White is a racist term!

[bobhikes]

Honestly Bob, do have any idea how absurd you sound?

Actually yes I do, because its something that has been ingrained in your thinking and the thinking of everyone from birth.

An African American declaring himself a proud black man is just as racist as a white man doing it. Just because its acceptable doesn't make it right.

All I ask is for a non-biased definition that can describe all white or black men. I can give a non-biased definition of a male, female, dog etc but I can not for a white or black male. I will even give you hispanic male because it has a valid description a male born in a country that spanish is the native language of course not spain. The spanish are european.

 

[Draka]

Actually yes I do, because its something that has been ingrained in your thinking and the thinking of everyone from birth.

So, your prejudices and stereotypes which you have in your mind are not your issue, they are the issues of everyone else? Nice passing the buck attempt. I'm not buying it.

An African American declaring himself a proud black man is just as racist as a white man doing it. Just because its acceptable doesn't make it right.

You are only further proving that you have no idea what you are talking about as you have no idea what racism really is. Let me help you out a little.

rac·ism

   [rey-siz-uh

m] Show IPA
–noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

So now, let's see, since you are the one attaching negative connotations to being white, it is you who are showing racist tendencies. Not everyone else for using the term white, which you personally have negative connotations about. This IS your issue.

All I ask is for a non-biased definition that can describe all white or black men. I can give a non-biased definition of a male, female, dog etc but I can not for a white or black male.

That, again, is your issue. You are the one attaching certain ideas and false stereotypes (biases) to these terms. To anybody who is not racist, they just refer to a skin tone and that's it.

I will even give you hispanic male because it has a valid description a male born in a country that spanish is the native language of course not spain. The spanish are european.

Wait, so if a Hispanic couple from Mexico come to the US and have a son here...that son is not Hispanic because he will have been born in a predominately English speaking country? Is that what you are trying to say?

 

[bobhikes]

So, your prejudices and stereotypes which you have in your mind are not your issue, they are the issues of everyone else? Nice passing the buck attempt. I'm not buying it.

You are only further proving that you have no idea what you are talking about as you have no idea what racism really is. Let me help you out a little.

So now, let's see, since you are the one attaching negative connotations to being white, it is you who are showing racist tendencies. Not everyone else for using the term white, which you personally have negative connotations about. This IS your issue.

That, again, is your issue. You are the one attaching certain ideas and false stereotypes (biases) to these terms. To anybody who is not racist, they just refer to a skin tone and that's it.

Wait, so if a Hispanic couple from Mexico come to the US and have a son here...that son is not Hispanic because he will have been born in a predominately English speaking country? Is that what you are trying to say?

I can agree with your definition. If you say I am a proud White or Black or hispanic. It fits your definition of racism very well. It is indicating the you believe you are different by skin color, or birth place from other humans and that you are proud(superior) of it.

As to negative connotations that some feeI have. My descriptions were specifically designed to draw debate. I believe that White and Black are inaccurate descriptions of any person alive not negative. The negativity is associating with a specific group that can't be defined.

I ask again for a definition for White or Black that is not biased.

I was hoping you would take me up on it and I would proved you wrong but the Hispanic thing is exactly my point. I have 2 Son's both are half hispanic. My oldest definately shows his hispanic side, my youngest takes after my european ancestry. My wife in stores is ocassionaly asked who she is babysitting for.

Are Both my son's white, hispanic or is the oldest hispanic and the yougest white. You know neither at the party do you ask my youngest about the hispanic boy or ask my oldest about the white youth.


Yes, White and Black are racist terms.

 

[Draka]

There IS no bias in white or black outside of what you believe there to be. They are terms for skin tones. Descriptors to describe what a person looks like and/or their ethnicity. That's it. There are no bad things about being black or white. Only bad things about particular people. that you feel differently, again, only proves your own racism, not everyone else's.

 

[bobhikes]

There IS no bias in white or black outside of what you believe there to be. They are terms for skin tones. Descriptors to describe what a person looks like and/or their ethnicity. That's it. There are no bad things about being black or white. Only bad things about particular people. that you feel differently, again, only proves your own racism, not everyone else's.

There is no Black or White skin tone only the one in your mind. You are creating a human that does not exist, another race how can that not be racism.

 

[Acim]

I ask again for a definition for White or Black that is not biased.

I don't think you'll find one.

Saying we are all human tends to work, I think.

