Who Believe the Earth is 6000 Years Old???

[xexon]

Einstein was close to a mystical experience when he died in 1955.

It is the essence of his unified field theory.


x

 

[s2a]

Einstein was close to a mystical experience when he died in 1955.

It is the essence of his unified field theory.


x

1) Define a "mystical experience".
2) Cite directly personal accountings (ie, Einstein in his own words) that meet that definition.
3) Einstein's "unified field theory" was a personal rationalization borne of his resitence to accept the presented notions of sub-atomic physics. Being stubborn is not especially mystical, though it is a common human experience.

 

[FFH]

You should really at least look at the book that Katz has suggested before making any judgements about it. First of all, she wasn't talking about the Apostle, she was talking about his father. I doubt any of his sons (who would be brothers of the Apostle) are of the right age to have been in the mission at the same time as you.

Second of all, I don't recall him ever offering a theory about the age of the Earth in the book.

Yeah, you're right it was his father. I just looked back and saw that she had written the late Henry Eyring (apostles father) in parenthasis. That's what I get for reading too fast. Just saw Henry Eyring and assumed she was talking about the apostle whom I admire very much. Whew, I'm glad he doesn't possibly think the world is a billion years old...I almost started doubting he was a true apostle...just kidding ...and you also said his father didn't really come right out and say that either...

Seriously I really like Henry Eyring the apostle a lot and his son found me a bike when I was a two week greenie in Japan and was discouraged because I didn't have a bike because I couldn't afford one and he found a bike for me for 60 bucks, practically brand new and I didn't even ask him to look for one or suggest I needed one he just intuitively and instinctively looked for one and found one for me, even in the color and style I wanted...exactly... It was weird...The guy was waaayyyyy in tune with the spirit and extremely cool person to be around...tall 6' 5" or so red head...

Here's another website you might enjoy FFH: http://www.fixedearth.com/

If we're going to throw science out the window, might as well go the whole way

Who's throwing science out the window? That link sure is...

DId you not see my link? Creation Evidence

 

[FFH]

Either concede fault and error of judgment acknowleging that you can not provide ANY credible substantiation for the claim that Einstein was inspired IN ANY WAY by Torah in his proposed Relativity Theoreom, or present direct and and referenced supprt of same.

Been searching for a direct quote from Einsiein and can't find one of course..

Just going by what Yacov Rambsel claims, which is that Einstein studied the Torah and found that it contained the formula E=mc2 and other mysteries of the universe....

Sorry I can't find a direct link. Really hoped I could at least find a quote from Einstein stating that he did study the Torah and found inspiration for many of his thories and formulas there....

Again Yacov claims that the mysteries of the universe are encoded in the Torah, and that Einstein knew this by siudying the Torah himself, as I have explained earlier...

I'm sure the age of the earth is encoded in there too....but I realize you don't believe in that stuff and even most Christians would have an extremely hard time even accepting that the Torah might be encoded with the mysteries of the universe and other various facts....don't worry I won't start posting any more Bible matrices/codes...

Sorry did the best I could on that topic. If I find any evidence to support these claims I will post them on a new thread entitled Einstein and his study of the Torah or something like that. I will make it obvious and easy to see or find with a simple search...

Develoment of synthesized petroleum by the Nazi's is not a matter of debate...it's a matter of fact. Your rebuttal is irrelevant.

Not debating that, just saying that there really isn't a biofuel that we can just start putting in our older cars because it just doesn't work, believe me I've tried and the most I can get away with is about a half and half gas to ethanol mix and that's risking melting some plastic and other rubber parts....but otherwise my motorcycle runs like a dream with this ratio, but I don't risk using it anymore for fear of what damage it might do...

Tried straight ethanol and it just doesn't run right...

Did the Germans invent a biofuel that would run in any car without melting rubber and plastic parts and without any modifications to the vehicle? I doubt it or we would all be using this fuel today....

I think Einstein was working on a formula that would work just like gasoline without the side affects of other biofuels like ethanol and without modifying the vehicle...

Ethanol will run in flex fuel vehicles, which most newer cars are, by automatically adjusting for ethanol, if the owner decides to us it, but few realize this....but it's still pretty corrosive and could wear out parts faster than gas would...

