Tazarah
Well-Known Member
OK... well when have the “jews” in Israel ever been led away as captives into all nations?..........
Keywords: captives, all, nations
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Who are the real Children of Israel?
OK... well when have the “jews” in Israel ever been led away as captives into all nations?..........
Keywords: captives, all, nations
74x12
Well-Known Member
They were taken by Assyrian Empire about 722 BC, the Babylonian Empire about 589 BC, and the Roman empire about 70 AD. From there they've been spread all over.
Tazarah
Well-Known Member
Let’s play devil’s advocate and say that those people in Israel are the biblical jews for the sake of argument... now, you just said the Babylonian captivity, Assyrian captivity, and then the Roman captivity. Thats 3 nations that they were captives in. 3. Were the “jews” in Israel ever led away as captives into britain? France? Or Arabia? What about AMERICA? South america? China? Mexico?
“And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into ALL nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” [Luke 21:24]
Israelis were of black origin, as Abrahamic DNA roots exist in Africa...
Judah was thousands of years later, and were beginning to be whiter pale skinned peoples.
The original Abrahamic covenant was made with Ethiopian colored people, not these white imposters claiming they're Israel.
Yet then there are additional contexts since then, so Israel and Judah are both put under the Curse (Zechariah 8:13); many strangers are joined on to Israel, and Judah is blinded to understanding what is really going on (Zechariah 12:4, Deuteronomy 28:28-29).
So who are the real Israel now?
Israel are selected out of the Tribes of the World, by those that are deemed Worthy & Righteous (Revelation 7:4-8).
In my opinion.
Not according to the link you provided, which said...."Since the KJV text was completed in the early 1600s, we have discovered manuscripts of the Bible that are older and believed to be more accurate than the handful used to translate the KJV. The verses in question are not found in the older manuscripts when compared to manuscripts written at a later date.
It is important to note that none of the missing verses alter any vital doctrine or theme of Scripture and tend to be of minor significance. "
Did you misunderstand what it says? Manuscripts OLDER and more accurate than the handful used to translate the KJV were discovered and they did not find those verses in the OLDER manuscripts. It was the KJV that included verses that were NOT in the older manuscripts....so the KJV was wrong. Its a hard pill to swallow I know....but it was your link.
Scratching my head now....this is a complete misunderstanding of the issue. Read the what your link said and realize that this applies to the KJV. They added things that were not found in the older manuscripts. Do you understand? You are arguing against yourself.
I wasn't suggesting that you needed to.....I was merely highlighting that if you don't use archaic English in everyday speech, why would you quote it to people if you are trying to teach them something about the Bible? Someone unfamiliar with archaic English would just laugh at you.
Don't take my word for it.....here is the apostle Paul's advice....."For if the trumpet sounds an indistinct call, who will get ready for battle? 9 In the same way, unless you with the tongue use speech that is easily understood, how will anyone know what is being said? You will, in fact, be speaking into the air." (1 Corinthians 14:8-9) Are you going to argue with Paul?
Speaking of which....how about these little beauties....?
Matthew 19:13-14....KJV
"Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven."
How often I have seen this scripture quoted on the gravestones of small children in the mistaken notion that suffering brings children to Jesus.
It reads in a modern translation...
ESV..."Then children were brought to him that he might lay his hands on them and pray. The disciples rebuked the people, 14 but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”
Any "suffering" mentioned there?
Numbers 23:22...
KJV..."God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn."
ESV..."God brings them out of Egypt and is for them like the horns of the wild ox."
The strength of a unicorn? !
What about Genesis 25:29?
KJV..."And Jacob sod pottage: and Esau came from the field, and he was faint:"
ESV..."Once when Jacob was cooking stew, Esau came in from the field, and he was exhausted."
Genesis 39:8 Joseph's refusal of Potiphar's wife...
"But he refused, and said unto his master's wife, Behold, my master wotteth not what is with me in the house, and he hath committed all that he hath to my hand"
ESV..."But he refused and said to his master's wife, “Behold, because of me my master has no concern about anything in the house, and he has put everything that he has in my charge."
Mark 1:30...KJV
"But Simon's wife's mother lay sick of a fever, and anon they tell him of her."
