Who are the 'lost sheep' of Israel that Jesus spoke of?

[Harikrish]

According to Josephus, Jesus had Jewish and non-Jewish followers, so apparently He wasn't limiting his message.

sidenote: Although Josephus mixed in his own speculations into his writings, his historical notations should hold at least some credence.

Jesus was evasive, selective and at times in coherent.


Matthew 19:5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans.

I list the verse first followed by the point I am making to show Jesus was not well understood.

Mark 4:34 In fact, in his public ministry he never taught without using parables; but afterward, when he was alone with his disciples, he explained everything to them.

1. So unless you were his disciple. Jesus's teachings remain unexplained to the public.

Luke 18:31 Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled.
32 He will be handed over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him and kill him.
33 On the third day he will rise again."
34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about.

2. Even the disciples did not understand and did not know what Jesus was talking about even after the resurrection. So Jesus never got over his bad habit of speaking in parables and remained inarticulate, incoherent.

Luke 8:10 He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, "'though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.

3. Now it is not Jesus's explanation that can reveal to the disciples, but God has to give them that knowledge. Because Jesus only speaks in parables.


John 16: 25 "Though I have been speaking figuratively, a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father.


4. A time will come when Jesus will speak plainly, coherently. But unfortunately Jesus was put to death before he could. The time for Jesus speaking plainly has passed. Check point 2.

1 Corinthians 2:10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.

5. Maybe it is the Spirit that can reveal all things. But we know the Spirit was not getting through to tbe disciples. They constantly complained they did not get what Jesus was saying. Are we in a conundrum??

 

[paarsurrey]

Further to my post #42 above, I have to add the following for information:

1. "Research shows a relationship between Afghan (Pashun) and Jewish (Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Mizrahi) DNA and also that Afghan DNA is 2nd closest (68.1) to Ashkenazi DNA after Irani and Iraq Jews (67.9). Most of this research used Yusufzai, Afridi or Khattak samples from Pakistan and India. Scientists can draw inferences about Afghan DNA in general from this."
Jewish Facts From Portland: Can Pashtun Tribe of Afghanistan Have Jewish Roots? What DNA Says


2. "Taliban may be descended from Jews"
Taliban may be descended from Jews - Telegraph

Regards

 

[Badran]

***Mod post***

Some posts in this thread have been removed due to violation of the forum rules.​

 

[psychoslice]

Well of course Jesus meant those who don't believe what he does, their the lost, it really means nothing unless you believe in Jesus.

 

[savagewind]

Well of course Jesus meant those who don't believe what he does, their the lost, it really means nothing unless you believe in Jesus.

It is written Jesus came to save the lost sheep. To say lost sheep are the people who don't (or won't) believe what he does makes coming to save them make no sense at all. Why would he come to save people he knows he can't save?

Actually according to the parable of the lost sheep the lost sheep are people who stray from the self righteous people of a sheep fold.

Luke 15:3 Then Jesus told them this parable: 4 “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

 

[Robert.Evans]

What real evidence do you have of this?

It sounds rather absurd

says an atheist ... haha

 

[Robert.Evans]

It is written Jesus came to save the lost sheep. To say lost sheep are the people who don't (or won't) believe what he does makes coming to save them make no sense at all. Why would he come to save people he knows he can't save?

Actually according to the parable of the lost sheep the lost sheep are people who stray from the self righteous people of a sheep fold.

Luke 15:3 Then Jesus told them this parable: 4 “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

Dr Thiering says this:

{The Qof 100, the chief Nazirite, belonged at the Mird fortress itself. He was, in fact, the royal Herod, Agrippa I in the gospel period., He had authority over all Nazirites, as is shown in Josephus, who records that Agrippa ordered them to be "shorn" (Josephus, Ant. 19, 294). Agrippa was the "sheep 100" who was "lost" then reunited with the ascetics when he joined their party, according to the story in Luke 15:3-7. At a later stage, when there was an assassination plot against him, he was the "lamb led to the slaughter", referred to in a coded way by conspirators in Acts 8:32.}

From Qumran to Rome: Word for Word Pesher

It would certainly answer it. On another level, who is the one? Is that the lord himself? I think so. The lamb was carried on his shoulders, something they ddi at Passover. He was the Passover. But how is it that he is not seen as righteous???

 

[ZooGirl02]

I'm not certain but I think he may have been referring to the Sadducees or Pharisees.

 

[outhouse]

says an atheist ... haha

My lack of theism does not stop me from understanding biblical history in context that you never will, as you seem to be possessing a closed mind to what really happened so long ago..


The lost sheep is about early Christianity not making this an exclusive club, in that slaves and poor and oppressed and the strange, should be welcomed with open arms. Gentiles, Jews, Gnostics, everyone who is not part of the current following should be welcomed no matter what culture.

First century Hellenistic Judaism in the temple was set up so that only the rich could worship, you had to pay quite the amount just to have a decent sacrifice. Jesus was against this practice of being charged to worship god.

 

[outhouse]

Dr Thiering says this:

She is a known quack, and its best to avoid reading anything from her.


Her work has not been received well by the learned and educated.

 

[Robert.Evans]

She is a known quack, and its best to avoid reading anything from her.


Her work has not been received well by the learned and educated.

Or pompous. But as I have said before many times, these things are spiritually discerned. History is valuable but only takes you so far.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Jesus was evasive, selective and at times in coherent.

'Incoherent' is one word not two. Does that make you incoherent?

 

[Robert.Evans]

Matthew 19:5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans.

I list the verse first followed by the point I am making to show Jesus was not well understood.

Mark 4:34 In fact, in his public ministry he never taught without using parables; but afterward, when he was alone with his disciples, he explained everything to them.