 

[SoyLeche]

Yeah, you're right it was his father. I just looked back and saw that she had written the late Henry Eyring (apostles father) in parenthasis. That's what I get for reading too fast. Just saw Henry Eyring and assumed she was talking about the apostle whom I admire very much. Whew, I'm glad he doesn't possibly think the world is a billion years old...I almost started doubting he was a true apostle...just kidding ...and you also said his father didn't really come right out and say that either...

That's why the Apostle is known as Henry B. Eyring, so that the ambiguity isn't there (coincidentally, my Sister-in-law has gone on a couple of dates with Henry B. Eyring's grandson, the 5th Henry in the line. They all have different middle names though, so no Jr, III, etc.). Also, I don't know Henry B. Eyring's position on the age of the Earth. I would assume he accepts that the Earth is billions of years old. He is intelligent, after all

 

[SoyLeche]

Good quote from Henry Eyring:

In my judgment, anyone who denies the orderly deposition of sediments with their built-in radioactive clocks places himself in a scientifically untenable position. Actually, the antiquity of the earth was no problem for two of our greatest Latter-day Saint leaders and scientists, John A. Widtsoe and James E. Talmage. However, there are vast differences in the training and background of members of the Church. Therefore, I am completely content that there is room in the Church for people who think that the periods of creation were twenty-four hours, one thousand years, or millions of years. I think it is fine to discuss these questions and for each individual to try to convert others to what he thinks is right. It is only fair to warn parents and teachers that a young person is going to face a very substantial body of scientific evidence supporting the earth's age as millions of years, and that a young person might "throw the baby out with the bath" unless allowed to seek the truth, from whatever source, without prejudice.

 

[SoyLeche]

DId you not see my link? Creation Evidence

I've got to say, the question of the age of the Earth really doesn't interest me. It has no bearing whatsoever on what is important.

Do I think it is possible that the Earth is merely a few thousand years old? Yes - it is possible. Do I think it is the most likely scenario? No, I do not. The overwhelming evidence points to billions of years, and I don't see that being at all inconsistent with revealed truth.

 

[FFH]

That's why the Apostle is known as Henry B. Eyring, so that the ambiguity isn't there (coincidentally, my Sister-in-law has gone on a couple of dates with Henry B. Eyring's grandson, the 5th Henry in the line. They all have different middle names though, so no Jr, III, etc.). Also, I don't know Henry B. Eyring's position on the age of the Earth. I would assume he accepts that the Earth is billions of years old. He is intelligent, after all

It's possible to be intelligent but not spiritual. In other words I'm too smart and I don't need God's help.

It's also possible to be spiritual but not intelligent. In other words I'm a fool and I need God's help. Henry B. Eyring's son was just such an individual and was teased because he was considered "slow," but had an overwhelming sense of things pertaining to the spirit. It was undeniable to me... He was in tune with what God wanted him to do or the pure intelligence of God... He was just "foolish" enough to listen to the spirit of God and not man....

Do we listen to man's thoughts or God's thoughts on any given matter....

God is the source of all intelligence, we are only the receptacles of that wisdom and knowledge...

I listen to men and then listen to the spirit of God in order to confirm or reject what men may have to say on any matter...

The earth is young and not old or so the spirit dictates to my mind and heart after carefully weighing all the various scientific theories and evidences...

I use the same process for determining the theories of evolution.... Too many missing limks/loopholes in that theory that it becomes obvious to the intellectally and spiritually intelligent among us...

Carefully weigh the evidences of a young earth and you will find no loopholes...

 

[s2a]

Hi FFH,

You said:

Been searching for a direct quote from Einsiein and can't find one of course..

Which should cause you pause to reconsider the validity of the claim as presented by Yacov Rambsel...

Just going by what Yacov Rambsel claims, which is that Einstein studied the Torah and found that it contained the formula E=mc2 and other mysteries of the universe....

Could it be that Rambsel's claim is unfounded, and a contrivance of his own imagination? If so, do you wish to continue to espouse and support such a claim as if it were plausible fact?

Sorry I can't find a direct link.

OK. Howzabout an indirect link then? ;-)

Really hoped I could at least find a quote from Einstein stating that he did study the Torah and found inspiration for many of his thories and formulas there....

You could argue that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"...but you might also want to consider the possibility that no such evidence exits; and maybe exert just a little bit of skepticism regarding the claims of the esteemed Yacov Rambsel.

