Who are the real Children of Israel?

[Tazarah]

Yeah, but there are different Jewish groups, or rather histories. Because they were all over europe. So, it could be, 'judaism', was the option, or the only option. Saying judaism isnt israelite, doesnt work.

Well when I say Israelite I mean Israelite in the sense that being an Israelite was their ethnicity/nationality. There is an actual Israelite bloodline. For example, if two Israelites had a child then their offspring would be considered an Israelite regardless of whether or not he chose to follow God’s laws or worship another God. Just like how for instance, two ancient egyptians could have had a child but when that child grows up he decides to become a bhuddist. Regardless of what religious practices that egyptian child has, he is still an egyptian by blood. Same with the ancient Israelites. The bloodline still exists.

However — those people in Israel today are NOT the descendants of the ancient Israelites. They can practice or convert to what they want, but they are not the descendants of Abahram > Isaac > Jacob like they have been lying to the world and claiming to be.

 

[Tumah]

You sound like a triggered fool. The bible says that the israelites would be led captive into ALL nations... my ancestors were led captive into ALL nations, and now here I am in america.

When did any of this happen to israeli jews???? Please point out a time in documented history when israeli “jews” were captured and led captive into ALL nations like bible prophecy says?

“Jews were captured and sold all over the place”

^ LMAO!!!! Is that the best you got? You come here asking me when have I personally had chains around my neck, and then you simply say jews were sold all over the place. Come on now, let’s discuss the matter like adults.

WHEN were israeli “jews” led away as captives into ALL nations?

“I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” [Revelation 2:9]

The reason why I ask if you were taken captive personally, is because you keep splitting off European Jews from the rest of the nation. By virtue of that same logic, we should split you off from the rest of the people of your nation. Now, you switched to Israeli Jews, but Israeli Jews are Jews whose ancestors come from all across the world and today live in Israel.

Just like you understand that segmenting you from the rest of your nation and history as a way of proving that these curses weren't fulfilled in you is stupid, it's also stupid to segment the Jewish people whether geographically or chronologically as a way to prove that these curses were never fulfilled in us. So European Jews, although they suffered from rape and pillaging, by and large weren't sold as slaves, however, their ancestors - those that were exiled from the country of Israel following the destruction of the Second Temple, were captured and sold as slaves. Similarly, Israeli Jews, who actually come from a very broad range of countries, were never captured or sold as slaves, because Israeli Jews (outside the few that had already lived here) only moved here in the past 70 years. However, like other Jews, their ancestors were captured and sold as slaves.

So you see, it's the same logic. Just like you personally weren't captured and sold as a slave, but you say that your nation was because in your national history, your ancestors were sold as slaves, so too although today there are no Jews who were captured and sold as slaves, we have in our national history ancestors who were sold as slaves.

I also notice that you keep stressing "all nations" but I don't see this in any of the verses in Deuteronomy.

Also, I'm not expert on Christian religious books, but I think you are going to end up with a contradiction between your religious books if you are going to say that the quoted verse from Revelations is saying that the author means that the people living in Israel at the time the book was written aren't real Jews.

 

[Tazarah]

The reason why I ask if you were taken captive personally, is because you keep splitting off European Jews from the rest of the nation. By virtue of that same logic, we should split you off from the rest of the people of your nation. Now, you switched to Israeli Jews, but Israeli Jews are Jews whose ancestors come from all across the world and today live in Israel.

Just like you understand that segmenting you from the rest of your nation and history as a way of proving that these curses weren't fulfilled in you is stupid, it's also stupid to segment the Jewish people whether geographically or chronologically as a way to prove that these curses were never fulfilled in us. So European Jews, although they suffered from rape and pillaging, by and large weren't sold as slaves, however, their ancestors - those that were exiled from the country of Israel following the destruction of the Second Temple, were captured and sold as slaves. Similarly, Israeli Jews, who actually come from a very broad range of countries, were never captured or sold as slaves, because Israeli Jews (outside the few that had already lived here) only moved here in the past 70 years. However, like other Jews, their ancestors were captured and sold as slaves.