ESV... "Now Simon's mother-in-law lay ill with a fever, and immediately they told him about her."
So with just those few examples, which one speaks the language that most people speak today? If you read them these verse from the KJV would they have any idea of what you were talking about?
The KJV is one of the worst translations for misunderstanding scripture. You might understand it but a lot of people wouldn't...that was my point.
InChrist
Free4ever
I think according to the scriptures the way to identify the descendants of the biblical Israelites is the keeping of the Sabbath, as Jews in Israel do. The israelites and their descendants, the Jewish people have been keeping the Sabbath generation after generation wherever they have been exiled, scattered, or gone throughout the world. This is a clear identifying sign that the Jews are the actual descendants of the original children of Israel.
And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. Exodus 31:12
And I gave them My statutes and showed them My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them.’ Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them. Ezekiel 20:11-12
I am the Lord your God: Walk in My statutes, keep My judgments, and do them; hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God. Ezekiel 20:19
The existence of the Jews today, their presence in Israel, and the rebirth of the nation Israel constitutes one of the greatest proofs that God exists, He fulfills His prophetic word, He keeps His promises to His covenant people, and that the Bible is His Word.
Tazarah
Well-Known Member
Anybody can keep the sabbath. But just because somebody keeps the sabbath does not mean that they are fulfilling biblical prophecy regarding the prophecies that the Israelites are supposed to fulfill, like the ones I listed in the OP. How does keeping the sabbath fulfill prophecy?
When did the “jews” in israel ever get sent as slaves on ships to an unknown land to serve their enemies with yokes of iron upon their necks? When were the “jews” in israel ever led into all nations as captives?
“And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into ALL nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” [Luke 21:24]
When did the “jews” in israel ever fulfill the prophetic curses of deuteronomy 28:15-68?
Deuteronomy 28:45-46 says that the curses would be upon the israelites FOR EVER as a SIGN and a wonder... none of the israelite prophecy has been fulfilled by the “jews” in israel.
I am not denying the fact that God exists — I am simply pointing out the fact that the “jews” in israel have not fulfilled any of the biblical israelite prophecy. God said that he would place the jews into israel himself upon his return, the bible says nothing about the UN or a balfour declaration.
Anybody can migrate into israel, begin to keep the sabbath, and call themselves jews. Why is it that nobody can ever explain how or when the “jews” in israel fulfilled any of the biblical israelite prophecies OTHER than them “returning” to israel?
“I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” [Revelation 2:9]
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74x12
Well-Known Member
Well, that's not fair. They aren't just 3 nations but 3 empires which were so vast that in their day; people considered them as basically rulers of the world. Obviously they didn't rule the whole world but that's how they were considered. So the Roman empire for example was really comprised of many nations. Same for Babylonian and Assyrian empires. Not to mention the Persian and Greek empires.
What is now Britain and France were part of the Roman empire so it is likely that some Jews were led captive to those regions.
Tazarah
Well-Known Member
But... the Roman captivity was the captivity that the israelites were currently in during Luke 21:24 and Jesus was alive during that time period...
The captivities in chronological order go like this:
Egyptian > Assyrian > Babylonian > Persian > Greek > Roman ...
... Luke 21:24 was basically Jesus prophesying during the Roman captivity that after his death there would be ANOTHER captivity, one last captivity, where the israelites would be led away as captives into ALL nations... the bible describes in great detail how the israelites fled into africa but were still captured by their enemies, taken as captives and scattered to the corners of the earth (all nations) on ships as slaves to be sold to their enemies in unknown lands, where they would have yokes of iron put upon their necks... (Deuteronomy 28:15-68) nothing like this has happened to the converted “jews” in israel today who took the holy land by force in 1947... but according to world history we do know which group of people this did happen to.
Like I already mentioned, I always find it extremely funny how people are never able to match the jewish converts up with biblical israelite prophecy... people always jump straight to the end of israelite prophecy and say “Well hey! They went into israel in 1947! So they must be the israelites! They fulfilled prophecy!!’ ... haha
“I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” [Revelation 2:9]
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74x12
Well-Known Member
Although the Roman empire ruled over Judea yet the Jews were not exiled from the land yet. Jerusalem was still standing. The temple service continued. It was not until Jerusalem was destroyed and the Jews were enslaved and dragged off all over the empire that is what Luke 21:24 and 19:44 is about. This is spoken of in Josephus' book "The Wars of the Jews".
