Who Believe the Earth is 6000 Years Old???

[gnostic]

Mostly to FFH.

Personally, I don't think the earth is 13000 years old. It's still far too young.

Even worse is this notion that 1 day equate with 1,000 years, thus 7 days equal 7000 years. This is no better than God creating everything in 6 days.

Beside, if God was created on the 6th days, would the 7th day be 6000 years and 1 extra day for the day of rest? Thus not 13000 years, but 12000 years.

If you really belief that God created on the 6th day (6000 years), then Adam and Eve would be 1000 years old before God announced the Sabbath day. Which is 70 years after Adam's death or 56 years before Noah's birth.

Is that what you are trying to tell us, FFH? That the Day of Sabbath 70 years after Adam's death?

Whether it be 13000 years or 12000, doesn't make any difference because there are evidences that homo sapien man existed even before 13,000 years. Try 400,000 years.

And that there are many fossils of creatures that are older than hundrerds of million years ago. Dinosaurs themselves had mostly died out by 65 million years ago. The earth itself is several billions years old.

How do you discount that the sun is 27,000 light-years away from Milky Way's centre? If the earth is really either less than 6000 or 13,000 years old, then the light from centre should not have us for another 21,000 or 14,000 years from now, even with our most powerful telescope. And there are other more distant stars and galaxies.

The notion that God created the universe in either 6000 or 13000 years ago, and yet there are stars so distance, not only defy the laws of physics or cosmic nature, it is also make the Bible totally illogical.

 

[SoyLeche]

Which is 70 years after Adam's death or 56 years before Noah's birth.

For the record, I don't think the "days" of Adam are being counted from his creation, but from his fall. I could be wrong on that, but that's how I see it.

Other than that, we don't have much to argue about

 

[xstian sista]

I believe, only by studying the Word of God you would come to that knowledge.
Scientist will always be against it, thats what they get paid for!
With God all things is possible, man could never understand the mind of God, lets not try so hard, you may come up with some other mumbo jumbo.
Anyway History tells us, by giving us the geneology, From the creation of this world to Noah was 2,000years, From Noah to Jesus was another 2,000yrs, and from Jesus to us is another 2,000YEARS. Whatever others come up with does not make sense to me.

 

[A. Leaf]

How old is the earth? Ask a Geologist
How old are we? Ask an Astrophysicist.

 

[SoyLeche]

The notion that God created the universe in either 6000 or 13000 years ago, and yet there are stars so distance, not only defy the laws of physics or cosmic nature, it is also make the Bible totally illogical.

You are also forgetting - if God can create the Earth in 6000 years, why can't he place the light from the stars in their trajectory so that it gets to Earth when he wants it to?

I don't personally believe that - I believe the Universe is, in fact, billions of years old, but the Bible isn't illogical if one of your premisses is that there is an all powerful God in control.

 

[fantome profane]

You are also forgetting - if God can create the Earth in 6000 years, why can't he place the light from the stars in their trajectory so that it gets to Earth when he wants it to?

I don't personally believe that - I believe the Universe is, in fact, billions of years old, but the Bible isn't illogical if one of your premisses is that there is an all powerful God in control.

It is very true that if an omnipotent deity wished to make a 6000 year old universe appear to be much older she would have no difficulty doing so. You have to realize it is not just light we are talking about here, we are talking about actual astronomic events, moving galaxies, supernovas etc. We can actually witness astronomical events that occurred hundreds of thousands of years ago. But if the YECs are correct, then these events never happened. And if that is the case then “God” is putting on one very impressive puppet show out there.

Think this though. If there is a “God” that is capable and willing to place light in a specific trajectory so that it gets to earth when he wants it to, and even makes it look like there was an active universe out there when there was really nothing, how do we actually know that there is anything out there now? It could be nothing more that an all powerful “God” placing light and other kinds of EM emissions in such a way as to make it look like there is something there. It could be that there are no other stars, no other galaxies, nothing at all. It could all just be a universal hoax perpetrated by a deceptive deity. It is possible. But why? And why would anyone believe it?

 

[Quoth The Raven]

I believe, only by studying the Word of God you would come to that knowledge.
Scientist will always be against it, thats what they get paid for!
With God all things is possible, man could never understand the mind of God, lets not try so hard, you may come up with some other mumbo jumbo.
Anyway History tells us, by giving us the geneology, From the creation of this world to Noah was 2,000years, From Noah to Jesus was another 2,000yrs, and from Jesus to us is another 2,000YEARS. Whatever others come up with does not make sense to me.

