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Who created all things: God or the Son?

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
If you truly want to know how to achieve salvation, it's written in the Bible. Here is a short story for you to read...

"About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the rest of the prisoners were listening to them. Suddenly a great earthquake occurred, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken. Immediately all the doors flew open, and the bonds of all the prisoners came loose. When the jailer woke up and saw the doors of the prison standing open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, because he assumed the prisoners had escaped. But Paul called out loudly, “Do not harm yourself,[da] for we are all here!” Calling for lights, the jailer rushed in and fell down trembling at the feet of Paul and Silas. Then he brought them outside and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.” " Acts 16:25-31

Thats a nice story Jimb - but .. which God is speaking here ? we are talking about the commands from God .. not stories from a man never met our Lord .. nor heard "The Word" from the lips of our Lord and in fact this passage is not even pretending to speak for God .. sans maybe the God of Paul .. that Sprite he met .. that nobody heard in one story but they did hear in another ..

all that aside - all this passage has done is directed us to Jesus .. Belief in "The Word" is the path to salvation .. and thus you have answered with a question and a riddle. defection of course as predicted .. but at least an interesting deflection.

So "The Word" -- what words do we need to belief to get salvation friend ? and who is the God doing the saving here ? Jesus says "Only the one who does the will of the Father" thats the path to salvation.

Who is "The Father" - and what is his will ? what are these commands we must follow to earn salvation friend .. why you hiding the Truth under a blanket . Do you not know the name of the God of Jesus ? -- "The Father " -- do you not know "The will of the Father" ? and if you do .. why are you trying so hard to hide this truth... ?

I look forward to it. :D

Good luck trying to get a straight answer. ;)

HIt that nail on the head .. but it the arrow at least pointed in a direction towards the answer .. my no means straight .. but we managed to find out what God .. and what salvation formulation is being referred to. .. the trouble now is that I don't think our friend knows the name of the God of Jesus.. and so probably does not know "The Will of the Father" . One kind of needs to know the name in this case .. to know what this God's will is.
 

jimb

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Thats a nice story Jimb - but .. which God is speaking here ? we are talking about the commands from God .. not stories from a man never met our Lord .. nor heard "The Word" from the lips of our Lord and in fact this passage is not even pretending to speak for God .. sans maybe the God of Paul .. that Sprite he met .. that nobody heard in one story but they did hear in another ..

all that aside - all this passage has done is directed us to Jesus .. Belief in "The Word" is the path to salvation .. and thus you have answered with a question and a riddle. defection of course as predicted .. but at least an interesting deflection.

So "The Word" -- what words do we need to belief to get salvation friend ? and who is the God doing the saving here ? Jesus says "Only the one who does the will of the Father" thats the path to salvation.

Who is "The Father" - and what is his will ? what are these commands we must follow to earn salvation friend .. why you hiding the Truth under a blanket . Do you not know the name of the God of Jesus ? -- "The Father " -- do you not know "The will of the Father" ? and if you do .. why are you trying so hard to hide this truth... ?



HIt that nail on the head .. but it the arrow at least pointed in a direction towards the answer .. my no means straight .. but we managed to find out what God .. and what salvation formulation is being referred to. .. the trouble now is that I don't think our friend knows the name of the God of Jesus.. and so probably does not know "The Will of the Father" . One kind of needs to know the name in this case .. to know what this God's will is.

Which God is speaking here??? There is only one God.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Which God is speaking here??? There is only one God.

There is no God speaking in your quote from Acts ? Paul is the speaker who directs us to Jesus for salvation .. directing us to the word of God.. for salvation. .. and the God of Jesus .. who's name you do not know .. but you said that you knew "The will of the Father" only those that do his will get into heaven .. that is where we are trying to get and so very happy for you to tell is the name of this wonderfull God of Jesus .. and what he commands us to do .. "The Will of the Father" ..

