Which Will Win Out In The End: Creationism or Evolution?

[Super Universe]

Gorilla's speak fluent sign language? I can teach a dog to associate actions with words. Sit. Speak. Fetch, but the dog never understands any depth of meaning behind the words.

A gorilla can make a sign for a few types of bird that he has been taught, ask it to explain a bird and it signs: small-yellow-feathers. Then show the gorilla a bird unlike any he has ever seen, suddenly he can't make the distinction.

It can ask for an orange because it is hungry for one or give an associated response to a picture card but what else does it understand about the orange? Nothing.

This is language in a primitive sense. The gorilla can communicate specific words that it has been taught but it's unable to understand any deeper meaning of those words.

But is it sentience? Sentient means finely sensitive in feeling. It's being aware of many things not just self-aware. All animals know they are but they don't know what they are.

What if a rock happens to know it exists but it knows nothing else and can be taught nothing else? Do you think this qualifies for sentient intelligence?

 

[Real Sorceror]

http://www.koko.org/#
Here, educate yourself.

 

[Pah]

There will be no "winner" if creation wins.

 

[roli]

Since you like to throw big stones at others perhaps you can explain to me when Jesus said that we should believe in the book of Genesis? You'd think if it was really that important He would have at least brought it up once.

Jhn 3:13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.
Jhn 6:62 — [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
Jhn 6:38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Jhn 17:5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Jhn 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word The same was in the beginning with God.was God.
Jhn 1:14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jesus is the embodiment of the word in the beginning and for all eternity from Genisis to Revelation
Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

( In these verses there is a clear distinction between the Father and the Son and that He was in heaven before coming to earth,but without the Spirit of God to give you or any other a revelation of this word it will appear foolish and will most likely argued and refuted I'm sure)

You argue that this is necessary to be a Christian when the real reason is because you feel threatened by another Christian who does not believe in every insignificant religious view as you.

If they were my views I could not expect anyone to follow them,that is totally absurd and ludicrous, but when you say you believe in God yet refuse to accept His word as a hole,regardless if it was one verse,or one chapter, your belief appears conditional and therefore your belief which is trust and reliance on God must also come into question.
Not for me to be concerned about personally but so many profess to be Christian,yet have their own ideas and beliefs, that are contrary to scripture,yet maintain being a christian regardless.
To pick and choose what to believe or disbelieve in the scriptures is to me relativism
If you say your a Christian,then you believe it all because God is not the author of confusion.
If I was threatened by anyone for what they believe or disbelieve especially in opposition to what I believe,then my own faith and belief is based on man and therefore empty and futile ,but on the contrary the relationship with Christ that I have is based only on one thing,the sacrifice made on my behalf.
The mercy and grace that was displayed on the cross and the blood that was shed for me and my sins.

I think your old time religious ideas are far outdated. The universe was not created in seven days and men do not have one less rib than females.

This is your intellectual perspective using logic and reason and I understand why you speak the way you do. The bible says, the natural man (without the Holy Spirit)receives not the things of God neither can he know the things of God for they are spiritually discerned,therefore they will be continually refuted and denied by the logic of man.
So I am not offended,but hope your eyes open to the truth of who Jesus truly is.

If God truly wanted an "Adam and Eve" relationship He could have it in a snap but the universe is not for the earth and human beings, the earth and human beings are for the universe.

Tell that to your spouse someday,snap your fingers and tell them, I want you to be this or that,do this or that,that would not be wise and definitly not be love and freedom to choose ,but when you allow someone the power to chose to love and serve then it is called a relationship not dictatorship.

 

[Super Universe]

http://www.koko.org/#
Here, educate yourself.

Educate? Hehe, I got my whole post from that website. Koko can associate 1,000 words, that doesn't mean he understands anything more than an extremely basic meaning of those words.

He simply can recognize a picture.

This is intelligence but not at a sentient level. If there is a level between rocks and humans (it's called animal) then this is where your great Koko is.

 

[roli]

There will be no "winner" if creation wins.

On the contrary my friend, in the end of this race we call life there is prize,for the Christian it is those with faith in Christ that will receive the imperisable crown and therefore be the winner ,1Cr 9: 24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air.

 

[Super Universe]

Jhn 3:13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.
Jhn 6:62 — [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
Jhn 6:38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Jhn 17:5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Jhn 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word The same was in the beginning with God.was God.
Jhn 1:14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jesus is the embodiment of the word in the beginning and for all eternity from Genisis to Revelation
Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

( In these verses there is a clear distinction between the Father and the Son and that He was in heaven before coming to earth,but without the Spirit of God to give you or any other a revelation of this word it will appear foolish and will most likely argued and refuted I'm sure)


If they were my views I could not expect anyone to follow them,that is totally absurd and ludicrous, but when you say you believe in God yet refuse to accept His word as a hole,regardless if it was one verse,or one chapter, your belief appears conditional and therefore your belief which is trust and reliance on God must also come into question.
Not for me to be concerned about personally but so many profess to be Christian,yet have their own ideas and beliefs, that are contrary to scripture,yet maintain being a christian regardless.
To pick and choose what to believe or disbelieve in the scriptures is to me relativism
If you say your a Christian,then you believe it all because God is not the author of confusion.
If I was threatened by anyone for what they believe or disbelieve especially in opposition to what I believe,then my own faith and belief is based on man and therefore empty and futile ,but on the contrary the relationship with Christ that I have is based only on one thing,the sacrifice made on my behalf.
The mercy and grace that was displayed on the cross and the blood that was shed for me and my sins.