1. So unless you were his disciple. Jesus's teachings remain unexplained to the public.

Luke 18:31 Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled.
32 He will be handed over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him and kill him.
33 On the third day he will rise again."
34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about.

2. Even the disciples did not understand and did not know what Jesus was talking about even after the resurrection. So Jesus never got over his bad habit of speaking in parables and remained inarticulate, incoherent.

Luke 8:10 He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, "'though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.

3. Now it is not Jesus's explanation that can reveal to the disciples, but God has to give them that knowledge. Because Jesus only speaks in parables.


John 16: 25 "Though I have been speaking figuratively, a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father.


4. A time will come when Jesus will speak plainly, coherently. But unfortunately Jesus was put to death before he could. The time for Jesus speaking plainly has passed. Check point 2.

1 Corinthians 2:10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.

5. Maybe it is the Spirit that can reveal all things. But we know the Spirit was not getting through to tbe disciples. They constantly complained they did not get what Jesus was saying. Are we in a conundrum??

It has always been about those in and those out, that is why it is written the way it is written. As many times as it is explained, people who only understand in worldly terms, only understand it that way.

 

[outhouse]

Or pompous. But as I have said before many times, these things are spiritually discerned. History is valuable but only takes you so far.

False.


Without history you have no context at all, to understand what is written.


Appealing to apologetics will get you no where.

 

[outhouse]

Or pompous..

We don't much care what you think.

You posted a bogus source with no credibility.

 

[savagewind]

False.


Without history you have no context at all, to understand what is written.


Appealing to apologetics will get you no where.

Right! If the past didn't exist we would have nothing to stand on.

 

[outhouse]

Right! If the past didn't exist we would have nothing to stand on.

It is partially that, but what im getting at Is that without cultural anthropology you cannot interpret many passages no matter how hard you try unless you know the context of why they wrote what they did.


Like the passage about the mustard seed, without knowing the history and the context of how THEY used the word, modern man can never understand what the author had meant.

And no amount of spiritual nonsense will ever get it right.

Im not saying spirituality is nonsense, im saying if you think you can use it to interpret the bible your sorely mistaken.

 

[savagewind]

It is partially that, but what im getting at Is that without cultural anthropology you cannot interpret many passages no matter how hard you try unless you know the context of why they wrote what they did.


Like the passage about the mustard seed, without knowing the history and the context of how THEY used the word, modern man can never understand what the author had meant.

And no amount of spiritual nonsense will ever get it right.

Im not saying spirituality is nonsense, im saying if you think you can use it to interpret the bible your sorely mistaken.

History is the study of the past. Evidence is gathered and analysed (by people with the proper degree ). I do not begrudge your love of the truth with evidence.

What do you think these mean?

He who is having an ear -- let him hear what the Spirit says to the assembly Rev 2:29

For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them. Matthew 18:20

teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age. Matthew 28:20

Is it possible that some of us hear from the spirit itself? Why is it not possible according to you?

If Jesus is with us does he not communicate?

 

[outhouse]

I do not do apologetics, but since you asked.

He who is having an ear -- let him hear what the Spirit says to the assembly Rev 2:29

Listen to the positive thoughts in your head during assembly.

For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them. Matthew 18:20

The thought of jesus is shared, when people come together.

teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age. Matthew 28:20

These positive thoughts and teachings are always with you once you have opened your heart to them.

Is it possible that some of us hear from the spirit itself?

No.

That is your mind, all minds are weak and the power of suggestion is very deep.

If Jesus is with us does he not communicate

he is with you in what your mind makes up.




Back then they had no concept of free will or thought.


Every single good thought was a god giving you those thoughts and every bad thought was the devil.


They were so ignorant, they literally all thought little people ran around inside your body.

Good thoughts and heart felt moments was gods spirit working within you. When you thought about god, that thought is within you. They had no idea "within you" was your conscious mind working as nature evolved it into.


Why do you think every person has a different description of what god is and does. and how to worship the concept.


That is why you have different religions all describing things differently.

 

[Etritonakin]

Actually, Jesus was sent primarily to the lost sheep OF THE HOUSE of Israel.....

Mat 15:24 "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

....and also sent the twelve specifically to the lost sheep OF THE HOUSE of Israel....

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL -often referred to as the "lost ten tribes" -are NOT of THE HOUSE OF JUDAH (Judah, Benjamin and some Levites) -they are NOT "the JEWS"

Israel had been split into the two houses by civil war.

Kingdom of Judah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is why the feast of tabernacles and last great day spoken of in John 7 are referred to as "the Jews' feast of tabernacles".

Joh 7:2 Now the Jews' feast of tabernacles was at hand.

"Jew" here does not mean "Israelite"'.

The apostles were "Israelite", yet not necessarily all "Jews" -not necessarily of the house of Judah.

"Jew" has several meanings in scripture, but, generally, it was a slang term for those of the houose of Judah.

Christ was primarily sent to the house of Israel specifically, then sent the twelve to the house of Israel specifically.

Afterward, such as described in Acts, the apostles were sent also to the Jews and Non-Israelites.

Peter's vision of the unclean animals had nothing to do with eating animals, but concerned preaching then to Gentiles -and the apostles also began to interact more with the Jews.

Act 10:9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
Act 10:10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
Act 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Act 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Act 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Act 10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
Act 10:17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,
Act 10:18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.
Act 10:19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
Act 10:20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

The separation of the houses becomes very important in prophecy.
Where Judah is mentioned, for instance, it does not refer to the rest of Israel,
Also, where Ephraim, Manasseh, the house of Israel, etc., are mentioned, it does not refer to Judah.

The house of Israel were prophesied to lose their own identity and original language. Most of the house of Israel today have no idea that they are even Israelites!

Isa 1:3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the *** his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.

Amo 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.