Who are you to question God? really...

[Me Myself]

Ok, But are politics the reason to call God a lil punk?

anyone with a two cents slf esteem can take a "lil punk" remark from a random guy in a internet forum. Why not God?

I just dont understand how you think any of these remarks have the power to offend God?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I'm still a big fan of Abraham.

Yeah, I can appreciate quite a few parts of his story. Kind of a shame that it's being glossed over in a thread where it can be so relevant.

 

[Lady B]

anyone with a two cents slf esteem can take a "lil punk" remark from a random guy in a internet forum. Why not God?

I just dont understand how you think any of these remarks have the power to offend God?

I will tell you why, I believe God is Holy, I would like to use scripture If I may to give you an Idea to how I define Holy.

For the rest, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is worthy of reverence and is honorable and seemly, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely and lovable, whatever is kind and winsome and gracious, if there is any virtue and excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think on and weigh and take account of these things [fix your minds on them]. Philippians 4: 8

When reading this verse do you see how Lil punk is offensive to God? Yes there were men in the Bible who talked openly with God, questioning him and speaking as a friend even. No where will you find even these men insulting God, slandering God and no where will you find a lack of respect for Him. These men who spoke openly were loved by God and loved God, I would not put the atheist in this category of men would you? Is the poster who calls him a lil punk or an evil monster depicted in the story of Abraham?

I believe God is so Holy, we cannot even look at his face ! Much less walk right up to his throne and call him out for all the atrocities we attribute him, spit in his face and walk away. Do you see that is even a possibility based on what you do know of My God? Really?

 

[Falvlun]

Re-read the OP and Post #4.

One word out of that entire OP? Re-read the rest of the OP's posts. Even post 4 is about respect and arrogance, not slander. Saying things respectfully, and reducing arrogance has been the primary point of the OP throughout this entire thread.

No, I said it's silly to bad-mouth things that you don't believe exist. The theist has a vested interest in god's existence, right? Then along comes the athiest, who asks, "Why would God murder all those people?" or "Why does God hate us so that he would do this thing?" (LIke why would God do this horrible thing to test Abraham, blah blah, meaning that God must be a horrible person.)

Now yes, it's possible that the atheist is attempting to discuss God as a character in a fictional context and questioning the motive in terms of storyline, but more often--and more likely--that's not the case at all. More often the atheist is posing. They are presenting the question as if they believe, as if God is real because the theist believes it, and as if they want to understand. (All of which are questionable, consdering they sometimes get an answer and then go ask the question again of someone else.)

Those are the people to whom I see this thread being addressed, the ones who treat God as if he was real in order to pose him in an ethical or moral dilemma that serves no other real purpose than to point out that God is a jerk. It is silly and, yes, slanderous, to pose your question as if you wonder why God is such a jerk for testing Abraham. That's the person who is being too literal.

shrug. I think those posts apply just as well. If people just want to be jerks, they are going to be jerks regardless of whether it's silly or not.

But I think that a lot of legitimate argumentation is being labeled as badmouthing; I mean, in these debates you have to put yourself within the belief's framework to argue at all; you have to make the assumption that God exists and he has characteristics xyz if you want to argue about the beliefs with the God with characteristics xyz. And there's certainly legitimate reasons for arguing against things that you yourself don't believe.

And no, I don't think the person questioning the God/Abraham story is the one being too literal. Because, you know, there are people who believe that literally happened.

 

[Falvlun]

The whole concept of slandering God is nonsensical. You can't slander God because, at the end of the day, we don't know for sure what is true about God and what isn't. You need to know the truth to be able to know what's slander.

It is possible to slander beliefs about God. Misrepresenting beliefs, intentionally, is a favorite troll passtime.

In general, that is one thing I hope Lady B gained from this thread, and soothes her concern somewhat. It's all about the beliefs, not God Himself.

 

[Willamena]

One word out of that entire OP? Re-read the rest of the OP's posts. Even post 4 is about respect and arrogance, not slander.

I respectfully disagree.

 

[Willamena]

The whole concept of slandering God is nonsensical. You can't slander God because, at the end of the day, we don't know for sure what is true about God and what isn't. You need to know the truth to be able to know what's slander.

It is possible to slander beliefs about God. Misrepresenting beliefs, intentionally, is a favorite troll passtime.

In general, that is one thing I hope Lady B gained from this thread, and soothes her concern somewhat. It's all about the beliefs, not God Himself.

