in hindusim, they are just different form of the same god. Even there is freedom to create a new god, the form does not matters, just need to have proper devotion. In islam the same god has 100 names but in polytheism in hinduism the same god has number of forms.
Even monotheism is not perfect according to hinduism, thus hinduism goes further to monism (adwaitha vedantha).
Islam is a path which comes under 'bhakti yoga' which is one among many paths put forward by Hinduism.
Even monotheism is not perfect according to hinduism, thus hinduism goes further to monism (adwaitha vedantha).
Islam is a path which comes under 'bhakti yoga' which is one among many paths put forward by Hinduism.
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ThereIsNoSpoon
Active Member
Well, then do it.you haven't ponderd all that much i can tell. lets compare any non muslim country to say saudi arabia or the UAE or only dubai itself. or lets compare the wealth of all the muslim majority countries to the non muslim countries.
Give me your numbers.
And while you do so please do consider that you should not base this on the assumption that the verse is valid for the country as a whole but actually meant for each and every believer!
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
um...have you heard of the verse that says "....we shall test you with your wealth...."?
Allah takes it away when he pleases and gives it back when he pleases. and some people always have it. Allah never takes it away just as some people never get much wealth so that both the rich and the poor may get tested.
arimoff
Active Member
If your religion tells you to give charity, it doesn't make it the right one. It is the deed that counts. The Saudi Arabia and Dubai you mentioned has plenty of money so why don't they help children of Palistine or Muslims in Africa? most of them are poor, why should they instead blame Christians to help them? why should America give 9 billion to Palestine and France take Muslim immigrants from Africa support them while they don't wont to work? why then should the Red Cross help people of Chechnya when those militants kidnap them for ransom? but yet people of Dubai built toilets out of gold for them selfs. where is the appreciation? To my understanding charity teaches appreciation.
You think people who are Christian don't do charity? or Jewish people don't do it neither? Torah tells us to give charity, 10% of our earnings. (10% after A Jewish man paid all his bills and all his family needs from what is left he gives 10% to charity). Who you think paid to have millions of Jewish people emigrate from former USSR? Jewish organizations who get their money from charity that people give.
As you see any religion can claim their path is right if all it takes is charity. You should go out of your desert send box and explore the world, it will really open your eyes.
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tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
What lies?
The people of Arabia - had at least 360 gods and goddesses. Among the gods of the polytheistic Arabs, Allah was one of the most important. In Mecca, Allah was the principal deity. He had three daughters: Al Lat (Crescent); Al Uzzah (Venus) and Al Manah(Fate) .
53:19 Have ye thought upon Al-Lat and Al-'Uzza
53:20 And Manat, the third, the other ?
Besides the Ka'ba of Mecca, caves, trees, waterholes, wells etc. were also venerated.
There were other 'holy' sites also called Ka'ba besides the one in Mecca, such as the ones in Petra, Sana' and Najran.
The pagan Ka'ba was a special but very simple cube-like building that housed a fallen black meteorite, which was venerated as a fetish. Because of its holiness, the area surrounding it was pronounced prohibited/sacred (Haram). Even before 'Islam', it was an object of annual pilgrimage and sacrifice.
In his revelation, Mohammad is told of the error of multi god/goddess worship.
53:21 Are yours the males and His the females ?
53:22 That indeed were an unfair division!
53:23 They are but names which ye have named, ye and your fathers, for which Allah hath revealed no warrant. They follow but a guess and that which (they) themselves desire. And now the guidance from their Lord hath come unto them.
Mohammad was indeed a part of a polytheistic society, and it clearly states in the above passages that he was a part of that worship until Allah reviled himself as the one true god.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
the ones you mentioned before and the ones below.
totally wrong. please go to the following thread so you may learn the truth. Brief Biography of Prophet Muhamed. as for the daughter thing, the pagan arabs used to consider males as superior to females, so they used to burry their daughters and keep their sons. they used to say the angels are females. so Allah says that if males are better than females, why would he keep the females to himself and not the males? read the verses and you will see the truth:
Surah 53. The Star
1. By the Star when it goes down,-
2. Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled.
3. Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.
4. It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:
5. He was taught by one Mighty in Power,
6. Endued with Wisdom: for he appeared (in stately form);
7. While he was in the highest part of the horizon:
8. Then he approached and came closer,
9. And was at a distance of but two bow-lengths or (even) nearer;
10. So did ((Allah)) convey the inspiration to His Servant- (conveyed) what He (meant) to convey.
11. The (Prophet's) (mind and) heart in no way falsified that which he saw.
12. Will ye then dispute with him concerning what he saw?
13. For indeed he saw him at a second descent,
14. Near the Lote-tree beyond which none may pass:
15. Near it is the Garden of Abode.
16. Behold, the Lote-tree was shrouded (in mystery unspeakable!)
17. (His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong!
18. For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest!
19. Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza,
20. And another, the third (goddess), Manat?
21. What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female?
22. Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!
23. These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!
24. Nay, shall man have (just) anything he hankers after?
25. But it is to Allah that the End and the Beginning (of all things) belong.
26. How many-so-ever be the angels in the heavens, their intercession will avail nothing except after Allah has given leave for whom He pleases and that he is acceptable to Him.
27. Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names. 28. But they have no knowledge therein. They follow nothing but conjecture; and conjecture avails nothing against Truth.
when Allah (swt) raised Muhamed (saws) to paradise he asks the pagans why didn't he see Al-Lat, Al-'Uzza and Manat if they are indeed not made up by the pagans. if it is true that Allah (swt) has daughters then surely he would have seen them. read the above verses they explain it.
wells were regarded holy and speacil but not the caves and trees.
the kabah was first built by Adam (as), the kabah is the first bulding on the surface of the earth and the first place of worship. it was latter rebuilt by Abraham (as) and his son Ishmael (as). they were both prophets of Allah (swt) and islam did not start with Muhamed (saws) but way before, even before Abraham (as) it started with Adam (as) the first human. after rebuilding the kabah Abraham (as) was told to make pilgramige to it yearly just like us muslims still do. and it was a place of monotheistic worship. but due to the passing of time and people from all over coming over during the pilgramage they braught idols along and eventually they lost the pure religion.
Muhamed (saws) never was an idol worshiper, how did you get that into the picture? and the verses you have quoted are about the angles being considered the daughters of Allah (swt), the ones mentioned before.
you are both right and wrong. he was a part of a polytheistic society, he lived among pagans and idol worshipers. but he never joined in any worship with them. he used to go to the cave of Hira and stay there alone asking for guidance.
and again the verses are directed at the pagan arabs who used to say false things about Allah (swt).
Muffled
Jesus in me
This is not the reality. If Islam was not in the custom of conquering people, it would only exist in Saudi Arabia.
This is the case but the notion of crusading against Muslims may well have grown out of having to defend Christian lands from invasion by Islamic leaders.
The Crusaders did have the notion that Israel was in the hands of an infidel. The whole idea was that it should be rescued from unbelievers. At that period of time they might have believed the same thing if it were held by Jews. That doesn't mean that they were actually following Christian beliefs in doing and believing so.
If men take an evil path, it is not proof that the religion is an evil path but only that they are on a different path. Christianity is not superior to Islam because it is on a different path but because it provides the ability to walk that path without wandering off it.
Muffled
Jesus in me
Is this an obvious necessity or just a human tendency? A true Christian should be able to see Jesus in everyone. So if a Christian saw a Jew in need of rescue from the Nazi monsters, he should see Jesus in need of a rescue and be willing to offer his life for him. It does appear that this is a rare person who actually achieves true Christianity but not because the religion is flawed but because people are flawed.
This may be true. As far as I can see Jesus taught how to get to Heaven and Judaism did not.