So you see, it's the same logic. Just like you personally weren't captured and sold as a slave, but you say that your nation was because in your national history, your ancestors were sold as slaves, so too although today there are no Jews who were captured and sold as slaves, we have in our national history ancestors who were sold as slaves.

I also notice that you keep stressing "all nations" but I don't see this in any of the verses in Deuteronomy.

Also, I'm not expert on Christian religious books, but I think you are going to end up with a contradiction between your religious books if you are going to say that the quoted verse from Revelations is saying that the author means that the people living in Israel at the time the book was written aren't real Jews.

Seems like you want to play games and beat around the bush. Enough with the semantics.

NONE of the world’s “jews” have been led captive into all nations. NO nation of people except for negroes have been literally led captive into all nations, as prophesied in the bible, old and new testament.

Literally everything that I have mentioned can be found in Deuteronomy 28:15-68.

Here is the million dollar question once again:

WHEN have israeli/european/american/ashkenazi/sephardic ETC. “jews” ever been led away as captives into ALL nations? WHEN, at what point in history has this happened to them?

“The LORD shall bring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee, unto a nation WHICH NEITHER THOU NOR THY FATHERS HAVE KNOWN; and there shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone.” [Deuteronomy 28:36]

“Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a YOKE OF IRON upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.” [Deuteronomy 28:48]

“And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.“ [Deuteronomy 28:64]

“And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into ALL NATIONS: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” [Luke 21:24]

“And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.“ [Genesis 15:13-14]

“And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years.
And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and serve me in this place.” [Acts 7:6-7]

 

[Tazarah]

What happened, was a religious division. Thats why christianity, and judaism, are different. Jesus didn't practice what we know of, as 'judaism', and that difference persisted, to the actual religion, difference, later. Christianity, & Judaism. So, this was not an ethnic division, it was religious. That being said, determining such, nowadays, is a hodge podge of backward direction logic, hmm like trying to figure out something that is already mixed up.
Christianity is mix of gnostic etc stuff, largely, with the correct text, [to an extent
Judaism is a mix of some ideas
Neither religion is completely Biblical.

So...what type of religion, do you have?

Exactly.

Man created religion — God gave man the bible.

 

[Tumah]

Seems like you want to play games and beat around the bush. Enough with the semantics.

Semantics is an important part of language as it allows us to communicate with each other in a way that is mutually intelligible. The phrase "beat around the bush" means to talk about something without directly saying it. But I've been quite direct this entire time.

NONE of the world’s “jews” have been led captive into all nations. NO nation of people except for negroes have been literally led captive into all nations, as prophesied in the bible, old and new testament.

Literally everything that I have mentioned can be found in Deuteronomy 28:15-68.

Can you quote the verse from Deuteronomy that says the Jews would be led captive into all nations?

Here is the million dollar question once again:

Thanks!

WHEN have israeli/european/american/ashkenazi/sephardic ETC. “jews” ever been led away as captives into ALL nations? WHEN, at what point in history has this happened to them?

The word "all" is being added here for no reason. However, after the destruction of the Second Temple, the Jews were captured and sold to many nations.

“The LORD shall bring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee, unto a nation WHICH NEITHER THOU NOR THY FATHERS HAVE KNOWN; and there shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone.” [Deuteronomy 28:36]

This happened after the destruction of the First Temple when we were sent to Babylon.

“Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a YOKE OF IRON upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.” [Deuteronomy 28:48]

This happened after the destruction of the Second Temple.

“And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.“ [Deuteronomy 28:64]

This happened after the First and Second Temples.

“And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into ALL NATIONS: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” [Luke 21:24]

This is not a new prophecy just a bad rewording of the previous prophecies.

“And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.“ [Genesis 15:13-14]

This happened in Egypt.

“And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years.
And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and serve me in this place.” [Acts 7:6-7]

This is again, not a prophecy, but apparently a rewording of the prophecy from Genesis.

 

[Tazarah]

Semantics is an important part of language as it allows us to communicate with each other in a way that is mutually intelligible. The phrase "beat around the bush" means to talk about something without directly saying it. But I've been quite direct this entire time.


