That's not a fair assessment. According to the Bible, God hardened Pharoah's heart. He stacked the deck so that Pharoah wouldn't be swayed.
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Who are you to question God? really...
- Thread starter Lady B
- Start date
That's not a fair assessment. According to the Bible, God hardened Pharoah's heart. He stacked the deck so that Pharoah wouldn't be swayed.
Lady B
noob
Oh penguin, I missed you!
actually If you read my entire post,I said unless god draws him.
I read that. My point was that in that story, God actively pushed Pharoah away, so you can't use that example to say that the miracles by themselves wouldn't have been enough.
Agnostic75
Well-Known Member
Lady B said:
You are still missing the issue, which is, is God able to provide additional evidence that would cause more people to love and accept him? If the answer is "yes," then God is deliberately preventing more people from accepting him. I have had lots of debates about this issue before. Since very few Christians will claim that God is not able to provide additional evidence that would convince more people to love and accept him, they eventually have to end up claiming that might makes right, which Romans chapter 9 seems to say, or that God can do whatever he wants to do, or that God is perfect. Of course, such claims are very difficult to reasonably prove.
I am sure that you know that the skeptics that you are having discussions with do not believe that the God of the Bible exists, and are just having some discussions with you about God for the sake of argument. What you need is evidence that the God of the Bible exists.
I cannot imagine a God who considers the spreading of the Gospel message to be very important, but refuses to ever do it himself. In addition, I cannot imagine a God who wants Christians to give food to hungry people, but refuses for give food directly to people himself. If the God of the Bible does not exist, that easily explains those situations. If he does exist, there are not any reaonsable explanations for those things. You can take guesses, but that is all that they would be.
The Bible threatens people with punishment, but never clearly states what the punishment will be, and if the punishment will be forever without parole. That doesn't sound like a moral God to me.
One thing that all of the Gods of all religions have in common is that they never show up, tangibly, in person, in order to eliminate lots of confusion. The fact that they never show up suggests that either naturalism is true, or a God exists who does not have any interest in verbally communicating with humans, or communicating with them with writings. Logically, deism, or naturalism, are the best choices for worldviews. In my opinion, a loving God would judge people, if at all, by their works, not by their beliefs.
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Lady B
noob
My God did show up and My God does make provisions for the poor and has fed the poor and hungry himself,( Manna). He also has commanded us to give to the poor and needy. He also has communicated and given his word to us to live by.He has not failed us in any of these areas you claim, you just cannot see it, and this is so very sad...
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Where?
When?
Which word?
Well, if God's aim is to help the needy, feed the hungry, clothe the poor and redeem the unredeemed, he is absolutely failing to do all of those things. If an infinitely powerful being aimed to do those things, then they simply wouldn't happen. Ever. Either God is failing because he is weak, or God is refusing to help because they are apathetic/malevolent, or such a God doesn't exist.
Study history. None of the events in the bible happened... where is the mana foor feeding the poor? How ever the ammount of people who died from hunger....
he also commanded to kill witches. Should i be killed?
God does nothing. God is no where. And if god were a man he would be charged with crimes against humanity and america would invade his country.
Show me a church feeding the hungary and ill show you a secular group doing the same. And again you can not show me god feeding the hungry but i can show people dieing of hunger. Imo your blind to the state if the world and ignorant of history.
If God provides for the poor, what's the point of you feeding them? Doesn't God have the situation in hand?
Bird123
Well-Known Member
Is it really intelligent not to be above these petty things? Perhaps, it's time to question the bible rather than blindly accept it. Just like all the physics of this world add up so does everything about God. Does everything about the bible really add up? This case we have here shows it doesn't.
Bird123
Well-Known Member
If God exists then God can be found and I do not mean within the pages of a book. Me make up God?? With God's intelligence, I struggle to keep up. I am but a mere ant. Perhaps if you discover God for yourself, you will find God at a much higher level than the descriptions you have been taught. Isn't God much more than you can find in any book?? In reality, much more than you could possibly imagine.
Then why not just relax knowing that no one can disrespect your god but you. No one knows your god but you. No one can insult your god because you are the only one who knows who your god is. If your god is above reproval than it is not possible for your god to be reproved. If people are mistaken about your god, then it is not your god they are talking about at all.
Nix has just expressed much the same views that I have.
For all the views we don't share, it's funny how many others we do.
And it's often the ones that might leave others scratching thier heads. lol
It's all in the angle, and the focus. :cover:
Diversity of opinion is over-rated, perhaps tragically so.
We live in much the same world (albeit sometimes too insulated to feel that way) and under much the same needs and constraints (again, qualifiers apply) so it should come as no big surprise that often enough there will be strong agreement.
These days it sometimes almost looks like people sincerely believe that having a passionate ideology is legitimate grounds for twisting perception or testimony just like that.
We live in much the same world (albeit sometimes too insulated to feel that way) and under much the same needs and constraints (again, qualifiers apply) so it should come as no big surprise that often enough there will be strong agreement.
These days it sometimes almost looks like people sincerely believe that having a passionate ideology is legitimate grounds for twisting perception or testimony just like that.
Well, we all live in the same (objective) world- but we see things through our own eyes (subjective). It is very hard for some people to not objectify (or overextend) their own subjective experience (of whatever) out onto others.
True. Still, lots of things are hard yet clearly needed. Being accurate with our religious and political convictions is IMO one of those things.
Well, for me religion is about creativity and craft, and only about accuracy as far as the clarity and accomplishment of my goals/intent/initiation is concerned.
My only conviction (assumed stance) re politics is that a politician's main job requirement (MO) is telling you (the masses) whatever it is they think will get them elected/re'elected, and then whatever it is that they think will get them whatever it is that they want/need after they have succeeded in winning the latest election.
Reduced expectations have their upsides. I wonder if everyone can afford to have them.
Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
Depends on the interest rate.
/rimshot!
/rimshot!
Lady B
noob
As you like Iti.
These are pretty bold claims you have " None of the events in the bible happened",God does nothing,God is no where" Are you sure?