Now .. "One God" ?? -- What are you talking about .. I realize you believe in one God .. a God whose name you do not know .. and whose teachings on salvation you are not familiar .. but, there are many different Gods and Godesses in the Bible .. one of the most well known .. next to YHWH's wife Asherah .. Queen of Heaven they tell us .. is our Good friend Ha Satan - tester of souls .. tester of Jesus .. as he went through the ritual trial after which his God-spark was activated an immaculate conception of sorts .. but one having nothing to do with Mary. but this is first page of the New Testament stuff .. how is it you are not aware that "Ha Satan" is a God ? .. not just any God .. one with some heavy duty powers .. and .. depicted as Chief God on earth .. able to hand Jesus the world "He Got the whole. world in his hand, he got the whole world .. in his hand .. come on .. you know the song !!

Did you not understand that Ha Satan is a God ? ... sure he is not the "Most High" God -- <El Elyon> -- not God Supreme <EL Oliun>
but he is a Son of God .. hangs out in heaven from time to time .. is job Title is the Tester of Souls on earth .. can hurl fire down from the sky.. and always gets the Job done for his Dad .. not verring outside of his word.

Doing the job that God sent him to do --- Lord Satan tested Jesus .. was able to offer him the whole world... which seems to confirm that it was him who took the throne after YHWH wask knocked off it.
 

jimb

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Genesis 1:1 - ‘In the beginning GOD created [all things]…’

John 1:1 - ‘In the beginning [THE WORD] created all things’

You all know the full verses … But clearly there is a problem - the two claims do not agree!

Who, exactly, is ‘God’?

Where did the WORD come from?

We know the ALMIGHTY word spoken BY God that created a things in the beginning, don’t we? What was it? Was it not: ‘Let there be light!’

Specifically, who are these words attributed to: God, or The Word…

Or is it sensibly just, ‘The word of God’, that created all things?

Reading further in Genesis, you will find absolutely no reference ‘The Word’… (as in ‘Son of God’ / Jesus)… is that strange seeing that certain Christian groups clearly claim that it was ‘Jesus’ who created all things (‘God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him.’ (John 1:3)

Not only does that verse alter the creation story in Genesis but it puts in place an entity that was never mentioned in Genesis. In fact, never mentioned in any verse anywhere in the whole of the Old Testament.

Here, in John 1: 1-3 we have an entirely new ‘person’ who is also claimed to be GOD… ‘The Word’.

But, again, nothing of ‘The Word’ is stated in the Old Testament. And even after Jesus does appear as the messiah, he himself says nothing about having created anything (carried out the greatest event in the whole of world activity!)

I do ponder, though, that the term, ‘Father’, means: ‘Creator, Bringer into being, Giver of life’, yet Jesus (or ‘the word’) is not attributed to this term. Instead, an entity of God, exactly called, ‘The Father’, is attributed to creation!

In fact, BOTH ‘GOD’ and ‘The Father’ are stated as ‘Creating all things’, which logically the two go together!! AND, Jesus, on appearing as a man on earth (that it’s claimed he created by some Christian groups) clearly states that he can do nothing except what he sees God (or the Father) doing first. In fact, he, Jesus was ‘Taught by God/The Father how and what to do and say’.

So, how is it that Jesus/The Son is supposed to have carried out the greatest event of all time (!!) and yet has to be taught how to exist in that event? This is a problem when we are expected to believe that Jesus pre-existed, and is therefore a Spirit (that’s a problem in itself as the only spirits we know of at the time of creation are God and the angels - and we know God created the angels - or did Jesus/the Son/the word?) and not a man (human/flesh being).

Can anyone throw light on this huge anomaly - a conundrum of almighty importance in Christian scriptural matters?
Are you drunk or stoned? This is the most incoherent garbage I have read in a long, long time.
 

jimb

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
There is no God speaking in your quote from Acts ? Paul is the speaker who directs us to Jesus for salvation .. directing us to the word of God.. for salvation. .. and the God of Jesus .. who's name you do not know .. but you said that you knew "The will of the Father" only those that do his will get into heaven .. that is where we are trying to get and so very happy for you to tell is the name of this wonderfull God of Jesus .. and what he commands us to do .. "The Will of the Father" ..