I could do a simple search and, especially of threads of late, find nonsensical slandering. It's not that hard.

 

[Falvlun]

I respectfully disagree.

Well... I... um... okay.

 

[Falvlun]

I could do a simple search and, especially of threads of late, find nonsensical slandering. It's not that hard.

Slandering of God or slandering of beliefs? If the former, how do you propose that is possible?

 

[McBell]

I could do a simple search and, especially of threads of late, find nonsensical slandering. It's not that hard.

yeppers.
And if you are honest about it you will see that the theists do as much slandering as the non-theists.

What is your point?

 

[YmirGF]

I will tell you why, I believe God is Holy, I would like to use scripture If I may to give you an Idea to how I define Holy.

For the rest, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is worthy of reverence and is honorable and seemly, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely and lovable, whatever is kind and winsome and gracious, if there is any virtue and excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think on and weigh and take account of these things [fix your minds on them]. Philippians 4: 8

Thank you so much for reinforcing what I was saying about being fixated on your perception of god. Heck, you even have a piece of "scripture" to back it up. In your mind, you find this wholly reasonable. The weird part is that on the surface it sounds quite reasonable.

When reading this verse do you see how Lil punk is offensive to God?

Oddly, my vision of "god" is not easily offended. In fact, you would probably have to go rather far out of your way to manage an offense. What I do understand is how PEOPLE could be offended by it. Human animals are well known for their lack of understanding, short tempers and over-reactions. I rather doubt any being worthy of the title "god" is that small-minded that they would take offense to something some minor life form on a tiny backwater planet, in a wholly unremarkable galaxy, gliding through space, has to say. In the overall scope of things, we are simply not special enough to warrant the attention. I know, reality is tough.

Yes there were men in the Bible who talked openly with God, questioning him and speaking as a friend even. No where will you find even these men insulting God, slandering God and no where will you find a lack of respect for Him.

Um, it's a Christian "scripture", what else would you expect?

These men who spoke openly were loved by God and loved God, I would not put the atheist in this category of men would you?

Of course not, the simple fact is that human animals are not quite as ignorant of their psychology, physiology, environment and a host of other topics, as they were when these wonderful little men were babbling about the god of their dreams.

Is the poster who calls him a lil punk or an evil monster depicted in the story of Abraham?

No, but it would have added a few chuckles, you have to admit.

:biglaugh:Then God Almighty smote the infidel dog in his/her tracks, to which the assembled multitude roared, "PRAISE GOD!" I'd give that a 9.6 on the open-ended Smite Scale!:biglaugh:

I believe God is so Holy, we cannot even look at his face!

And it is beliefs such as this that will hold you back from your beloved. You are worthy. In theory, you are his creation. Stand tall and buck up.

Much less walk right up to his throne and call him out for all the atrocities we attribute him, spit in his face and walk away.

I don't recall a throne, per se.... nor was he wearing any clothing.... just sayin'' :beach:

Do you see that is even a possibility based on what you do know of My God? Really?

Actually I am still quite fond of my memories with God, even though now, to be honest, I have outgrown the visions of my youth. I no longer need a god figure in my reality. You see there is this strange thing that happens when subject/object perception evaporates... That said though, I really wouldn't want to meet your vision of god. He sounds pretty unpredictable and perhaps a bit cranky. Hmmmmm.... sort of like a human.... odd, eh?

 

[Me Myself]

I will tell you why, I believe God is Holy,

Here lies the problem. Saying that other people cannot insult a being whose existence they don´t even believe in because you believe he is ""holy"" and because of what you believe this means.

Well, I believe it is close to blasphemy or and "insult" to "hollyness" to believe that anyone holly can take offense.

That is just not holly behaviour.

For the rest, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is worthy of reverence and is honorable and seemly, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely and lovable, whatever is kind and winsome and gracious, if there is any virtue and excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think on and weigh and take account of these things [fix your minds on them]. Philippians 4: 8

When reading this verse do you see how Lil punk is offensive to God?

1- It is impossible to offend God.

2- I´ve never seen someone offending God because of that verse. God is generally offended for verses like that in which he says it is okay to stone a woman if she did not bleed the first time she had sex with her husband. Not only because I do not agree with the rule, but because if God knew that not all women bleed in the first time, then he knowingly allowed women who followed his rules to be STONED to death.