Tazarah
Well-Known Member
Luke 21:24 (during the Roman captivity) is Christ saying that during a future time, the israelites were going to be led away as captives into all nations... when were the “jews” in israel led away as captives into all nations, AFTER the roman captivity?
74x12
Well-Known Member
The Roman captivity had not yet taken place. They were under Roman rule but they had not been exiled or captured and sold as slaves yet. That happened soon afterwards. It was Titus the son of the new emperor Vespasian who completed the conquest of Jerusalem. He destroyed every building but a few towers which he left standing to prove how great of a city Jerusalem had once been.
Here is the Romans parading the Menorah from the Jerusalem temple after they destroyed it.
I keep saying it's in Josephus' book called The Wars of the Jews.
Tazarah
Well-Known Member
The Roman captivity had not yet taken place. They were under Roman rule but they had not been exiled or captured and sold as slaves yet. That happened soon afterwards. It was Titus the son of the new emperor Vespasian who completed the conquest of Jerusalem. He destroyed every building but a few towers which he left standing to prove how great of a city Jerusalem had once been.
Here is the Romans parading the Menorah from the Jerusalem temple after they destroyed it.
I keep saying it's in Josephus' book called The Wars of the Jews.
OK, were the “jews” led as captives into all nations then? At what point in documented history have the european converted “jews” in israel ever been led away as captives into all nations? All of the other 5 biblical captivities had already happened... So whether we are talking about during or after the Roman captivity, when have the “jews” in israel ever been led away as slaves/captives into all nations?
Luke 21:24
"And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."
Yes, Jesus was alive during the Roman domination of the Jews. And he did nothing to interfere with it. He knew where God's people were in the stream of time.
First of all we have to understand what the "times of the Gentiles" mean in the context here.
What does it mean that "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles" ?
Daniel answers this question. The Gentile nations that dominated the Jewish people began with Babylon (not Egypt) and went through Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome and onto Britain who amalgamated with the the USA in the the final part of this period. (Daniel 2:29-45)
The march of world powers would begin with Babylon and end with the last world power to dominate the Jewish people....Anglo-America. It is in the days of those final rulers that God brings his Kingdom by crushing all opposing human rulership out of existence. (Daniel 2:44)
Seeing the Israeli people in the land of their forefathers is not the fulfillment of prophesy. The Nation of Israel is not necessarily "Jewish" by religion but more "Jewish" by nationality. Many Jews are secular rather than religious, so the restoration of God's worship was never established there. Israel is just another blood spilling political nation, like any other. (Isaiah 1:15)
Jews are found in every nation and they are governed by the the laws of the nations in which they live. They have no Temple and offer no sacrifices according to their law. They are very much dominated by Gentile nations to this day. But this is the time period in which it all comes to its finish. The "times of the Gentiles" are about to end. There are no other rulers mentioned after Anglo-America in Daniel's prophesy.
This is "the time of the end".....so we had better get things right as far as our worship is concerned.
"And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."
Yes, Jesus was alive during the Roman domination of the Jews. And he did nothing to interfere with it. He knew where God's people were in the stream of time.
First of all we have to understand what the "times of the Gentiles" mean in the context here.
What does it mean that "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles" ?
Daniel answers this question. The Gentile nations that dominated the Jewish people began with Babylon (not Egypt) and went through Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome and onto Britain who amalgamated with the the USA in the the final part of this period. (Daniel 2:29-45)
The march of world powers would begin with Babylon and end with the last world power to dominate the Jewish people....Anglo-America. It is in the days of those final rulers that God brings his Kingdom by crushing all opposing human rulership out of existence. (Daniel 2:44)
Seeing the Israeli people in the land of their forefathers is not the fulfillment of prophesy. The Nation of Israel is not necessarily "Jewish" by religion but more "Jewish" by nationality. Many Jews are secular rather than religious, so the restoration of God's worship was never established there. Israel is just another blood spilling political nation, like any other. (Isaiah 1:15)
Jews are found in every nation and they are governed by the the laws of the nations in which they live. They have no Temple and offer no sacrifices according to their law. They are very much dominated by Gentile nations to this day. But this is the time period in which it all comes to its finish. The "times of the Gentiles" are about to end. There are no other rulers mentioned after Anglo-America in Daniel's prophesy.