Now .. "One God" ?? -- What are you talking about .. I realize you believe in one God .. a God whose name you do not know .. and whose teachings on salvation you are not familiar .. but, there are many different Gods and Godesses in the Bible .. one of the most well known .. next to YHWH's wife Asherah .. Queen of Heaven they tell us .. is our Good friend Ha Satan - tester of souls .. tester of Jesus .. as he went through the ritual trial after which his God-spark was activated an immaculate conception of sorts .. but one having nothing to do with Mary. but this is first page of the New Testament stuff .. how is it you are not aware that "Ha Satan" is a God ? .. not just any God .. one with some heavy duty powers .. and .. depicted as Chief God on earth .. able to hand Jesus the world "He Got the whole. world in his hand, he got the whole world .. in his hand .. come on .. you know the song !!

Did you not understand that Ha Satan is a God ? ... sure he is not the "Most High" God -- <El Elyon> -- not God Supreme <EL Oliun>
but he is a Son of God .. hangs out in heaven from time to time .. is job Title is the Tester of Souls on earth .. can hurl fire down from the sky.. and always gets the Job done for his Dad .. not verring outside of his word.

Doing the job that God sent him to do --- Lord Satan tested Jesus .. was able to offer him the whole world... which seems to confirm that it was him who took the throne after YHWH wask knocked off it.
You have flunked Bible comprehension!
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
So clearly you're not aware of when you insult people, and then follow it with another insult of a false claim. Is that really the state of your spiritual health?

If you truly want to know how to achieve salvation, it's written in the Bible. Here is a short story for you to read...

"About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the rest of the prisoners were listening to them. Suddenly a great earthquake occurred, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken. Immediately all the doors flew open, and the bonds of all the prisoners came loose. When the jailer woke up and saw the doors of the prison standing open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, because he assumed the prisoners had escaped. But Paul called out loudly, “Do not harm yourself,[da] for we are all here!” Calling for lights, the jailer rushed in and fell down trembling at the feet of Paul and Silas. Then he brought them outside and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.” " Acts 16:25-31
Thank you for scripture. The jailer knew he needed salvation. And it was offered to him and his household. Thanks.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Are you changing the subject deliberately or by accident? Now you're talking about the Trinity. See if you can understand this: the Trinity (God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit) are three different aspects of the one Godhead. A similar situation: I am composed of three parts: 1) body, 2) mind, and 3) spirit. All exist separately, yet all are a part of me.

You clearly misunderstand Scripture! Why? Because you are TRYING to misunderstand it! You are trying to find errors or contradictions instead of trying to understand what it actually means..
I was going over some posts on this thread but feel compelled to respond to this now. Please explain, are you saying that Jesus and the Father are one person? Or two persons.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Pre-existence.
I asked you earlier what you thought it meant by "In the beginning," so let me see if I understand your response, please. You said 'in the beginning' means pre-existence. By that do you mean when the Word was in heaven before he came to the earth?
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
You have flunked Bible comprehension!

Now hold on a minute there Jimb - going around projecting your failings onto others is not an argument from the Truth .. failing to take log out of own eye.

who is the one who failed to understand that Ha Satan is a "Son of God" -- and depicted with great Godly powers in the book of Job ?
If we have failed in comprehending scripture then help us to comprehend .. as you said you would and tell us the God and Path to salvation - instead of hiding your light under a blanket.

What God of the Bible do you follow ? The Bible talks about many Gods .. the BAALs .. Asherah .. Queen of Heaven --- how is it that you failed to comprehend this .. and call me a flunke pointing you towards the Truth.

How is it that you will not tell us the name of your God --- but then say your good friend Ha Statan is not not a God when the Bible states otherwise. what is this deception coming from your direction .. this is not a failure to comprehend .. but deliberately turning away from the Truth, the way and the light.