But then, there are many more horrible examples in the bible. Of course they are not offending god for that verse, but then again, when you say you are a sinner, you don´t say it because of that time you said something nice or was a good person. You are saying it because of other times you know you weren´t

Which leads me to:

Do you think I deserve hell? I understand your background makes you think everyone does but God will still save some, even when they do not deserve it. So, you believe I am worthy of eternal torture. Right?

I see it way worst than saying "lil punk" to someone to say or predicate that they are worthy of eternal hell. I mean, infinitely worst.

When reading this verse do you see how Lil punk is offensive to God? Yes there were men in the Bible who talked openly with God, questioning him and speaking as a friend even. No where will you find even these men insulting God, slandering God and no where will you find a lack of respect for Him. These men who spoke openly were loved by God and loved God, I would not put the atheist in this category of men would you?

Of course I wouldn´t, why would an atheist talk to someone s/he doesn´t believe exists? If s/he did, I wouldn´t call him/her an atheist.

I believe God is so Holy, we cannot even look at his face ! Much less walk right up to his throne and call him out for all the atrocities we attribute him, spit in his face and walk away. Do you see that is even a possibility based on what you do know of My God? Really?

If your "god" is okay with sending someone to hell eternally I would gladly do the number two in his throne. I wouldn´t expect him to be able to touch me because honestly someone with such a low judgement cannot have enough spiritual power to do anything to me.

Spitting on his face, and specially in a way others can see it, can only be called righteousness.

Why not? He tortures people eternally. That actions is infinitely beneath concentration camp treatment. I mean sure concentration camps were off, but they were at least not infinitely off.

 

[Me Myself]

I could do a simple search and, especially of threads of late, find nonsensical slandering. It's not that hard.

Me too. I don´t think there is a greater insult to God than to say he allows eternal torture.

I mean, I would prefer to be a "lil punk" than to be someone who tortures his children eternally.

 

[apophenia]

I just asked god "who am I to question ?"

"no idea" said god, "it was like this when I found me .."

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

I just asked god "who am I to question ?"

"no idea" said god, "it was like this when I found me .."

I SAW God. Do you doubt it?
Do you dare to doubt it?
I saw the Almighty Man. His hand
Was resting on a mountain, and
He looked upon the World and all about it:
I saw him plainer than you see me now,
You mustn't doubt it.

He was not satisfied;
His look was all dissatisfied.
His beard swung on a wind far out of sight
Behind the world's curve, and there was light
Most fearful from His forehead, and He sighed,
"That star went always wrong, and from the start
I was dissatisfied."

He lifted up His hand—
I say He heaved a dreadful hand
Over the spinning Earth. Then I said, "Stay,
You must not strike it, God; I'm in the way;
And I will never move from where I stand."
He said, "Dear child, I feared that you were dead,"
And stayed His hand.
- James Stephens

 

[apophenia]

Dear LegionOnomaMoi,

Thank you. That poem caused me to search James Stephens. Somehow I had missed his work, despite my love of poetry. It has been a long time since I read poetry ( by which I mean practiced contemplation, book in hand ).

I found this one, and it speaks very clearly to me ...

( I link to it, because it is about 500 characters too long to post )

The Lonely God - Poem by James Stephens

Here is a section of it, for those less inclined to read long poems ...

From - The Lonely God by James Stephens

"This was the thought in Eden as He trod --
. . . It is a lonely thing to be a God.

So long! afar through Time He bent His mind,
For the beginning, which He could not find,
Through endless centuries and backwards still
Endless forever, till His 'stonied will
Halted in circles, dizzied in the swing
Of mazy nothingness. -- His mind could bring
Not to subjection, grip or hold the theme
Whose wide horizon melted like a dream
To thinnest edges. Infinite behind
The piling centuries were trodden blind
In gulfs chaotic -- so He could not see
When He was not who always had To Be.

Not even godly fortitude can stare
Into Eternity, nor easy bear
The insolent vacuity of Time:
It is too much, the mind can never climb
Up to its meaning, for, without an end,
Without beginning, plan, or scope, or trend
To point a path, there nothing is to hold
And steady surmise: so the mind is rolled
And swayed and drowned in dull Immensity.
Eternity outfaces even Me
With its indifference, and the fruitless year
Would swing as fruitless were I never there.