Again Yacov claims that the mysteries of the universe are encoded in the Torah, and that Einstein knew this by siudying the Torah himself, as I have explained earlier...

I got that.

Subbmitted again: Yacov's claims...not Einstein's.

I'm sure the age of the earth is encoded in there too....but I realize you don't believe in that stuff and even most Christians would have an extremely hard time even accepting that the Torah might be encoded with the mysteries of the universe and other various facts....don't worry I won't start posting any more Bible matrices/codes...

I'm a skeptic. That's all.

The Torah may very well outline what the final episode of "Lost" will reveal, for all I know (tho' I retain my doubts...despite whatever hopes I may keep that it might be so).

As a testament of faith, the Torah has proved itself well enough to own it's intended purposes.

As an encrypted source book of (as yet undeciphered) revelations of the "mysteries of the universe and other various facts", let's just say that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.

Claims are easy.

Production of evidential proof takes effort, time, experimentation...

Sorry did the best I could on that topic. If I find any evidence to support these claims I will post them on a new thread entitled Einstein and his study of the Torah or something like that. I will make it obvious and easy to see or find with a simple search...

Fair enough. Good luck with that...

I said earlier:
Develoment of synthesized petroleum by the Nazi's is not a matter of debate...it's a matter of fact. Your rebuttal is irrelevant.

Not debating that, just saying that there really isn't a biofuel that we can just start putting in our older cars because it just doesn't work...

Did the Germans invent a biofuel that would run in any car without melting rubber and plastic parts and without any modifications to the vehicle? I doubt it or we would all be using this fuel today....

If you're interested in what the Nazis were able to produce (essentialy, a synthetic diesel fuel--and diesel engines are "modified" [engineered] differently from gasoline engines), and the history/politics/business that intervened in further pursuit of that technology, you could start here, compliments of the US Dept. of Energy:

The Early Days of Coal Research

I think Einstein was working on a formula that would work just like gasoline without the side affects of other biofuels like ethanol and without modifying the vehicle...

Even if he was (and I know of NO valid support of such a claim), he [Einstein] was most certainly NOT instrumental in Nazi/German synthetic fuel development (he really was focused upon ideas of a much larger scope...).

But again, you are most invited to demonstrate otherwise...

 

[FFH]

OK. Howzabout an indirect link then? ;-)

Can't even do that because It's in Yacov's book and can't find a free link to his book.. If there is a way to link up to books on the net for free, like one can easily do with music, then that would really open up things for me to provide links to various claims...

Looking for a book "shareware" program, just like the music "shareware" programs so I can provide an indirect link to this claim...

In the meantime here is a thread investigating Einsteins faith:

Did Einstein believe in God?

 

[SoyLeche]

Can't even do that because It's in Yacov's book and can't find a free link to his book.. If there is a way to link up to books on the net for free, like one can easily do with music, then that would really open up things for me to provide links to various claims...

Looking for a book "shareware" program, just like the music "shareware" programs so I can provide an indirect link to this claim...

In the meantime here is a thread investigating Einsteins faith:

Did Einstein believe in God?

Try books.google.com if you haven't yet. They have lots of full books there.

 

[FFH]

Try books.google.com if you haven't yet. They have lots of full books there.

Okay, thanks a lot.

 

[s2a]

Can't even do that because It's in Yacov's book and can't find a free link to his book.. If there is a way to link up to books on the net for free, like one can easily do with music, then that would really open up things for me to provide links to various claims...

I didn't request a link to a "free book" (and you know it).

Looking for a book "shareware" program, just like the music "shareware" programs so I can provide an indirect link to this claim...

No need. I found a used copy available for $0.01[!] on amazon.com (a direct link, free[!] for you to follow) and subsequently ordered a copy for myself to read. I think I can invest a penny on that, which is a penny more than you were evidently willing to spend in effort to either find/provide such a link. ;-)

What is available for "free" in viewing selected contents of his book, can be found here:
The Genesis Factor: The Amazing Mysteries of the Bible Codes

Just so you know, when Rambsel opens his book (Chapter One; pg. 23; second paragraph) with the thought...

"The divine design of the Word of God is prophetically, historically, and textually inerrant. In other words, it is without error."
[emphasis his]

...he's not going to win over skeptics of any kind, or many people of faith either.