Why will you not tell us who is "The Father" to whome you bow down ? and what are these commands by which you claim salvation is obtained.

Since you do not know or worship the God of Jesus .. and do not know his commands for salvation - which God do you worship - and what must we do to please this God .. such that we are granted salvation.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Are you drunk or stoned? This is the most incoherent garbage I have read in a long, long time.
It would be useful to hear answers to question I put to you - it would make you appear in some way credible… or is that your point : you aren’t credible so you can’t answer!!!

But, of course my postings to you seem as though nonsense … to you!!

If you’ve never heard the truth before then it will seem that way to you!!!

Jesus spoke the words God gave him to speak to the Jews… and they said the same about GOD’s words spoken by Jesus.

And Jesus said: ‘If they didn’t believe me, and I heard it from God, will they believe you who only heard it from me?’ : ‘If they persecuted me; they will certainly persecuted you, too!’
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
It would be useful to hear answers to question I put to you - it would make you appear in some way credible… or is that your point : you aren’t credible so you can’t answer!!!

But, of course my postings to you seem as though nonsense … to you!!

If you’ve never heard the truth before then it will seem that way to you!!!

Jesus spoke the words God gave him to speak to the Jews… and they said the same about GOD’s words spoken by Jesus.

And Jesus said: ‘If they didn’t believe me, and I heard it from God, will they believe you who only heard it from me?’ : ‘If they persecuted me; they will certainly persecuted you, too!’
Are you drunk or stoned? This is the most incoherent garbage I have read in a long, long time.
You have flunked Bible comprehension!

Look Jimb - have we moved into defensive mode .. feeling attacked .. and lashing out like a drunken sailor shouting at the wind .. complete with false and near childish playground accusation and personal invective .. no argument to be found anywhere in sight ... and then upon having mirror shown .. immediately attack the mirror holder for insult ..

I really don't think it has to be this complicated - You don't know the name of the God of Jesus .. nor the path to salvation proscribed by this God .. through his Son Jesus .. who through the Holy Spirit .. brought us the Word of the Father ..

YET - at the same time you claim to know the path to salvation .. by some God - one seemingly not from the Bible .. whose name you do not know. This makes absolutely no sense thus far .. but OK .. tell us the commands from this God .. what Jesus refers to as "The Will of the Father" .. cept this Father of yours is the brother from another mother... whos name you do not know and who you can not identify in the Bible
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Genesis 1:1 - ‘In the beginning GOD created [all things]…’

John 1:1 - ‘In the beginning [THE WORD] created all things’

You all know the full verses … But clearly there is a problem - the two claims do not agree!

Who, exactly, is ‘God’?

Where did the WORD come from?

We know the ALMIGHTY word spoken BY God that created a things in the beginning, don’t we? What was it? Was it not: ‘Let there be light!’

Specifically, who are these words attributed to: God, or The Word…

Or is it sensibly just, ‘The word of God’, that created all things?

Reading further in Genesis, you will find absolutely no reference ‘The Word’… (as in ‘Son of God’ / Jesus)… is that strange seeing that certain Christian groups clearly claim that it was ‘Jesus’ who created all things (‘God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him.’ (John 1:3)

Not only does that verse alter the creation story in Genesis but it puts in place an entity that was never mentioned in Genesis. In fact, never mentioned in any verse anywhere in the whole of the Old Testament.

Here, in John 1: 1-3 we have an entirely new ‘person’ who is also claimed to be GOD… ‘The Word’.

But, again, nothing of ‘The Word’ is stated in the Old Testament. And even after Jesus does appear as the messiah, he himself says nothing about having created anything (carried out the greatest event in the whole of world activity!)

I do ponder, though, that the term, ‘Father’, means: ‘Creator, Bringer into being, Giver of life’, yet Jesus (or ‘the word’) is not attributed to this term. Instead, an entity of God, exactly called, ‘The Father’, is attributed to creation!