And so for ever, day and night the same,
Years flying swiftly nowhere, like a game
Played random by a madman, without end
Or any reasoned object but to spend
What is unspendable -- Eternal Woe!
O Weariness of Time that fast or slow
Goes never further, never has in view
An ending to the thing it seeks to do,
And so does nothing: merely ebb and flow,
From nowhere into nowhere, touching so
The shores of many stars and passing on,
Careless of what may come or what has gone."

 

[chinu]

I have james bean here.

An enormous cosmos is out there;
many voices trying to convince us
of the merits of their path,
and the merits of their destination.
Many yogas.
Many meditations.
Many breaths.
Many lives.
Many lights in
dark matter skies
below
yet more dark skies.
Many caught in dreams
of separation.
Many asleep
who have forgotten
who they were
before time began,
who they still are,
Truth be told.
A dis-incarnate channeled spirit
is not a worthy guide,
having never been in the human form,
and may not even have much love for humanity.
Biological infestation are we?
A dis-incarnate spirit
is impossible to know.
One has only words to go by.
Many avatars attempt to
vacuum up souls with words,
taking them to various realms of
astral,
causal,
mental or
etheric.
Misdirected perception
is another name for the work of
an Archon,
a Demiurge,
a Kal Niranjan,
a Collector of the energy of souls.
There's religion
for every chakra,
and a religion
for every realm
of creation.
Materialists proclaim,
"This is all there is."
An astral guide
will never guide
one
beyond
the astral.
Astrals take souls to that realm saying,
"You've made it."
Worshippers of "Universal Mind"
believe
they have created
the highest reality.
But it is no longer a prison
when we are free to leave.
Moving beyond the soul-neglected state
of God-denial and all the spiritual poverty thereof,
The Atman Project....
With a living teacher-who has-a-body
(not a holy book),
one has the potential opportunity
to evaluate,
if they are genuine
or fraud;
a monster,
or the em-body-ment of
Love
and
Compassion
from Above,
a Light appearing to us
in the darkness of contemplation.
Enoch had a body.
Buddha had a body.
Christ had a body.
Valentinus had a body.
Shams had a body.
Rumi had a body.
Hafiz had a body.
Nanak had a body.
Kabir had a body.
Dharam Das had a body.
Gobind Singh had a body.
Paltu had a body.
Dariya had a body.
Tulsi had a body.
Shiv Dayal had a body.
Living Ones,
not held captive
by centuries long gone by,
also have bodies
today,
here,
now,
in the living
present.
Somewhere close by
through perhaps
Unseen,
Unknown,
there is path about you,
about me -
the Path of the Soul -
"The Pearl,"
and the Lord of All Souls -
The Ocean of Love.
One asleep awakens nobody.
Master-souls
incarnate
into the human form,
not because of
karmic debt and attachment,
but out of Compassion,
to summon us
to awakening.
They ask,
"Do you remember?"
They show us
a passage by which we may
find our way back,
riding the Holy Stream of Light-Sound,
the Audible Life-stream,
the Tao or Logos that was with us
"in the beginning,"
before time came to be.
As Kabir says,
"You have slept
for millions of years.
This morning,
will you not wake"?
Astral travelers stay
astrally confined.
Soul travelers
passing through
inner regions,
ascend through
a long tunnel,
with the Grace of
the Audible Light Stream,
the Positive Power.
Beyond
the material plane,
beyond
the astral,
beyond
the causal akashic,
beyond
the mental plane,
is the Timeless Realm.
"God-beyond-god."
This is the Place
of Life,
the Point of Origin.
We never left Home,
only our attention.
We still are.
Our true identity
remains soul.
This is the Path of Remembrance.
When the drop returns to
Oneness with The Ocean,
all form will disappear into Formlessness.
We become
what we focus
our soul-attention upon.
If we should happen to
dwell upon
The Absolute -James bean

 

[Halcyon]

Who are you to question God? really...

I am that which has gazed unto the depths of voidness, and whom voidness has engulfed.
I am that which unfurled the veil and was destroyed by the silent beyond.
I am the coreless fruit, the empty observer, the death of being.
I am that which deities fear. The obliteration of self.





Also, I have an army of nuclear powered, self guided, genetically enhanced --->: hamster :

 

[apophenia]

The lunatics have taken over the asylum !

This is the end of the beginning !

 

[YmirGF]

The lunatics have taken over the asylum !

This is the end of the beginning !

My'um apocalypse? :run: