Who does not believe in freedom of choice in religion?

[Thief]

answering the title directly......

I have freely decided to have NO religion

I don't think it will matter as we stand before God and heaven

 

[Spirit of Light]

answering the title directly......

I have freely decided to have NO religion

I don't think it will matter as we stand before God and heaven

In my latest search for an answer to how an atheist would be "judged" if they was to be judged by a God, it would not be from how the believed, but about how morally good they had lived. So not judged by any religious teaching. Only by how they had acted and spoken in life
But I have no idea if God would judge someone who did not believe there is Gods most lightly only by actin and words.

 

[Polymath257]

This calls for some evidence or examples at least.

Pakistan's blasphemy laws call for the death penalty for those criticizing Islam. This is supported by the hardliners in Pakistan and has been used to prosecute anyone who even wants to reform those laws.

Do you consider this to be 'freedom of religion'?

But let's bring it closer to home.

Do you support the right of a Moslem to change their religion to, say Christianity, Judaism, or to become an atheist? What does the Quran say about those doing so?

 

[Thief]

In my latest search for an answer to how an atheist would be "judged" if they was to be judged by a God, it would not be from how the believed, but about how morally good they had lived. So not judged by any religious teaching. Only by how they had acted and spoken in life
But I have no idea if God would judge someone who did not believe there is Gods most lightly only by actin and words.

I picture God and heaven laughing

and when the giggles fade......
a good firm slap up side the head

so to speak

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Confessions? I hear some here don't believe in it.... Come out come out wherever you are..

You can also just name one from the last 1000 years and that way safely divert attention from yourself.

I heartily believe in it. I just would like that more people would choose "none" of their own accord. They are free to choose it... and even promote it. Just as I am free to inform them exactly why I think they are wrong to do so.

I feel there is a whole realm of complaint from people of "you're infringing on my religious rights" when all the person is doing is criticizing their ideas or calling them out on their BS. Is that really an infringement on your rights? Wouldn't it be more an infringement on someone's rights to try and stifle lines of questioning and attempts to criticize or scrutinize religion?

In the end... I wholeheartedly believe that your religious choice is no better than OPINION. And as such, you should remain free to express your opinion, and I should remain free to express mine.

 

[exchemist]

This calls for some evidence or examples at least.

Asia Bibi blasphemy case - Wikipedia

 

[stvdv]

Part of freedom of religion is freedom to criticize religions. And *that* will get you into trouble in many places in the world.

I think "Freedom of Religion" in essence means "you are free to choose the (non) Religion you prefer"; it has nothing to do with Criticizing Religions
I think "Freedom of Speech" in essence means "You are free to speak how you feel"; here comes the freedom to criticize

To criticize (non) Faith (meaning belief as in thoughts) of others is rather idiotic in my opinion, as it goes against "Freedom of Religion"
To criticize (non) Faith based actions of others, which are harmful (to others) is good, that has nothing to do with "Freedom of Religion"

 

[Polymath257]

I think "Freedom of Religion" in essence means "you are free to choose the (non) Religion you prefer"; it has nothing to do with Criticizing Religions
I think "Freedom of Speech" in essence means "You are free to speak how you feel"; here comes the freedom to criticize

To criticize (non) Faith (meaning belief as in thoughts) of others is rather idiotic in my opinion, as it goes against "Freedom of Religion"
To criticize (non) Faith based actions of others, which are harmful (to others) is good, that has nothing to do with "Freedom of Religion"

I disagree. To critique the beliefs of others is part of the exploration process involved in finding one's own religious beliefs. it is a crucial part of freedom of religion. To find that some religious ideas are harmful or destructive and to be allowed to publicly state such is at the heart of religious freedom.

But, again, if someone is Moslem and decides to convert to Christianity, is that allowed? or is it considered an insult to Islam and held to be worthy of death? What if someone has pagan beliefs? is there freedom to choose and exercise such beliefs?

 

[Piculet]

I feel there is a whole realm of complaint from people of "you're infringing on my religious rights" when all the person is doing is criticizing their ideas or calling them out on their BS. Is that really an infringement on your rights?

I agree, which is why I think proselytising of religion should be permitted in as much as proselytising of atheism is permitted.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I agree, which is why I think proselytising of religion should be permitted in as much as proselytising of atheism is permitted.

Yes... permitted. Just as criticism of the practice should also be permitted.

To be sure - I don't go out looking for Jehovah's Witnesses going door to door, and try to stop them from doing what they are doing. But I might engage them in conversation, and ask them why it is they are so sure about what they believe, and let them know the reasons I cannot believe what they are peddling. Do you see the difference? They are free to roam the streets - even free to knock on my door. Yet when they do the latter, they can expect to have a staunch opponent to their views and ideas, and a jolly good debate we may have!

They are, of course, free to leave, and stop listening to me at any time, but make no mistake, I reserve my right to target their ideas with my wit, and attempt to rend them to pieces as long as they are there conversing with me. After all... it was they that expected me to listen to them in the first place, was it not?

 

[Brickjectivity]

Confessions? I hear some here don't believe in it.... Come out come out wherever you are..

You can also just name one from the last 1000 years and that way safely divert attention from yourself.

The UK's Kings of the past. They were very insistent that everyone join their new Anglican church.

Any time the government states it has a religion. Look at the government of Saudi Arabia. Look at China. Yeah, there are a lot of people who don't believe it.

We have to take, to seize that freedom. We have to endure these governments as they come and go.

 

[Piculet]

To criticize (non) Faith (meaning belief as in thoughts) of others is rather idiotic in my opinion, as it goes against "Freedom of Religion"

Wait — don't you do this? I, btw, think it's okay. Just wondering about your position.

 

[Piculet]

Of course condemnation for apostasy is wrong.

I don't think it's in the same category as freedom of choice in religion. At the same time everyone has a free will.

 

[stvdv]

I disagree. To critique the beliefs of others is part of the exploration process involved in finding one's own religious beliefs

I agree "exporation process in finding one's own (non) beliefs" is needed and important
I agree that to be critical towards how others live and do things (beliefs) and not copy all of it blindly, is important in the learning process
Seems I define "freedom of religion" a little different. I can live with that

 

[stvdv]

But, again, if someone is Moslem and decides to convert to Christianity, is that allowed?

IF a country has "Freedom of Religion" I would think there is no problem, otherwise there would not be "Freedom of Religion"
BUT if a country has a law that prohibits Muslims to convert to Christianity, then I see there no "Freedom of Religion". Just follow Law of country
(And I might try to get out of such a country as fast as possible; I love freedom of thought/Religion; and I find being imposed/forced inhumane)

or is it considered an insult to Islam and held to be worthy of death?

If a country has a Law allowing to kill those that convert from Islam to Christianity, that country has no "Freedom of Religion"

Unless you consider "Freedom of Religion" to be "All are free to express a Religion (imposed by Law)", so not "free to choose their own religion"

 

[stvdv]

What if someone has pagan beliefs? is there freedom to choose and exercise such beliefs?

Freedom of Religion means to me a Pagan is free to choose and exercise his beliefs, unless he goes against the Law in the country
As long as you keep your religion in your mind, then there is no problem. The moment you exhibit, impose or hurt others, then other Laws apply

 

[Aupmanyav]

Who does not believe in freedom of choice in religion?

Sure, people are free to believe in stupid superstitious things. It is a free world.

 

[ppp]

I don't think it's in the same category as freedom of choice in religion. At the same time everyone has a free will.

Physical torture and loss of community are deep seated terrors for most people. The religions that inculcate those fears into their adherents from childhood prey upon those human vulnerabilities. The condemnations for apostasy are an attempt to abridge free will through coercion and fear under the guise of love.

 

[stvdv]

To criticize (non) Faith (meaning belief as in thoughts) of others is rather idiotic in my opinion, as it goes against "Freedom of Religion"
To criticize (non) Faith based actions of others, which are harmful (to others) is good, that has nothing to do with "Freedom of Religion"

Wait — don't you do this? I, btw, think it's okay. Just wondering about your position.

I don't criticize other's thoughts here
I criticize others who verbally criticize my thoughts

My thoughts/feelings (unexpressed) are personal, none of your (or others) business

 

[Aupmanyav]

In my latest search for an answer to how an atheist would be "judged" if they was to be judged by a God, it would not be from how the believed, but about how morally good they had lived.

well, that is not true with Abrahamic religions. Good deeds are not enough to save one from eternal hell.

I agree, which is why I think proselytising of religion should be permitted in as much as proselytising of atheism is permitted.

I do not think atheist proselytize. But they answer when the theists trumpt their religions, its propagators and their books. The theists give them a chance and they do not hold back.

We have to take, to seize that freedom. We have to endure these governments as they come and go.

Be careful. The Saudis gave a dissenter an acid bath. Hacking down or shooting down dissenters is so very common, even in court premises, in some countries.