In fact, BOTH ‘GOD’ and ‘The Father’ are stated as ‘Creating all things’, which logically the two go together!! AND, Jesus, on appearing as a man on earth (that it’s claimed he created by some Christian groups) clearly states that he can do nothing except what he sees God (or the Father) doing first. In fact, he, Jesus was ‘Taught by God/The Father how and what to do and say’.

So, how is it that Jesus/The Son is supposed to have carried out the greatest event of all time (!!) and yet has to be taught how to exist in that event? This is a problem when we are expected to believe that Jesus pre-existed, and is therefore a Spirit (that’s a problem in itself as the only spirits we know of at the time of creation are God and the angels - and we know God created the angels - or did Jesus/the Son/the word?) and not a man (human/flesh being).

Can anyone throw light on this huge anomaly - a conundrum of almighty importance in Christian scriptural matters?
The invention of written language, based on archeological evidence, appears in the time frame associated with Genesis; 5-6K years ago. My theory is written language is what allowed the human mind, to alter the natural human mind, to create the modern human mind. The Word "God" in some form, may have been the first written word, from which the first written alphabet, would be reverse engineered.

As an example of reverse engineering language; God or (Ga, aw, dah) is three blended sounds. It is three letters blended together. Now we have the first three letters. Next, we look around at the world and the natural language we already know, and find things with one or more of these sounds and add the extra sounds; get new letters; dot, (dah ah, ta). Now we have four letters; add ta. Next we have tree; ta rrr, eee. Eventually, you have all the sounds and letter symbols needed to express known spoken words. They did not use the word God, but would have had a different word; maybe yahweh, since that is very old. In the beginning was the word and the word was God.

Language is the matrix of human thought. This matrix could not fill in, to allow the most subtle thoughts, until written language appears. If we only had spoken language, which appears thousands of years earlier, if someone coined as new word, it may lost like a fad and disappear. Once you can write it down, even if a fad, it can be read and learned for generations, directly from the holy source. Authors coin new words all the time. The matrix of the human mind would expand faster.

Picture going to school without any written language. There are no books, no note taking, no teacher writing on the black board, white board, overhead, etc. All you have was spoken language and four one hour lectures each day. How much can you remember if you cannot review? If several people tried to remember together, each may recall different things with no written way, to show who is right; might is right. The natural brain will un-clutter and forget most and remember what you want.

Picture commerce without any written records or contracts, just word of mouth. It comes down to he said or she said; chaos. Without records civilization and commerce would break down. Once written records of words, events and records occur, the memory becomes better due to a way to review and practice. Plus you can now build upon the work of others; who came before; learn from the past, without having to reinvent the wheel. This allowed the mind to expand in terms of advancing ideas.

Written language was pivotal to the formation of sustainable civilization, that appears at the same time frame. Let there by light, was the first published physics theory. It may old but it was the first. From the matrix of written language, built from the word God, and the accumulation of records and education, led the human mind to think beyond nature, and speculate how they came to be; matrix of the mind.

Science only knows about the Big Bang, forward. Before that is only speculation in science. Created things, could mean only what we know. I cannot use science, to include what we do not know; before the BB. The Son could make the created things; known things, while the Father made all the created things; humans does not know, but will only know, as time goes on. We do not know that will be created in the future or what was before BB. This is from the Father, or the Son, if the Father says so, either way, in the future.
 
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jimb

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Now hold on a minute there Jimb - going around projecting your failings onto others is not an argument from the Truth .. failing to take log out of own eye.

who is the one who failed to understand that Ha Satan is a "Son of God" -- and depicted with great Godly powers in the book of Job ?
If we have failed in comprehending scripture then help us to comprehend .. as you said you would and tell us the God and Path to salvation - instead of hiding your light under a blanket.

What God of the Bible do you follow ? The Bible talks about many Gods .. the BAALs .. Asherah .. Queen of Heaven --- how is it that you failed to comprehend this .. and call me a flunke pointing you towards the Truth.

