White Pride and White Nationalism

[Kirran]

Was it my sharp wit? Charm and good looks?

We're meant to have charm, good looks and a sharp wit? Why did nobody notify me?

 

[Laika]

You would be disappointed and surprised.

I realise we have a few. I'm just avoiding the issue.

Why would opposition to multiculturalism be driven by some belief they are "unnatural and contrary to the laws of racial hygiene", and from all these racial theories?

Is it so hard to think there is a belief that you want your culture, completely unrelated to race, to remain unchanged and be the sole culture of the land? Why must we connect it to race?

Basically, If race= culture, multiculturalism=multi-racial society= racial mixing. Racial mixing is considered bad so multiculturalism is bad.

I believe the connection is to do with genetics and sociobiology but I don't know more than that.

 

[Kirran]

I realise we have a few. I'm just avoiding the issue.



Basically, If race= culture, multiculturalism=multi-racial society= racial mixing. Racial mixing is considered bad so multiculturalism is bad.

I believe the connection is to do with genetics and sociobiology but I don't know more than that.

Does race=culture?

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Basically, If race= culture, multiculturalism=multi-racial society= racial mixing. Racial mixing is considered bad so multiculturalism is bad.

I believe the connection is to do with genetics and sociobiology but I don't know more than that.

Ah okay, well I disagree that race=culture.

 

[Laika]

Does race=culture?

Ah okay, well I disagree that race=culture.

My point is that to a white nationalist it would. I don't understand exactly how they got there honestly.

 

[Quetzal]

My point is that to a white nationalist it would. I don't understand exactly how they got there honestly.

Me either.

 

[निताइ dasa]

Race (by which I mean physical appearance) can certainly correlate with culture. In the past, human populations would usually live in isolation and be very similiar physically . The fact that they lived in isolation for long periods of times in different environments meant that a distinct cultures would form. Certainly not a causal relationship nor universal I think, especially now that people can adopt cultures not of their birth and also they can marry whomever they want. But apart from that meh, race is nothing but a few genes. Actually if you compare human populations in terms of their whole physique (not just skin color) you'll find that that race categorization breaks apart.

 

[Nietzsche]

Taking pride in one's skin colour is something I've always found absurd.

I understand black people coming together to celebrate their history and the things their ancestors went through. At the same time, I also feel that such things divide us rather than bring us together. I don't want black people forming a clique, and brown people forming another, and white people another, and then staying away from each other. (You're also from England, right? This does happen in London, and other areas where people stick to a friendship group of the same race, and a community of the same race or similar race). I want a colour-blind society, one united by one culture in which everyone can take pride in and value. This race stuff is such nonsense, it's just some melanin in the skin or a little different mix of genetics, I don't get it, though I can understand people looking fondly at their ancestry. For example, a first generation immigrant can understandably take pride in their country of origin, they're very closely linked.

I don't think I've ever agreed with you more. I feel dirty.

 

[columbus]

My point is that to a white nationalist it would. I don't understand exactly how they got there honestly.

Because their wish to join the Culture of Victimhood is stronger than their education and reasoning skills.
Tom

 

[Kirran]

My point is that to a white nationalist it would. I don't understand exactly how they got there honestly.

So what are your views on multiculturalism?

Sometimes it's hard to tell if you're describing a certain ideology's view or saying your own opinion!

Race can certainly correlate with culture. In the past, human populations would usually live in isolation and be very similiar physically (hence race). The fact that they lived in isolation for long periods of times in different environments meant that a distinct cultures would form. Certainly not a causal relationship nor universal I think, especially now that people can adopt cultures not of their birth and also they can marry whomever they want. But apart from that meh, race is nothing but a few genes. Actually if you compare human populations in terms of their whole physique (not such skin color) you'll find that that race categorization breaks apart.

It's a social construct really, there isn't a biological basis to it. There's only a bunch of intersecting clines which result in correlations between X region and Y genetic traits.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I really don't have anything to except for a couple things:

Whatever one's skin color, people would be better served by taking pride in things that actually matter, like your health, appearance, conduct, accomplishments, family, and friends. Taking "pride" in categorical accidents of birth invariably leads to separation from "others" and a sense of self-superiority.

This needs emphasized more.

Also, what is the justification for gay pride?

The "justification" is the LBGT community isn't just shutting up and staying in the closet, but rather standing up for themselves in the face of what can be very heavy opposition (the Stonewall rioters, for example, were pretty much breaking the law just by existing).

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

I don't think I've ever agreed with you more. I feel dirty.

It's all a slippery slope from here. Before you know it you'll be shouting "Hallelujah praise the Lord!" and rooting for Trump 2020.

 

[Quetzal]

It's all a slippery slope from here. Before you know it you'll be shouting "Hallelujah praise the Lord!" and rooting for Trump 2020.

Never. I have a legal agreement that allows Ms. Q to waylay into me with a baseball bat should that ever occur.

 

[metis]

People used to take great pride in downgrading others. Black people were so good at it they made a game out of it, called dozens.
doz·en
ˈdəzən/
noun
plural noun: dozens

1. 2.
   an exchange of insults engaged in as a game or ritual among black Americans.

This is the second time this morning whereas you have responded in a way that had nothing to do with what was being said by myself, plus you misrepresented what I actually had said, and then you couldn't even bring yourself to apologize for doing so. Therefore, I no longer have any interest in exchanging posts with you.

 

[Laika]

So what are your views on multiculturalism?

Sometimes it's hard to tell if you're describing a certain ideology's view or saying your own opinion!



It's a social construct really, there isn't a biological basis to it. There's only a bunch of intersecting clines which result in correlations between X region and Y genetic traits.

I'm evolving on that one.

The art of being a collectivist is in not having strong opinions. It would be individualistic to value ones opinion too highly.

 

[George-ananda]

This is an argument I see used a lot. The argument for white pride and nationalism. I read and hear it often: "why can't I be proud of my culture?" You can. You have always been able to do so. We have Irish pride celebrations, German drinking festivals and Serbian food festivals. Any European culture you can think of has organizations in North America dedicated to taking pride in their heritage. No one will give them (or you) grief.

However, when you begin to talk about "white pride", we begin to run into some issues. That's not a culture. That's a skin color. There is no white culture, never was. There is no pan-European culture, never was. Europe is a continent, not a culture or ethnicity.

Now, some of you are thinking: "But wait! Black pride! How is that okay?" Go find a black person and ask them if their ancestors were slaves. When you find one who says "yes", proceed to ask them "what country in Africa were your ancestors from?" Do you know what their answer will be? "I don't know." This is because their culture was taken from them. It was beaten out of them. They were enslaved, Christianized, and then white washed. The one unifying feature they have as a people is that history of slavery and that history of being black. They can't have Liberian pride, or Congolese pride, or "insert African country" pride. They have no idea where their ancestors came from other than the broad region of West Africa.

Meanwhile us white people can often trace our ancestors to specific cities and regions. I can trace my mother's maiden name to a single hamlet in England. I know where I came from. I don't have white culture, I have English/German culture. Most black communities do not have that luxury.

The OP makes some good points. But maybe to be more correct, the term 'Afro-American Pride' (for descendants of the trans-Atlantic slave trade) should replace the term 'Black Pride'. As you said about whites, white is just a skin color. People with dark skin have many, many cultures too. Obama in my thinking for example, is not part of this 'Afro-American' cultural history. Pan-Black identification seems far more accepted than Pan-White thinking in liberal circles.

 

[1137]

I'm no historian, but wouldn't slave owner want to keep their slaves non white? That was the entire point, such separation is what allows for slavery. "Those blacks with their foreign rituals and heathen beliefs, they're less than us god fearing Christians."

 

[Kirran]

I'm no historian, but wouldn't slave owner want to keep their slaves non white? That was the entire point, such separation is what allows for slavery. "Those blacks with their foreign rituals and heathen beliefs, they're less than us god fearing Christians."

Slavery in North America started out including white people. The separation on racial grounds was a later development.

 

[suncowiam]

This is an argument I see used a lot. The argument for white pride and nationalism. I read and hear it often: "why can't I be proud of my culture?" You can. You have always been able to do so. We have Irish pride celebrations, German drinking festivals and Serbian food festivals. Any European culture you can think of has organizations in North America dedicated to taking pride in their heritage. No one will give them (or you) grief.

However, when you begin to talk about "white pride", we begin to run into some issues. That's not a culture. That's a skin color. There is no white culture, never was. There is no pan-European culture, never was. Europe is a continent, not a culture or ethnicity.

Now, some of you are thinking: "But wait! Black pride! How is that okay?" Go find a black person and ask them if their ancestors were slaves. When you find one who says "yes", proceed to ask them "what country in Africa were your ancestors from?" Do you know what their answer will be? "I don't know." This is because their culture was taken from them. It was beaten out of them. They were enslaved, Christianized, and then white washed. The one unifying feature they have as a people is that history of slavery and that history of being black. They can't have Liberian pride, or Congolese pride, or "insert African country" pride. They have no idea where their ancestors came from other than the broad region of West Africa.

Meanwhile us white people can often trace our ancestors to specific cities and regions. I can trace my mother's maiden name to a single hamlet in England. I know where I came from. I don't have white culture, I have English/German culture. Most black communities do not have that luxury.

Who cares if white people want to be proud of being white. It's the same as being proud of a culture or what ever else they want to be proud of.

There's no inherent evil or danger to society for being proud of a skin color. Being proud of something has little meaning as long as it stops there. People can and should differentiate between being proud and hatred towards others. Just because one is proud, doesn't mean they hate others outside their kind.

I'm not White either, I just hate double standards whatever the case may be. Yeah, it's wrong what happened to slaves, but not every black people falls into this bucket. Let's just make this simple and not jump to conclusions about what a race or color signifies.

 

[Acim]

However, when you begin to talk about "white pride", we begin to run into some issues. That's not a culture. That's a skin color. There is no white culture, never was. There is no pan-European culture, never was. Europe is a continent, not a culture or ethnicity.

So, why not take pride in skin color? Or if you do, what is wrong with that?

IMO, it becomes wrong if it is explicitly (also) stating superiority. If it is not, then I don't see what the problem is, other than historical issues and inferences by others, from hearing anyone that claims 'white pride.' But I see the inferences being made as squarely on the person making them, not the person expressing white pride.