But looking for 'accurate' ways to make note of perceived differences, especially related to skin color, I think cannot be found. At least if that is to fit all circumstances, ever.

Being able to adapt to acceptable norms within a group or sub-culture is best we can hope for. And as long as you are willing to see everyone in the room as 'equally human' until you learn the local accepted terms, the bias thing ought to be at a minimum.

 

[bobhikes]

I don't think you'll find one.

Saying we are all human tends to work, I think.

But looking for 'accurate' ways to make note of perceived differences, especially related to skin color, I think cannot be found. At least if that is to fit all circumstances, ever.

Being able to adapt to acceptable norms within a group or sub-culture is best we can hope for. And as long as you are willing to see everyone in the room as 'equally human' until you learn the local accepted terms, the bias thing ought to be at a minimum.

A non-bias acceptable term would be the guy with the darker or lighter skin and if there are 3 guys the guy with the lighest skin or darkest skin. You are then indicating that they are both guy's that happen to have different skin color's. You are not grouping them in a bias cateorgory.

Keeping the acceptable norms keeps the acceptable prejudice's.

I do prefer the Guy in the blue shirt drinking the scotch though.

 

[Acim]

Keeping the acceptable norms keeps the acceptable prejudice's.

Correct. Until we learn to see through skin color, and/or beyond it, to reality of 'we are all human,' then accepted norms being adapted to, makes most sense (to me).

Seriously, you don't need to say anything at all when differences your mind finds. Silence can be / is golden.

(ooops, golden is a color too. Dag nabbit!)

 

[bobhikes]

Correct. Until we learn to see through skin color, and/or beyond it, to reality of 'we are all human,' then accepted norms being adapted to, makes most sense (to me).

Seriously, you don't need to say anything at all when differences your mind finds. Silence can be / is golden.

(ooops, golden is a color too. Dag nabbit!)

Yeah, but you won't ever be able to see through skin color unless you try to make changes.

 

[Draka]

This is ridiculous. Coming from a person who admitted that "white", when used in reference to people, elicits images of slave owners and trailer park "trash" to even remotely suggest that others are racist for using the term HE has issues with. Absolutely ridiculous and too inane to warrant further comment.

Have fun with your racist self Bob.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Yes, white is a racist term, if you have a problem with people you describe as white.

What's the question?

 

[Vendetta]

I see nobody cared to answer #9

 

[Onkara]

I see nobody cared to answer #9

Oh I care!
The thing is #9 is right, any discrimination is still discrimination. We can go on removing discrimination ad absurdum until we daren't open our mouths in case by calling a cat a cat means we have insulted dogs.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

#9 is absurd. It makes just as much sense as the OP's main thrust. White or black or any other color are not racist terms.

 

[McBell]

When you use the word white to describe yourself or a person aren't you being racist?

When I think white person I think of 2 things A Colonel Sanders like Gentleman sitting on the front porch in a rocking chair with his shotgun in his lap. While his slaves tend to his plantation.

I also think of white person as white trash. You know the mobile home person whose drinking beers from his lounge chair and eating road kill.

I do not want to be grouped with either of these people. Is there a good description of a white person? A reason to be proud to be called a white person. Have you ever been called a white person other than in a sarcastic way? Do you ever say the white person over there?

Is caucasion any better? What is a caucasian? What are the ethnicities that make up caucasians?


If you are in a group of all white people(for example) you can't say the white person over there. How do you identify a person in that group to your friend. Why would you not identify a person of different color in the group the same way. Is it because we are just lazy? Is it right?

Using this logic, any word that someone has a hang up over is a racist term, right?
God forbid someone were to point out the blonde by using the word blonde, right?
What about the red head?

I must be one hugely racist bass turd...

 

[McBell]

Oh I care!
The thing is #9 is right, any discrimination is still discrimination. We can go on removing discrimination ad absurdum until we daren't open our mouths in case by calling a cat a cat means we have insulted dogs.

Like being told that you cannot call a criminal a criminal or a liar a liar because you just might hurt their feelings...

 

[HonestJoe]

Groupings themselves are prejudice.

Probably, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing, it is instinctive rather than deliberate and is unavoidable.