Can you quote the verse from Deuteronomy that says the Jews would be led captive into all nations?


Thanks!


The word "all" is being added here for no reason. However, after the destruction of the Second Temple, the Jews were captured and sold to many nations.


This happened after the destruction of the First Temple when we were sent to Babylon.


This happened after the destruction of the Second Temple.


This happened after the First and Second Temples.


This is not a new prophecy just a bad rewording of the previous prophecies.


This happened in Egypt.


This is again, not a prophecy, but apparently a rewording of the prophecy from Genesis.

First of all, the Egyptian captivity was 430 years — not 400. Genesis 15:13-14 and Acts 7:6-7 is NOT talking about Egypt. We also know that those verses are not referring to Egypt because the scripture in Genesis 15:13 say that the Israelites would be “STRANGERS” in a land, and Acts 7:6 says the same thing — that they would be in a “STRANGE” land. So you’ve fallen flat on your face with that one.

You want to play games with Deuteronomy 28, but Luke 21:24 clearly says ALL nations... it’s easy for you to say “this was then, that was then”, but WHEN in history were they led away as captives into all nations?

When were the people claiming to be jews ever led away captive into ALL nations? ... “previous prophecy” or not, WHEN in history did it happen to them?

Give me DATES and NAMES of “ALL” the nations they were sent as CAPTIVES to...

lmao!!!!

“And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into ALL nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” [Luke 21:24]

 

[Tumah]

First of all, the egyptian captivity was 430 years — not 400.

The extra 30 are the years between the time the decree was made at the Covenant Cetween the Parts until the count started.

Why would egypt be “reworded” in The NT? LMAO.

No, I mean that entire prophecy was just reiterated.

You want to play games with deuteronomy 28, but Luke 21:24 clearly says ALL nations...

It appears so. However, the book of Luke is not a Book of G-d's Word, it's just some traditions mixed with some polemics and re-worded prophecies, so it doesn't really matter what it says there.

When were the people claiming to be jews ever led away captive into ALL nations? ... “previous prophecy” or not, WHEN in history did it happen to them?

Again, you keep adding the word "ALL" but this word is not found in any prophetic works from G-d. Deuteronomy does not say "ALL" anywhere.

“And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” [Luke 21:24]

^ when did that happen to them?

That isn't a prophecy. That is the author of the book of Luke ret-conning what was happening at the time the book was being written, into a prophecy that was supposed to have been made 40 or so years earlier. It's fake news.

 

[Rival]

First of all, the Egyptian captivity was 430 years — not 400. Genesis 15:13-14 and Acts 7:6-7 is NOT talking about Egypt. We also know that those verses are not referring to Egypt because the scripture in Genesis 15:13 say that the Israelites would be “STRANGERS” in a land, and Acts 7:6 says the same thing — that they would be in a “STRANGE” land. So you’ve fallen flat on your face with that one.

You want to play games with Deuteronomy 28, but Luke 21:24 clearly says ALL nations... it’s easy for you to say “this was then, that was then”, but WHEN in history were they led away as captives into all nations?

When were the people claiming to be jews ever led away captive into ALL nations? ... “previous prophecy” or not, WHEN in history did it happen to them?

Give me DATES and NAMES of “ALL” the nations they were sent as CAPTIVES to...

lmao!!!!

“And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into ALL nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” [Luke 21:24]

Stop using Christian scripture to try to convince people who don't believe in it. It's pointless.

 

[Rival]

Are you referring to the delusional “Tumah”?

Excuse me, but Tumah is not delusional. He is one of the most intelligent posters on here. His Scripture does not include any of what you call the NT, because he is a Jew. Not only is he a Jew, he studies the texts you are debating pretty much daily. But quoting Christian scripture to him (or me) is meaningless because he does not believe in it. You are going to have to prove all your assertions using the 'OT', as you call it.

And by the way, I've already reported your anti-Semitic nonsense and your personal attacks. Your last response to him was the death rattle of a dying creature. You and your ridiculous theology got slaughtered.