This is "the time of the end".....so we had better get things right as far as our worship is concerned.
Tazarah
Well-Known Member
You are missing the point... during the time of Roman rule (Luke 21:24), Jesus prophesies that the Israelites would be led away captive into all nations........ when did this happen to the israeli “jews” who claim to be the descendants of the biblical jews? When did they fulfill that prophecy? They have not. Because they are the impostors that Revelation 2:9 and Revelation 3:9 warns us about during the last days. Those european converts in Israel today have no fulfilled any biblical Israelite prophecy. The only thing that they have done is take the holy land by force in 1947 with the belp of the UN.
Being an Israelite is in your blood. It is a bloodline. There is a difference between being a converted jew who follows “judaism”, a man-made religion, and being an actual descendant of the biblical israelites. The people in Israel today are not the descendants of the biblical Israelites. They have not fulfilled any of the Israelite prophecy. They don’t even believe in the bible, they created their own book, full of evil, called the Talmud.
Tumah
Veteran Member
You understand that what you've been doing here is splitting "European Jews" from the rest of the Jewish nation and then questioning when X happened to those particular Jews. I can do the same thing: when were you in particular taken captive with chains around your neck and sent to all the nations. You see that doesn't make sense. You include yourself among other people of your nation and your ancestors.
The "European Jews" are part of the Jewish nation which includes Jews from all around the world. The prophecies from Deuteronomy were fulfilled [some] before or during the exiling of the nation from the land of Israel and [some] after the exile of the nation from the land. There may be particular verses that had not happened to the Jews living in Europe between the 11th and 20th centuries. But they did happen to Jews living in say, Babylon during the second century.
And to reiterate, the Jewish nation includes Jews from all over the world. European Jews only make up about 50% of Jewish people. The other 50% come from countries throughout the Middle East (it's actually less than 50% for both, because there are Jews as far away as India, but the overwhelmingly vast majority are either from Europe or from the Middle East). In Israel as well, European Jews only make up about half of the Jewish people.
For further reading:
Jewish history - Wikipedia
Jewish ethnic divisions - Wikipedia
Genetic studies on Jews - Wikipedia
Tazarah
Well-Known Member
When was I taken away captive with chains on my neck to all nations? Easy! My ancestors during the trans-atlantic slave trade.
Now, when have any of the “jews” in Israel ever been led captive into all nations? ....
BTW — ancient Israelite DNA has NEVER been sequenced....
THammons: They have never sequenced the DNA of the ancient Judaeans/ Israelites. | Rasta Livewire
So who are they comparing their DNA to? And on top of that, here is what the bible says about “DNA” and “science” :
“O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:” [1 Timothy 6:20]
“Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.” [1 Timothy 1:4]
“But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.” [Titus 3:9]
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Tumah
Veteran Member
I didn't ask about your ancestors. I asked about you specifically. When were you taken away captive with chains on your neck to all the nations?
During the first few hundred years after the destruction of the Temple. Jews were captured and sold as slaves all over the place.
Tazarah
Well-Known Member
You sound like a triggered fool. The bible says that the israelites would be led captive into ALL nations... my ancestors were led captive into ALL nations, and now here I am in america.
When did any of this happen to israeli jews???? Please point out a time in documented history when israeli “jews” were captured and led captive into ALL nations like bible prophecy says?
“Jews were captured and sold all over the place”
^ LMAO!!!! Is that the best you got? You come here asking me when have I personally had chains around my neck, and then you simply say jews were sold all over the place. Come on now, let’s discuss the matter like adults.
WHEN were israeli “jews” led away as captives into ALL nations?
“I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” [Revelation 2:9]
Tazarah
Well-Known Member
Yes, I know the difference — the difference is that the actual Israelites did not need to convert to “judaism”. Did Jesus need to convert to become a jew? Lmao.