There are an awful lot of fundamentalists to whom it's not so obvious.
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Who does not believe in freedom of choice in religion?
- Thread starter Piculet
- Start date
I believe in freedom of religion -- and I believe in freedom from religion, and freedom to change from religion to religion, or from religion to none, and back again.
Do you? Does Islam?
I do not criticize people's faith, or their non-faith, per se. On the other hand, if somebody makes an irrational claim to me about what they believe, I feel perfectly find pointing out why it is irrational. For example, those who might say, "God is love, but remember that God hates ****," (you'll hear that at Westboro Baptist Church, for example), encourage me to point out the complete illogic. That extends all the way to saying that "the God you seem to believe in cannot exist, because it is self-contradictory."
On the other hand, those who simply have their faith, live by their faith, and do not feel they have to explain their faith to me (this includes most of the people I've ever known, by the way), to them I have absolutely nothing to say about their faith.
MonkeyFire
Well-Known Member
Yeah, is this a threat to true believers?
Piculet
Active Member
I believe whatever Islam teaches, however, I don't understand well what Islam teaches regarding your question.
Piculet
Active Member
What for?
Obviously, those who are not against individuals choosing the religion to be believe in, are not against "the freedom of choice in a religion." And those who are opposed that position are against it. But most importantly, those who think that others who are against the teachings of religions are against "the freedom of choice in a religion," then they are ignorant of what that position actually means.
It's confession time, are you one of those individuals? Be honest now, and come out with what you really think. No need to be afraid of being persecuted, majority of people in here are also for the "freedom of speech."
It's confession time, are you one of those individuals? Be honest now, and come out with what you really think. No need to be afraid of being persecuted, majority of people in here are also for the "freedom of speech."
Very simple, really, and I'm pretty sure you understand quite well, but would rather not be put on the spot. Is a Muslim free, after long and careful consideration, to decide that Islam is not the correct religion, and to either convert to another, or to declare himself an atheist? Simple question, really.
Piculet
Active Member
I already gave a simple answer; I don't know. You might be OK making careless assertions, but I take the topic seriously. Anyway, since you're just brushing up your ego with this, I can inform you, that if Islam necessitates that apostates be killed, I have no problem with that, so don't worry — if I knew that to be a fact, I would inform you about that.
Piculet
Active Member
This Fatawa describes how an Egyptian man turned apostate and the subsequent punishment prescribed for him by the Al-Azhr Fatawa council. The following translation is a rough guide: In the Name of Allah the Most Beneficient the Most Merciful. Al-Azhr Council of Fatawa. This question was presented by Mr. Ahmed Darwish and brought forward by [name obscured] who is of German nationality. A man whose religion was Islam and his nationality is Egyptian married a German Christian and the couple agreed that the husband would join the Christian faith and doctrine. 1) What is the Islamic ruling in relation to this man? What are the punishments prescribed for this act? 2) Are his children considered Muslim or Christian? The Answer: All praise is to Allah, the Lord of the Universe and salutations on the leader of the righteous, our master Muhammed, his family and all of his companions. Thereafter: This man has committed apostasy; he must be given a chance to repent and if he does not then he must be killed according to Shariah. As far as his children are concerned, as long as they are children they are considered Muslim, but after they reach the age of puberty, then if they remain with Islam they are Muslim, but if they leave Islam and they do not repent they must be killed and Allah knows best. Seal of Al-Azhr Head of the Fatawa Council of Al-Azhr. Abdullah al-Mishadd (عبد الله المشد) 23rd September 1978.
Well, you know how that saying goes, "If you can't beat them, join them."
So, become an atheist. And you don't have to worry about your freedom of speech, unlike how you are doing it to yourself, we don't strip you of your freedom. Evidence is seen how you are able to communicate your ignorance but nobody is trying to stop you from sharing your ignorance.
I find this more than a little scary.
You would be fine with such a pronouncement if that is what Islam necessitates?
This is the point, in my mind, where religion becomes evil.
No, not just for atheists. For everyone. That does mean people have to learn to tolerate ideas they disagree with.
This seems like a very clear case of someone *not* believing in freedom of religion.
stvdv
Veteran Member
Of course if they "impose" on you their claim, they asked for it, I would say.
I agree. It's as simple as that. If they slam their faith in your face, whatever they get in return is their self created karma (IMO)
stvdv
Veteran Member
I call this Muslim extremism, where a human becomes dehumanized, and changes Islam "Religion of Peace" into "Religion of Evil"
Jimmy
King Phenomenon
HahaAssume what, that a frivolous post might demand an equal response?
I don't understand the question