 

[Tazarah]

Excuse me, but Tumah is not delusional. He is one of the most intelligent posters on here. His Scripture does not include any of what you call the NT, because he is a Jew. Not only is he a Jew, he studies the texts you are debating pretty much daily. But quoting Christian scripture to him (or me) is meaningless because he does not believe in it. You are going to have to prove all your assertions using the 'OT', as you call it.

And by the way, I've already reported your anti-Semitic nonsense and your personal attacks.

So now I’m anti-semitic because he can’t explain the scripture that he “studies”? LOL!!!

 

[Rival]

So now I’m anti-semitic because he can’t explain the scripture that he “studies”? LOL!!!

Yes, you have a nasty attitude and a ridiculous theology and you insulted Tumah. Three things that never go down well with me. Have fun with your black Israelite fantasy.

 

[Tazarah]

Excuse me, but Tumah is not delusional. He is one of the most intelligent posters on here. His Scripture does not include any of what you call the NT, because he is a Jew. Not only is he a Jew, he studies the texts you are debating pretty much daily. But quoting Christian scripture to him (or me) is meaningless because he does not believe in it. You are going to have to prove all your assertions using the 'OT', as you call it.

And by the way, I've already reported your anti-Semitic nonsense and your personal attacks.

I have used the OT — the curses of Deuteronomy 28:15-68 — the curses that God says would be upon the Israelites as a SIGN forever. I asked him to explain why have his people not fulfilled the prophetic curses? Not a single one of them. He simply excused them. The OP I made contains nothing but OT verses. You and people like you need to wake up.

“Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee:
And they shall be upon thee for a SIGN and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for FOR EVER.” [Deuteronomy 28:45-46]

^^^ explain that? And then the rest of the curses in Deuteronomy 28:15-68

What about this one:

“And thou, even thyself, shalt discontinue from thine heritage that I gave thee; and I will cause thee to serve thine enemies in the land which thou knowest not: for ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn FOR EVER.” [Jeremiah 17:4]

^^^ ???

 

[Tazarah]

Yes, you have a nasty attitude and a ridiculous theology and you insulted Tumah. Three things that never go down well with me. Have fun with your black Israelite fantasy.

When have israeli “jews” ever been led away as captives into ALL nations, or been sent as slaves on ships with yokes of iron upon their necks to serve enemies in an unknown land? I’m not making this up — the bible says that’s what would happen to the israelites. WHEN did this happen tk the “jews” in israel??

LOL

That’s how you know that what I’m saying is the truth — because not a single one of you can explain why none of the “jews” in israel fulfill prophecy, and instead you cry “anti-semitism”, what’s the problem? If I’m wrong then prove me wrong! LOL

What about this one?

“Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.
The sons of JAPHETH; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
And the sons of Gomer; ASHKENAZ, and Riphath, and Togarmah.
And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.
By these were the isles of the GENTILES divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.” [Genesis 10:1-5]

^ that’s OT. The very first book.

Can any of you explain that? Lmao.

Want to know why israeli “jews” don’t read the NT? THIS is why:

“I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” [Revelation 2:9]

 

[Rival]

I have used the OT — the curses of Deuteronomy 28:15-68 — the curses that God says would be upon the Israelites as a SIGN forever. I asked him to explain why have his people not fulfilled the prophetic curses? Not a single one of them. He simply excused them. The OP I made contains nothing but OT verses. You and people like you need to wake up.

“Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee:
And they shall be upon thee for a SIGN and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for FOR EVER.” [Deuteronomy 28:45-46]

^^^ explain that? And then the rest of the curses in Deuteronomy 28:15-68

What about this one:

“And thou, even thyself, shalt discontinue from thine heritage that I gave thee; and I will cause thee to serve thine enemies in the land which thou knowest not: for ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn FOR EVER.” [Jeremiah 17:4]

^^^ ???

Tumah has already responded to your claims, there's no reason for me to try to convince you by putting the same words in a different order. And to be quite honest, this nonsense isn't worth responding to at nearly one a.m.

 

[Tazarah]

Tumah has already responded to your claims, there's no reason for me to try to convince you by putting the same words in a different order. And to be quite honest, this nonsense isn't worth responding to at nearly one a.m.

