Doesn't Big Government = prosperity and security? Aren't regulations designed to protect people?
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Who Are the Hardcore Trump Supporters?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
Whatever Hillary would've done in office, she would receive some criticism.
The question is whether criticizing her & her voters in such an abusive
fashion would be acceptable to those who take that tack regarding Trump.
There are unintended consequences to any design.
As I use "big government", it's shorthand for more bureaucracy, higher taxes,
& more regulation. The problem with the last item is that "more" imposes a
costly burden, but so often the benefits are less than the costs. When I'm
dictator, you'll see more regulation in some areas (eg, environmental, infrastructure
hardening), but with an overall reduction....at least until my assassination.
Fair point. We need to take my posts with a large grain of salt. I am surrounded by folks who have no issue proclaiming their racism as these current events occur. I am jaded. I am mad. I am #triggered. I want justice, for sure, but I don't want what we have now.
A bit more direct to your post. I do not fault Trump voters, at all. I get it, I do. I do fault current supporters of his more recent policies though if they agree with how they are being carried out.
Do you realize that what the office holders actually do is supposed to have a role in the degree of the criticisms they receive? And in the support they receive or fail to, as well?
I realize many things, one of which is that your post doesn't address the point.
Quetzal already did though.
Duke Leto's statement referred to a post that has now been deleted. He was calling into question that post.
If you say so.
No "if" about it.
I just did.
How'd I do?
Just fine....a little reluctantly, but just fine.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Thanks and I'll delete my last post.
tytlyf
Not Religious
It's true. Same crowd, same RW media watchers, same outfits, same misspelled signs.
RW entertainment is responsible for shaping the Tea/Trump supporter. Without RW entertainment outlets, they wouldn't exist. Where else do they learn all the falsehoods, panic mongering, paranoia, conspiracies, etc?
For instance, the Koch created Tea Party was about Taxed Enough Already. The republican elitists were angry that their 1%r taxes were too high, not the middle class.
As if we need more proof, look at the recent republican tax cut. Who benefits? The top, not the middle class. Derped.
Kartari
Active Member
Hi Sunstone,
I would say he certainly gave lip service to that notion. I agree in that a very significant number of his supporters perceived that he both could and would help them out financially.
There's a lot of truth in your view. Sadly, too many people are primarily motivated by money in life.
There is, in fact, a growing body of research that evinces the conclusion that Western democracies, particularly the United States, are losing interest in democratic forms of governance while authoritarian forms of leadership are gaining attraction, and at an alarming rate since the aftermath of World War 2 (and particularly over the past few decades). The Journal of Democracy published an article on one alarming survey conducted by the World Values Survey back in 2016 entitled, "The Danger of Deconsolidation: the Democratic Disconnect" (source).
Indeed, they not only fail to notice themselves, but fail to notice it even when it's rationally or logically pointed out to them.
Thanks for the link. I look forward to reading it when I'm in more of a mood to be depressed, lol.
Unfortunately, I think you're right. Authoritarian mindsets do certainly form a significant part of Trump's base of support. Just consider the white supremacist and white nationalist groups which have allied and been emboldened by the president's words and actions, including the KKK and the American Nazi party. I'd go so far as to state that there's a cult of personality around Trump. And Fox News has become the leading part of his personal propaganda network.
Other segments of his base of support include those who choose to remain superficially (mis)informed while not knowingly disavowing democracy as a fundamental institution. In my personal experience (having dealt with two family members in particular who fit into this category), it's nonetheless very difficult to get them to recognize the man they voted for and what he's doing. They are so inundated with misinformation, they probably would require a long term stay at an intensive un-indoctrination camp to unravel the thick layers of falsehoods that they regard as reality.
All in all, the realization that a growing body of Americans would rather have a tough-talking leader with little regard for either an elected legislature or an independent judiciary is not just a disturbing source of depression for me, but makes me fear for the future of this country as a democratic nation. I used to believe in meeting people halfway and having mutual respect for each others' views. How do you change the minds of people whose minds refuse to change with facts and logic, though? How do you even bring yourself to feign any amount of respect for someone who is unphased by, for instance, the ripping of toddlers away from their parents and caging them, without hope of parental reunification, just because they were fleeing a dangerous home country and trying to seek asylum here? Or who has no moral qualms whatsoever with throwing the First Amendment out the window in order to ban people from six countries where zero terrorists have attacked us from, simply because their personal ignorance about their religion links them with terrorism only in their own ignorant minds? These mindsets essentially boil down to bigotry, quite simply. Uninformed, ignorant, with unwarranted confidence in the overly simplistic yet wrong solutions to half-imagined problems that the authoritarian leader pulls from out of his rump and throws at them. Even in the better case of those who are simply misinformed, how do we get them to pay more attention and think critically about the propaganda they have become so thoroughly indoctrinated with?