Jesus didn't teach us to love our neigbors in Heaven but here and certainly this is not merely a Christian concept. Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are on the same path and other relgions to some extent also.
This is not so foreign a concept. When Jews reject Jesus they reject God and who does that leave? Of course the path to God still exists within Judaism, so an opportunity is still available up to a point. So the question is whether a God who has been rejected feels the necessity to save people out of the Nazi furnaces or just leave the ingrates to the devil's devices.
Muffled
Jesus in me
This is a dilemma. I have always been of a mind to follow the God with the biggest stick. Since Jehovah is omnipotent he qualifies. It is a reality of life. The one who holds the power makes the rules. Or in slang terms the boss is always right unless you have a desire to get fired.
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
You have evidence that in his entire life he was never a part of the worship that he was raised in?
The bible, in my opinion contains a complete message of who, what and how God works with respect to humanity.
1.The bible gives us the story of beginnings, creation.
2. It gives us the reason for our intellect ability and why.
3. It gives us the consequences for that ability
4. It gives us the final end and the new beginnings.
It doesn't matter what religious belief one espouses, believer or non believer, the same four points above apply to every individual who was/is and ever be born in the flesh, no exceptions.
Those same four points are the key to understanding the reason for our existence, our fall, judgment and death.
All religious beliefs are covered under those same four points by one individual who within those four points saves all mankind.
If you, who ever you are in your beliefs, can not come to understand those four points, then you are tied to your beliefs and have no hope of reconciling our differences of beliefs.
But let's say you did understand those four points, this is what your attitude would be:
God, by whatever name He is called is honored by us with all our minds, heart and soul and love our neighbor as we love our selves, their religious beliefs matter only to the one who practices them, yet love is exercised.
That is the true path, the way and the life.
Blessings, AJ
1.The bible gives us the story of beginnings, creation.
2. It gives us the reason for our intellect ability and why.
3. It gives us the consequences for that ability
4. It gives us the final end and the new beginnings.
It doesn't matter what religious belief one espouses, believer or non believer, the same four points above apply to every individual who was/is and ever be born in the flesh, no exceptions.
Those same four points are the key to understanding the reason for our existence, our fall, judgment and death.
All religious beliefs are covered under those same four points by one individual who within those four points saves all mankind.
If you, who ever you are in your beliefs, can not come to understand those four points, then you are tied to your beliefs and have no hope of reconciling our differences of beliefs.
But let's say you did understand those four points, this is what your attitude would be:
God, by whatever name He is called is honored by us with all our minds, heart and soul and love our neighbor as we love our selves, their religious beliefs matter only to the one who practices them, yet love is exercised.
That is the true path, the way and the life.
Blessings, AJ
ThereIsNoSpoon
Active Member
Would you please stick to the argument that you had made before. You wanted to compare things. So do it and accept the result.
A religion which sees itself as an only path to salvation would be much more inclined to have this particular flaw than a religion that can see many paths to G-d other than it's own. As I Jew I see this tendency in both of the other Abramaic faiths, and can only pray for peace between all three, as it seems beyond man's power to repair the breach. There will come a time we work together for G-d's (not our own) purpose.
Yeshua was a Jew, who taught Judaism. So obviously including a focus on both Heaven and Earth. He did so at a crucial moment in history, a pivotal moment, as the Age was about to change. So he is, to me, symbolic of that change, not because he taught something not Jewish.
Yes, we are on the same path, or at least parallel paths destined to converge.
It's very foreign to Judaism, in which there never was a revolt in heaven, nor fall of angels. As to rejecting G-d that is not so, as we can reject claims that 'Jesus' was divine while at the same time hold true faith to the G-d of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.
Glad you feel this way, it's a start, up to a point.
What happened there to us was just the latest disaster of a long history of such, for two millennia. Rather than look for a reason this happened with only the Jews, perhaps you should widen your view??
That applies to the people of Messiah ben Yosef as well as to himself.
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