This is your intellectual perspective using logic and reason and I understand why you speak the way you do. The bible says, the natural man (without the Holy Spirit)receives not the things of God neither can he know the things of God for they are spiritually discerned,therefore they will be continually refuted and denied by the logic of man.
So I am not offended,but hope your eyes open to the truth of who Jesus truly is.


Tell that to your spouse someday,snap your fingers and tell them, I want you to be this or that,do this or that,that would not be wise and definitly not be love and freedom to choose ,but when you allow someone the power to chose to love and serve then it is called a relationship not dictatorship.

Your reply is full of biblical support that Jesus is the Son of God, from heaven to do the will of God, the Father, Jesus is God in the beginning, and on and on and on... but this has nothing to do with the question that I asked, which you copied in your response. So, lets try again.

When did Jesus proclaim that we must believe the biblical account of Genesis to be considered His follower?

Now you claim that the bible is God's word as a whole. So I am to believe that God created the universe in seven days? I am to believe a serpent talked? That Adam and Eve had son's and daughters who committed incest? That Cain was afraid of being killed by whom? That we are to pay God a ransom on the sabbath? That we are to stone adulterers?

Do you actually perform animal sacrifice? If you do not then aren't you picking and choosing what to follow? Do you follow the rules concerning mold? Do you eat pork?

Why do you choose to believe that God creates a hell for us, destroys cities, and kills? To believe this, my friend, is the greatest blasphemy possible but is your God given choice to believe and live with for only you must answer for it. I hope you've been thinking of a good one because I have a feeling that "Uh, but it's in the bible that you..." just isn't going to cut it. He gave you free will and you made your choice what to believe.


A true Christian is one who follows Christ's teachings, one who truly understands His ideas of forgiveness. It has nothing to do with completely submerging for baptism or wearing a suit and tie to Sunday meetings.

 

[lamplighter]

I think a mix of the two would come from the thought of "Where did all the matter that existed before the big bang come from?".

Also Pepsi will own all when Mountain Dew is declared to be more important than water.

 

[fantome profane]

A scientist might view longevity as a determining factor in the success of a species but I certainly don't.

What dinosaur created a symphony?
What dinosaur looked at the moon and then went there?
What dinosaur conducted an experiment?
What animal created beauty and called it art?

Very good point. But that just goes to show that success is a subjective concept.

 

[Valjean]

The Hitchhiker's Guide will no doubt list humanity as a "...very successful species that destroyed its own nest and dissapeared almost as soon as it appeared."

 

[Real Sorceror]

Educate? Hehe, I got my whole post from that website. Koko can associate 1,000 words, that doesn't mean he understands anything more than an extremely basic meaning of those words.

He simply can recognize a picture.

This is intelligence but not at a sentient level. If there is a level between rocks and humans (it's called animal) then this is where your great Koko is.

Fine. It seems your standards for sentient are unnecassarily high. If that makes you feel unique or special than go for it.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Let the congregation say "Amen".

I suspect the situation will remain much as it is now. There will be some atheistic evolutionist who deny any possibility of a creator, some fundamentalist creationists who deny any possibility of evolution and the vast majority somewhere in between, whether that be because they accept evolution but are agnostic to the idea of a creator or whether it be that they are believers in God who see no conflict between evolution and the existence of a creator. I'd fall in the latter camp.

James

 

[logician]

"If they had been given time and opportunity, I'm almost certian sentient reptiles would have evolved"

They had 150 million years and didn't do it, sorry, your theory doesn't stand up.

 

[Real Sorceror]

"If they had been given time and opportunity, I'm almost certian sentient reptiles would have evolved"

They had 150 million years and didn't do it, sorry, your theory doesn't stand up.

Perhaps the opportunity never came up.

 

[Valjean]

Extreme intelligence/language/ mirror neuron proliferation apparently is not selectively advantageous. The one species that developed it lasted less than 100,000 years.

 

[Sunstone]

Extreme intelligence/language/ mirror neuron proliferation apparently is not selectively advantageous. The one species that developed it lasted less than 100,000 years.

Just a quibble, but don't you mean less that 200,000 years? At any rate, compare the likely length of human tenure on this planet with the average of 2.5 million years duration for a warm blooded species and 25 million years duration for a cold blooded species.

 

[Valjean]

I was thinking more of modern humans, H sapiens, sapiens than habilis, neanderthalensis &c. I may have got a bit ahead of myself in assuming our extinction, but this is a likely, predictable outcome given our current activities.

We really didn't emerge from endangered species status till the close of the last ice age. Shortly after that we discovered agriculture, animal husbandry, &c, and it was off to the races...

 

[akshar]

Creationism

 

[PolyHedral]

Evolution, as it is logical and backed up agaisnt a brick wall.

 

[Random]

Extreme intelligence/language/ mirror neuron proliferation apparently is not selectively advantageous. The one species that developed it lasted less than 100,000 years.

You can't say that and then not tell Godlike what this wonderful species was! Tell me all about this species that lasted, um, however many hundred thousand years. Please.