How is it that you will not tell us the name of your God --- but then say your good friend Ha Statan is not not a God when the Bible states otherwise. what is this deception coming from your direction .. this is not a failure to comprehend .. but deliberately turning away from the Truth, the way and the light.

Why will you not tell us who is "The Father" to whome you bow down ? and what are these commands by which you claim salvation is obtained.

Since you do not know or worship the God of Jesus .. and do not know his commands for salvation - which God do you worship - and what must we do to please this God .. such that we are granted salvation.
If you want to be saved, there is only one method: accept the fact that Jesus died for your sins.

Once you do that you may learn the truth, but maybe not.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Are you drunk or stoned? This is the most incoherent garbage I have read in a long, long time.

If you want to be saved, there is only one method: accept the fact that Jesus died for your sins.

Once you do that you may learn the truth, but maybe not.

Ohh Noo.. Jimbo - you are confusing the hands of man -- "the devil Lord Martin" for "The Word" of The Father .. Supplanting the word of the Father .. with man made dogma .. a dogma warned about by both Jesus and Brother James .. prophecy on the part of Lord Jesus.

"Free Pass Idology" - what a heresy . .this idea non existent within doctrine for the first 1500 years of Christianity=== but the hands of your friend Ha Satan were at work .. and as predicted by our lord and savior .. out popped Marty .. enemy of God's chosen people .. giving directions to a new breed of Christians .. following a new ideology.

Jesus never gave out general free passes through Judgement on the basis someone believing he died for their sins -- Yes .. he had the power and authority to redeem folks individually on the spot .. but there was no free pass through Judgement on the basis of your man made dogma.

Both Jesus and Paul -- claimed a day of judgement--- .. getting through the gates at that point not given on the basis of belief that the human sacrifice guarateed a free pass through judgment.

I don't know this God you worship -- .. and since you don't know his name its hard to help you out .. but this is not the God of Jesus .. not "The Word" .. not the set of commands given through Jesus peratining to how one gains salvation.

Please go read the word of our Lord - his most famous of sermons so how you are unaware is a puzzle - open your bible to Matt 5-7 -- "Blessed are the Poor in Spirit - for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven"

Now .. would one who comes in here declaring .... I have the key to salvation .. one who seems "Poor in Spirit" to you ?

read this sermon ,, the entire purpose of which .. is to explain to you what the Will of the Father is .. and how by doing the will of the Father one can enter the kingdom.

You mission is to tell us what Jesus says is "The will of the Father" .. which .. unfortunately for you and whomever your God is .. Lord Martin .. by all appearance - but you won't say for sure . it is not Lord Martin's Free Pass ideology.

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Jesus talking about the followers of Lord Martin .. cry Jesus Jesus Jesus .. all you like .. obviously each one gladely believing that the death of Jesus absolved all of sin .. including their own .. any committed in the past .. and any they might commit in the furture.

Who does not happiy believe in that ... except for Jesus don't . nor his God and Father. agree with those who would cheapen his blood ..and desecrate his sacrifice.

Anyhow .. glad we got that out of the way .. We know at least who your God is not ---- I really wish you could tell us the name of the God this Lord Martin with which you are so enamoured.
 

jimb

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Ohh Noo.. Jimbo - you are confusing the hands of man -- "the devil Lord Martin" for "The Word" of The Father .. Supplanting the word of the Father .. with man made dogma .. a dogma warned about by both Jesus and Brother James .. prophecy on the part of Lord Jesus.

"Free Pass Idology" - what a heresy . .this idea non existent within doctrine for the first 1500 years of Christianity=== but the hands of your friend Ha Satan were at work .. and as predicted by our lord and savior .. out popped Marty .. enemy of God's chosen people .. giving directions to a new breed of Christians .. following a new ideology.