If that's Rambsel's foundational premise for all of his other "insightful" conclusions (including his take on whatever he believes Einstein "really believed"), it's no wonder to me that he would propose or rationalize virtually any claim that he can find or manufacture to suit a foregone (and from his perspective, an unfalsifiable) conclusion. His is not an inquiry or proposal that would suit any standards of intellectual integrity or objective critical scrutiny.
I said before, and I'll submit again that Rambsel's efforts may present a fine testament of personal religious faith...but no validity in prospectively estimable facts.

In the meantime here is a thread investigating Einsteins faith: Did Einstein believe in God?

Ummm...OK. Is referencing a thread that was merged into this very same one (containing posted contributions by myself and yourself alike) supposed to provide some confusing circular argumentation as support?

Bunk.
Was.
Is.
Remains so...

 

[Anti-World]

I got to page 7 and had to stop.

 

[SoyLeche]

I got to page 7 and had to stop.

Let's get this strait -

You wasted your time reading 7 pages of a thread that for all intents and purposes is dead, and then you resurrect it to point out that there is nothing of worth in it. Wouldn't it have been better for all involved to just let it stay dead???

 

[love]

"In the beginning". I think we can all agree that earth had a beginning. On the sixth "day" God created man. I think we can all agree that man began to measure a "day" by the revolution of the earth in relation to the sun which was not in the begining. Man began to measure years by the seasons which God gave us for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and for years. But, I ask is a day for God 24 hours or a year 12 months? We have no relative data in our finite comprehension of time to know what a day is for God. I suggest that everyone read the first chapter of Genisis. It can be done in minutes. Ask youself if you were the Creator and were revealing Yourself to man, who did not even know that the earth was round and revolved around the sun, how you could have made it clearer.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

*sigh*

I have a new plan to save our nation's taxpayers Millions (if not Billions!) of dollars. Let's eradicate all departments and disciplines of science from both our primary and collegiate institutions of education and enlightenment!

The Bible (as source) is all we ever need to know to understand thermodynamics, radioactive decay, silicon chips, or gravity.

I wonder when God invented MRI's, or the half-life of cesium clocks that permit GPS technology to attain such pin-point accuracy.

Einstein was a quack!
Hawking is a quark!

Archeologists, geologists, biologists, chemists, cosmologists, mathemeticians, physicists...all are deluded liars in a grand conspiracy to turn us away from God!

"Light-years" are a fantasy!
Global climate change is a hoax!
Fossils are God's practical joke upon a gullible and non-inquisitive species!

Galileo IS a witch!

BURN HIM!

Oops...my cell phone is ringing...it might be God roaming on another carrier...and who needs those added charges?

THANK YOU BROTHA..!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I'm fully aware of what I said and I said this on purpose for....

....the Bible needs no affirmations, from any man, concerning it's accuracy, as long as it's translated correctly, that is unless you doubt the historical accuracy of the Bible...

There's the problem.....

Where are the original scrolls of the scriptures and how do you determine who is trustworthy to translate it coreectly?

If you could determine that it wasn't being translated correctly then you would have no need of the translator. Surely you would know how to do it accurately yourself.

You have to book of men, written by men, translated by men, and re-translated by men. So far you are basically admitting that the supposed book of authority that needs no affirmation is fallable...because of it not being properly translated.

Here's a question. How do you know (NOW) that you are reading an accurate translation of those scriptures?????

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Okay fine, accurate according to Jewish scholars...

WWW.CHABAD.ORG

The Bible needs no affirmations, for those who accept it by faith, as long as it is translated correctly....

Joseph Smith has corrected these mistranslations which I have already gone over...

The Bible is accurate according to historical accounts recorded by Josephus and the like.

Satisfied now....

The Bible for the most part must be accepted by faith, although we have archeological evidences and secular historical records which affirm certain events in the Bible.

I really thought we were all way beyond that type of basic discussion, but I guess not.....

So i'm guessing he was learnt in Aramaic, classical hebrew, latin, greek and arabic???????

I don't think so.....

He actually had the original scriptures written on their original scrolls and translated the scriptures from that. He even got his hands on all of the scrolls the Nicean Concil did not include when making the bible..........????

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Makes no difference who or what is debunked, the truth still stands and will be rejected by most and accepted by only a few..

I can only point people in the right direction, to the truth that is right in front of them, so they can at least have a chance at obtaining the right infornation.

This is your assumption..... because you say it's so doesn't make it so.....