You can tell me it's wrong and that I shouldn't do it all you want but I'm still going to identify people on the basis of their skin colour (among thousands of other features) because I have eyes and a brain constructed to uniquely identify individuals. None of this is automatically racist. Racism is active discrimination on the grounds of (perceived) race, actually treating people differently. I'm still treating all people the same - the single black guy in the crowd of white people gets identified as "the black guy" and a single white guy in a crowd of black people gets identified as "the white guy" (as with tall guys, short guys, blond guys, funny guys etc).

Now, you can very easily get discrimination feeding on from this instinctive grouping. Once you're differentiating groups it's easy for bad actions of individuals to be attributed to those groups. That's were the racism comes in. To be honest, I think an element of that is inevitable too (as per your tattoo example). We all have an instinct to favour "our own" and fear anything (or anyone) different. Our intelligence can only overrule these instincts so far.

The bottom line is that simply accepting (symbolic) skin colour as one of the many ways we identify and group people doesn't need to be discriminatory or a problem. "White" isn't fundamentally a racist term.

 

[Kathryn]

Personally, I don't much care for the terms "white," "black," or "little yellow devils."

Actually, that last one was sort of a joke - meant to point out that these labels based on skin tone are not very accurate. As has been pointed out - no one is really "white" or "black." And I rarely hear anyone described as "brown" or "yellow" or "red" anymore, though this was a practice in our collective, more openly racist, past.

The terms are so limiting. For instance, take our illustrious President, Barack Obama. He is labeled as "black" on a regular basis. I find this to smack of Jim Crow days and slavery labels. The man is half "black" and half "white" if you really want to insist on using those labels. But - this sounds like the old adage, "One drop of black blood makes you black!" What on earth? If we can call him "black" we could just as easily call him "white." I mean, both are accurate - or rather, both are equally inaccurate.

I have four biracial children. As genetics will often produce, each of them sports a different skin tone, as do my multiracial grandkids. As a group (seven, to be exact), my grandkids range from looking 100 percent Hispanic, to looking Arabic, to having blonde hair and blue eyes and looking like a tanned California prototype! But...are they "black," "white," or "brown?"

When my kids were growing up, we used to get a kick out of filling out their school paperwork, which always insisted that we pick ONE race to categorize them. I always left this portion blank, and on more than one occassion was called on the carpet for that by school personnel, who would INSIST that I complete that section - which clearly stated "Pick ONE race." I always refused and told them, "So - what are you going to do - refuse to let my kids into the school Monday?" It was ridiculous.

We live in a racially diverse society - get used to it.

I don't have a good answer to these labels of "white," "black," or whatever, because I find "African American," "Chinese American," etc. to be cumbersome as well. Usually what I do is simply try to categorize them in some other way, if the need arises - like, for instance, "You know, the girl in HR with the dredlocks," or "That guy in accounting who always wears those goofy shoes."

 

[bobhikes]

Using this logic, any word that someone has a hang up over is a racist term, right?
God forbid someone were to point out the blonde by using the word blonde, right?
What about the red head?

I must be one hugely racist bass turd...

Not at all, White and Black as I pointed out through the thread have no valid definition. You created an image in your head of what you accept to be White or Black. This image is of a human that does not exist or a human of another race ie racism.

Blonde, Green eyes, Cats, Dogs, all have valid definitions that exist when you say dog all I need to do is go to a dictionary or encyclopedia and look it up.

Look up Black\White person in the dictionary or encyclopedia if you get a definition it will be vague and incomplete.

As I said I have 2 boys. My wife is from El-Salvador Central America I am of European decent. My oldest Boy takes after my wife and my youngest takes after me in looks. They are so different people have asked my wife who she is babysitting for.

Are they still both white, or something else or should each be labeled differently.

If you can provide a valid definition of a Blackman or Whiteman then I am wrong. Otherwise say what you want, I am right.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Actually, that last one was sort of a joke - meant to point out that these labels based on skin tone are not very accurate. As has been pointed out - no one is really "white" or "black." And I rarely hear anyone described as "brown" or "yellow" or "red" anymore, though this was a practice in our collective, more openly racist, past.

Really?

Around here, at least with people my age, "brown" is a generally accepted term for someone of south Asian descent (e.g. India, Sri Lanka) or from certain Caribbean countries (e.g. Guyana, Trinidad... for people who aren't "black" but are still dark-skinned). I know plenty of people who use the term to describe themselves... and not in the way that people use the "n-word" to describe themselves as a way to "take the word back" or the like; it's just a generally accepted term.