Jesus never gave out general free passes through Judgement on the basis someone believing he died for their sins -- Yes .. he had the power and authority to redeem folks individually on the spot .. but there was no free pass through Judgement on the basis of your man made dogma.

Both Jesus and Paul -- claimed a day of judgement--- .. getting through the gates at that point not given on the basis of belief that the human sacrifice guarateed a free pass through judgment.

I don't know this God you worship -- .. and since you don't know his name its hard to help you out .. but this is not the God of Jesus .. not "The Word" .. not the set of commands given through Jesus peratining to how one gains salvation.

Please go read the word of our Lord - his most famous of sermons so how you are unaware is a puzzle - open your bible to Matt 5-7 -- "Blessed are the Poor in Spirit - for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven"

Now .. would one who comes in here declaring .... I have the key to salvation .. one who seems "Poor in Spirit" to you ?

read this sermon ,, the entire purpose of which .. is to explain to you what the Will of the Father is .. and how by doing the will of the Father one can enter the kingdom.

You mission is to tell us what Jesus says is "The will of the Father" .. which .. unfortunately for you and whomever your God is .. Lord Martin .. by all appearance - but you won't say for sure . it is not Lord Martin's Free Pass ideology.

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Jesus talking about the followers of Lord Martin .. cry Jesus Jesus Jesus .. all you like .. obviously each one gladely believing that the death of Jesus absolved all of sin .. including their own .. any committed in the past .. and any they might commit in the furture.

Who does not happiy believe in that ... except for Jesus don't . nor his God and Father. agree with those who would cheapen his blood ..and desecrate his sacrifice.

Anyhow .. glad we got that out of the way .. We know at least who your God is not ---- I really wish you could tell us the name of the God this Lord Martin with which you are so enamoured.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? What is this stuff about "Lord Martin"?
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? What is this stuff about "Lord Martin"?

It is the name of your God .. the source of "The Word" by which you believe salvation is achieved. .. John 1 "and The Word Was God"

except John is talking about a different word .. the word of the God of Jesus .. as opposed to the Word of Lord Martin -- wolf in sheeps clothing and purveyor of Free Pass Tokens .. you can sin as much as you like and your guaranteed entrance token is still going to work -- no judgement for anyone with free pass token.

Not even Paul went that far .. and "The Word" of Paul quite different than "the word" of Jesus ..

Did you read the Sermon of Jesus friend .. do not hide from the Truth .. the True God .. the True Word .. tell us what the will of the Father , who art in heaven , hallowed be thy name. A name which you have yet to understand .. come to Jesus .. come away from the demiurge .. of man made dogma.
 

jimb

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
It is the name of your God .. the source of "The Word" by which you believe salvation is achieved. .. John 1 "and The Word Was God"

except John is talking about a different word .. the word of the God of Jesus .. as opposed to the Word of Lord Martin -- wolf in sheeps clothing and purveyor of Free Pass Tokens .. you can sin as much as you like and your guaranteed entrance token is still going to work -- no judgement for anyone with free pass token.

Not even Paul went that far .. and "The Word" of Paul quite different than "the word" of Jesus ..

Did you read the Sermon of Jesus friend .. do not hide from the Truth .. the True God .. the True Word .. tell us what the will of the Father , who art in heaven , hallowed be thy name. A name which you have yet to understand .. come to Jesus .. come away from the demiurge .. of man made dogma.

If you mean the name of God the Father, it is "Yahweh" or "Jehovah". God the Son is "Yeshua" or "Jesus". God the Holy Spirit has no name.

Again, what is this "Lord Martin" nonsense? And also this "tokens" nonsense?

Either discuss things seriously or be ignored. It's your choice.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
If you mean the name of God the Father, it is "Yahweh" or "Jehovah". God the Son is "Yeshua" or "Jesus". God the Holy Spirit has no name.

Again, what is this "Lord Martin" nonsense? And also this "tokens" nonsense?

Either discuss things seriously or be ignored. It's your choice.