Yes, quite correct, scientists are paid specifically to refute the word of god. Those scientists with faith must have to give themselves a proper beating of a morning just to come to terms with the contradictions of their existence.
The bible = religious book, not history. If nothing else makes sense to you, it's because you choose not to entertain the idea that it makes sense, not because it actually doesn't. Because it makes a damn sight more sense than 'a large and oftentimes contradictory book apparently inspired by an unchangeing bloke that undergoes some pretty sharp personality changes between parts 1 and 2, says so.'
By that criteria, the man in black really did flee across the desert, and the gunslinger most assuredly followed.

 

[gnostic]

For the record, I don't think the "days" of Adam are being counted from his creation, but from his fall. I could be wrong on that, but that's how I see it.

My problem is some of FFH's view that 1 day equals 1000 years, thus 7000 years for the seven day creation, which in total the age of earth is 13000 years.

If we are to follow through FFH's scenario, then the "Day of Rest" (ie Sabbath or the 7th day of creation) doesn't happened until after Adam's death and Enoch's ascension to heaven. Don't you find this argument faulty?

 

[SoyLeche]

My problem is some of FFH's view that 1 day equals 1000 years, thus 7000 years for the seven day creation, which in total the age of earth is 13000 years.

If we are to follow through FFH's scenario, then the "Day of Rest" (ie Sabbath or the 7th day of creation) doesn't happened until after Adam's death and Enoch's ascension to heaven. Don't you find this argument faulty?

No, if Adam lived in the garden for a thousand years before the fall, then the day of started at the time of the fall. If he lived there longer, it would have happened before the fall. I just don't think that the 900 something years that it says Adam lived counts the time before the Fall. That's all I'm saying.

I don't buy the 1 day of creation = 1000 years anyway.

 

[Ody]

Here we are happily talking about the solar system being 4.5 billion years old, but how do we KNOW that the solar system is this old? What is the scientific evidence? The main evidence comes from radioactivity. A few elements are unstable and are likely to "decay" - that is, emit a particle and become a different element. For example, an isotope of potassium (potassium-40) decays to an isotope of argon (argon-40) with a half-life of 1.3 billion years. This means that 1 kilogram of pure potassium-40 would, over 1.3 billion years, turn into 1/2 a kilogram of argon-40 and 1/2 kilogram of remaining potassium-40. Then, another 1.3 billion years later, the 1/2 kilogram of potassium-40 reduces to 1/4 kilogram and another 1/4 kilogram of argon-40. Therefore, we can find out the age of a lump of rock by measuring the ratio of potassium-40 to argon-40 - see figure 8.17.

The oldest rocks on Earth are about 3.9 billions years old. There are not very many of such old rocks around since the surface of the Earth has been thoroughly resurfaced. The oldest lunar rocks are about 4.4 billion years old. The oldest rocks ever encountered are meteorites, some of which are as old as 4.6 billion years. These meteorite rocks are thought to have formed during the early condensation of the solar nebula. The planets formed about 0.1 billion (100 million) years later. So, the age of the Earth is probably close to about 4.5 billion years

- A Teacher at my school

 

[gnostic]

I don't buy the 1 day of creation = 1000 years anyway.

Yes, well my question and response was mostly directed at FFH, since he is the one advocating the 1 day=1 thousand years or the 13,000 years creation.

But since you have been responding my post, I thought it was best to reply to you.

His posts were based on assumption and interpretations.

No, if Adam lived in the garden for a thousand years before the fall, then the day of started at the time of the fall. If he lived there longer, it would have happened before the fall. I just don't think that the 900 something years that it says Adam lived counts the time before the Fall. That's all I'm saying.

There is problem with this scenario too. The Bible doesn't indicate that a thousand years before the fall.

Genesis 1 clearly states that 1 day passed for each day of creation, which is one morning and one night. There is no 1000 years between the interval of each day.

Genesis 2 says it created man (Adam) in Eden (the Garden is completely ignored in Genesis 1), and then then the following day is Sabbath. Woman (Eve) was created after Sabbath.

This, however, contradict Genesis 1, which says that man and woman was created on the same day, ie the 6th day.

There is no clear indication of how many days have passed between Adam-Eve-Sabbath and their Fall, but no where did indicate a thousand year had passed. It doesn't even say that 1 year had passed between Creation of Adam and his expulsion from the Garden.

Until it otherwise say so, we can only rely on what is written.