It's honestly very difficult to maintain any semblance of optimism for the future at this point in time. But hope does remain, if for no other reason than the fact that there were nearly 3 million more people who voted for Clinton than for Trump in 2016, and Clinton was a poor candidate too. I just hope we can find someone better in 2020, if Trump manages to evade impeachment that is.
I would say he certainly gave lip service to that notion. I agree in that a very significant number of his supporters perceived that he both could and would help them out financially.
There's a lot of truth in your view. Sadly, too many people are primarily motivated by money in life.
There is, in fact, a growing body of research that evinces the conclusion that Western democracies, particularly the United States, are losing interest in democratic forms of governance while authoritarian forms of leadership are gaining attraction, and at an alarming rate since the aftermath of World War 2 (and particularly over the past few decades). The Journal of Democracy published an article on one alarming survey conducted by the World Values Survey back in 2016 entitled, "The Danger of Deconsolidation: the Democratic Disconnect" (source).
Indeed, they not only fail to notice themselves, but fail to notice it even when it's rationally or logically pointed out to them.
Thanks for the link. I look forward to reading it when I'm in more of a mood to be depressed, lol.
Unfortunately, I think you're right. Authoritarian mindsets do certainly form a significant part of Trump's base of support. Just consider the white supremacist and white nationalist groups which have allied and been emboldened by the president's words and actions, including the KKK and the American Nazi party. I'd go so far as to state that there's a cult of personality around Trump. And Fox News has become the leading part of his personal propaganda network.
Other segments of his base of support include those who choose to remain superficially (mis)informed while not knowingly disavowing democracy as a fundamental institution. In my personal experience (having dealt with two family members in particular who fit into this category), it's nonetheless very difficult to get them to recognize the man they voted for and what he's doing. They are so inundated with misinformation, they probably would require a long term stay at an intensive un-indoctrination camp to unravel the thick layers of falsehoods that they regard as reality.
All in all, the realization that a growing body of Americans would rather have a tough-talking leader with little regard for either an elected legislature or an independent judiciary is not just a disturbing source of depression for me, but makes me fear for the future of this country as a democratic nation. I used to believe in meeting people halfway and having mutual respect for each others' views. How do you change the minds of people whose minds refuse to change with facts and logic, though? How do you even bring yourself to feign any amount of respect for someone who is unphased by, for instance, the ripping of toddlers away from their parents and caging them, without hope of parental reunification, just because they were fleeing a dangerous home country and trying to seek asylum here? Or who has no moral qualms whatsoever with throwing the First Amendment out the window in order to ban people from six countries where zero terrorists have attacked us from, simply because their personal ignorance about their religion links them with terrorism only in their own ignorant minds? These mindsets essentially boil down to bigotry, quite simply. Uninformed, ignorant, with unwarranted confidence in the overly simplistic yet wrong solutions to half-imagined problems that the authoritarian leader pulls from out of his rump and throws at them. Even in the better case of those who are simply misinformed, how do we get them to pay more attention and think critically about the propaganda they have become so thoroughly indoctrinated with?
It's honestly very difficult to maintain any semblance of optimism for the future at this point in time. But hope does remain, if for no other reason than the fact that there were nearly 3 million more people who voted for Clinton than for Trump in 2016, and Clinton was a poor candidate too. I just hope we can find someone better in 2020, if Trump manages to evade impeachment that is.
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Kangaroo Feathers
Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Watch the first one....
Then the second.....
One gets the impression that Hillary supporters have no values....
Other than hating Trump.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
How did you know? Darn.
tytlyf
Not Religious
Most people dislike Trump. This isn't a new phenomenon.
I feel like there's diminishing returns on that challenge, though. Like, "I can't know for certain what would have happened in a Hillary presidency but Trump is the most corrupt president we've had since Richard Nixon, arguably moreso, and it should come as a surprise to nobody based on his history."