Yes he has responded, but with nonsense. Prophecy says that the Israelites would be led captive into all nations, and the curses of deuteronomy 28:15-68 are said by God to be a way to identify the Israelites for ever. Why have the israeli “jews” fulfilled none of the prophecy concering the prophetic curses?

You guys can run around in circles all you want and pretend like you are making legitimate claims but the bible says what it says, and israeli “jews” haven’t fulfilled a single biblical prophecy, OT or NT.

To any believer in God, who actually reads and knows the scriptures, the fact that the israeli “jews” have not fulfilled a single Israelite prophey regarding what the bible says is supposed to happen to the Israelites should send red flags everywhere.

Report me all you want, I haven’t done anything but speak the truth. Whoever has a problem with it needs to take a long hard look in the mirror and re-evaluate the relationship that you THINK you have with God.

“I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” [Revelation 2:9]

 

[Tazarah]

Yes, you have a nasty attitude and a ridiculous theology and you insulted Tumah. Three things that never go down well with me. Have fun with your black Israelite fantasy.

P.S. when you get a chance, please explain how my “theology is ridiculous” when all I have done is read the scriptures word for word and ask for explanations? And then when nobody can provide legitimate explanations, I’M the one with the “ridiculous theology”? LOL!!!!

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” [Hebrews 4:12]

 

[Rival]

P.S. when you get a chance, please explain how my “theology is ridiculous” when all I have done is read the scriptures word for word and ask for explanations? And then when nobody can provide legitimate explanations, I’M the one with the “ridiculous theology”? LOL!!!!

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” [Hebrews 4:12]

You obviously didn't ask any Charedim for explanations because they'd have put you straight. All you've done is form your opinion and then look for scripture that you think supports it. All Christians do this.

Right, I'm going to bed. Night night.

 

[Tazarah]

You obviously didn't ask any Charedim for explanations because they'd have put you straight. All you've done is form your opinion and then look for scripture that you think supports it. All Christians do this.

Right, I'm going to bed. Night night.

Yeah well next time you talk to whoever they are then make sure to ask them when have israeli “jews” ever been led away as captives into all nations as slaves on ships with yokes of iron upon their necks to serve their enemies in an unknown land — like the BIBLE SAYS would happen to the Israelites. It’s not my opinion, buddy — it’s the word of God — OT. I’m not a christian.

 

[Tazarah]

Anybody who is willing to discuss this issue like an adult, and without getting their feelings involved, then let’s talk — WHEN have the “jews” in Israel ever fulfilled the prophetic curses of Israelite prophecy?

“Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee:
And they shall be upon thee for a SIGN and for a wonder, and upon thy seed FOR EVER.” [Deuteronomy 28:45-46]

Why do they relate to NONE of the prophetic curses that God says would be upon the Israelites FOR EVER as a sign, for them not obeying his laws?

People here want to complain about me using the NT, fine, I’ll dismantle all of your flawed claims with the OT too then, not a problem. Keep in mind that the prophetic curses of Deuteronomy 28:15-68 ARE in the OT... The OT also says that the Israelites would LOSE their heritage in Jeremiah...

“And thou, even thyself, shalt discontinue from thine heritage that I gave thee; and I will cause thee to serve thine enemies in the land which thou knowest not: for ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn for ever.” [Jeremiah 17:4]

^ when have israeli “jews” ever lost a heritage? I can go on and on and on. And like I have already mentioned in a previous post — Genesis 10:1-5 proves that they are gentiles, and not truly jews.

But most importantly — WHEN in history have israeli “jews” ever been taken as slaves on ships with yokes of iron upon their necks to be sold to their enemies and serve them in an unknown land? ................................................... Don’t worry, I’ll wait.

 

[rosends]

a quick question about those curses (and by the way, the Jerusalem Talmud answers about the yoke thing though I don't see reference to ships in that section) -- if you believe that any group has undergone what is literally listed there then by definition, that group no longer exists because the curse says that it will happen "until He has wiped you out." So what group did you have in mind which has been wiped out but still exists, or do you not understand that phrase literally?