 

[SoyLeche]

Until it otherwise say so, we can only rely on what is written.

But you aren't relying on what is written. You are relying on what isn't written. If it doesn't give a time frame, it doesn't give a time frame.

 

[gnostic]

But you aren't relying on what is written. You are relying on what isn't written. If it doesn't give a time frame, it doesn't give a time frame.

Actually what I have relied on is what is written. I didn't jump to on what has not been added. I may have taken what it is written in the Genesis, perhaps literally, but that's because it doesn't provide anything else.

You are basically jumping to conclusion that years or thousand of years has passed between Adam's creation and his Fall.

The only mean of more time had passed is when seasons are mentioned to divide the year. I don't remember what day that was, but it doesn't mention how many days or years had passed, except just one day.

Lot of parts in Genesis' Creation can be opened to interpretations, but you can only do so to certain extent.

Show me lines or passage that 1000 years...or even 1 year for that matter...had passed in any part of Genesis 1, 2 or 3, and only then would I believe or agree with yours or FFH's assumption that there was long interval between the time Adam was created to the time he ate the fruit.

 

[Katzpur]

Scientist will always be against it, thats what they get paid for!

Whatever would make you say something like that?

 

[UnTheist]

Scientist will always be against it, thats what they get paid for!

Are you serious?

 

[s2a]

Let's get this strait[sic] -

You wasted your time reading 7 pages of a thread that for all intents and purposes is dead, and then you resurrect it to point out that there is nothing of worth in it. Wouldn't it have been better for all involved to just let it stay dead???

Nope.

I think it relevant to note that whenever the questions get too challenging or pressing, FFH just moves on to simpler discussions/debates. I note that FFH has managed 54 postings in just the last 48 hours (to be exact as of 12:31am EST)...so it's not as if FFH has been absent, or otherwise engaged.

This behavior evinces the strategy of one who seeks to proseltyze, but avoid/deflect any challenges to faith-based claims or supportive debate.

That's OK...but credibility in such matters is earned...not systematically due...

 

[FFH]

Nope.

I think it relevant to note that whenever the questions get too challenging or pressing, FFH just moves on to simpler discussions/debates. I note that FFH has managed 54 postings in just the last 48 hours (to be exact as of 12:31am EST)...so it's not as if FFH has been absent, or otherwise engaged.

This behavior evinces the strategy of one who seeks to proseltyze, but avoid/deflect any challenges to faith-based claims or supportive debate.

That's OK...but credibility in such matters is earned...not systematically due...

Just saw this thread was resurrected now....

Gnostic brought up some good points, which I will address, but would it make any difference ???

 

[s2a]

Just saw this thread was resurrected now....

Gnostic brought up some good points, which I will address, but would it make any difference ???

I dunno.

{Pssst. This thread was "ressurected" nearly three days ago...after a short 48 hour respite. I dare say that the entrenched forum "bot" with it's automated thread subscription service would have made this plainly evident to you...]

Can you offer any compelling and distinctly pointed replies that would "make a difference" beyond servicing some validation of your own personal beliefs?

 

[FFH]

Gnostic, you brought up some good points....

First of all Genesis 1-13 is missing quite a few pages in the King James. Joseph Smith had to restore about 13 pages of it and is recorded here; Book of Moses

Creation starts from Moses 2

In Moses 2 or Genesis 1 (King James) Adam was created on the 6th day or during the 6th millenium of creation.

2 Peter 3: 8

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one dayis with the Lord as a thousand years, anda thousand years as one day.

So we are at the 6th millenium so far and the day/6th millenium has ended.

So we go to the next chapter

Moses 3 or Genesis 2 in the King James.

Eve is created on the 7th day and then in the next chapter Adam and Eve fall. Moses 4

The pattern is clear.

6 days/6,000 years of labor and 1 day of rest/1,000 years, when Eve was created and ate the forbidden fruit with Adam and they subsequently became subject to death.

From the fall of Adam and Eve there has been 6,000 years and we are in the 7th millennium and we will shortly rest, when Christ returns to set up his kingdom....

www.Chabad.org gives us some clues as to what year we are in Biblically....

 

[FFH]

I dunno.

{Pssst. This thread was "ressurected" nearly three days ago...after a short 48 hour respite. I dare say that the entrenched forum "bot" with it's automated thread subscription service would have made this plainly evident to you...]

Sorry, didn't see it until now...

Can you offer any compelling and distinctly pointed replies that would "make a difference" beyond servicing some validation of your own personal beliefs?

Any suggestions ???