You are not the one taking things seriously . . your claim that there is only one God in the Bible was shown false .. just one example of another God is Ha Satan of Job - a Son of God .. and tester of souls on Earth --

why have you not addressed your false belief -- still going on pretending the falsehood is real ? -- is this not a serious theological issue you have just uncovered ? Who is the one here not taking Satan seriously in this puzzle - ? and thus the one not taking Jesus seriously .. because Jesus took the Devil Seriously .. recognized the power of the dark side.

Its your choice " ha ha " indeed it is a choice .. whether to continue down the path of deception .. knowingly .. or to turn towards the Truth.

YHWH" - Not at all what I mean . but is that the name of your God .. whose "The Word" you follow .. I don't think so .. better go back and check your OT Law for the path to be put right with that God .. YHWH don't give a flea on a rats back about the salvation formulation you have proposed .. that one can recieve a free pass through judgment .. simply by believing Christ died as an atonement for the sin of man.

Do you not realize that this ideology is from Martin Luther ? why are you asking who is "Lord Martin" .. my apologies I suppose.. I did not think that a "Serious" religious debater would not know Martin Luther .. especially when that is "The WORD" in which you believe and where your salvation formulation comes from ..

and last but not least .. the God of the Jews .. "The Father" -- Jesus calls "the Devil" - an interesting point of interest perhaps to someone who is Serious about the Devil

Can't remember if it was you or that other one who thought to Tempt Satan.. Not my thing .. I take the spiritual realm quite seriously thanks
 

jimb

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
You are not the one taking things seriously . . your claim that there is only one God in the Bible was shown false .. just one example of another God is Ha Satan of Job - a Son of God .. and tester of souls on Earth --

why have you not addressed your false belief -- still going on pretending the falsehood is real ? -- is this not a serious theological issue you have just uncovered ? Who is the one here not taking Satan seriously in this puzzle - ? and thus the one not taking Jesus seriously .. because Jesus took the Devil Seriously .. recognized the power of the dark side.

Its your choice " ha ha " indeed it is a choice .. whether to continue down the path of deception .. knowingly .. or to turn towards the Truth.

YHWH" - Not at all what I mean . but is that the name of your God .. whose "The Word" you follow .. I don't think so .. better go back and check your OT Law for the path to be put right with that God .. YHWH don't give a flea on a rats back about the salvation formulation you have proposed .. that one can recieve a free pass through judgment .. simply by believing Christ died as an atonement for the sin of man.

Do you not realize that this ideology is from Martin Luther ? why are you asking who is "Lord Martin" .. my apologies I suppose.. I did not think that a "Serious" religious debater would not know Martin Luther .. especially when that is "The WORD" in which you believe and where your salvation formulation comes from ..

and last but not least .. the God of the Jews .. "The Father" -- Jesus calls "the Devil" - an interesting point of interest perhaps to someone who is Serious about the Devil

Can't remember if it was you or that other one who thought to Tempt Satan.. Not my thing .. I take the spiritual realm quite seriously thanks

You are so confused that there is really no point in discussing anything relating to God, faith, etc.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
You are so confused that there is really no point in discussing anything relating to God, faith, etc.

What have I got confused ? -- you are the one having difficulty coming to grips with the fact that the Israelites believed in many Gods -- the Bible a representation of those beliefs .. one in which Satan is one of many "Sons of God.

If you don't believe the Bible - that is fine but, don't mistake your disbelief for the confusion of others. What part of Satan has God Like Powers .. and is called a Son of God -- and has power over the whole earth .. is confusing ?

That you find what the bible says "confused" .. is not my confusion . The Israelites were not Monotheists -- their story not one of Monotheism .. read the Bible for yourself one day and find out -- that your Monotheistic Beliefs have absolutely nothing to do with anything the Israelites Believed. .. and the Israelites believed that "Ha Satan" was a God .. and quite a powerful one at that. .. seated at the right hands of "The Father" testing the world of the living.
 
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