Who is God?

[YoursTrue]

Any evidence of the sequel?

Your God does not love unconditionally. Remember, he does not just have a heaven, but a hell as well where he can inter souls for an eternity of torture.
Horrible.

Many religions teach about a hellfire. But the Bible does not confirm that idea. A God of love would never torture anyone forever. Ever. But He would not allow Adam & Eve to live forever either.

 

[wellwisher]

One way to answer what is God is, is with an analogy that Atheists can understand. Science assumes; has faith, there is life on other planets, even though science has to no real tangible proof; seeing would be believing. If we accept their faith, for the sake of argument, it logically follows there may also be Aliens, that are millions of years ahead of us, in terms of civilization, culture and technology. If life took several billion years to form on earth, what is a few million years; head start or skipped steps.

We all die because the our body wears out and health problems appear. As we get older, the part of us, who we were; consciousness, seems to stay forever young. But we notice our body is not cooperating like it used to, as we age. We cannot burn the candle from both ends any longer. We have to watch what we eat and do.

Say the advanced Aliens, saw this organic body problem a million years ago. They decided to get rid of the fragile organic body and place consciousness into machines, that do no wear out and/or can be replaced as needed, in part or in whole. In other cases, they do not even use bodies at all, but rather only use energy fields; zero point energy, to sustain their consciousness, as they travel the universe at the speed of light

In their travels they come to earth. How would they need to present themselves for humans not to get anxious or paranoid? They are so far ahead of us, that the fear of novelty would kick humans into over drive. Being just consciousness, without any tangible body would spook many people; ghosts or astral projections. Science would be besides itself after all those years of denial. If they were in their advanced interactive machines, that are not harmed by bullets or bombs, the military would be very nervous. They would need to go slow, assess us, and try to dumb it down so humans can be comfortable enough to feel and want peace and what to learn about the future.

God has to be many things to many people. God cannot be himself; full strength, since he is way too advance and this would lead to fear due to ignorance. But if he dumbs down to something warm and fuzzy, we can understand or grasp, God has a bridge and toe in the door. This is why east and west religions have different ways to interact with God; different cultural needs, with each of these base religions, tailored to smaller and smaller needs, all the way to an individual relationship to a God variation. God cannot teach us things, if we are not ready to understand. Some are afraid to ask and others are not ready.

If you watch science fiction, not all scenarios are as effective in terms of audience appeal. Some things are easier to accept and others things are sort of expected, so we have an easy way to orientate ourselves. It is easier if the Alien has advanced tech bling. God is similar to that. We will find commonality. The main difference is, science fiction has more way to create sensory input into the brain, due to books, movies; audio visual and even toys. This can fool the animal brain since semi-hard sensory data will be collected and written to memory; extra false positive. Like magic, if you can see it, it is easier to believe.

Religion does not offer as much in the way of faux sensory input. Instead, it makes much more use of the imagination and our internal sensory systems, than our external sensory systems; more frontal lobe versus more visual cortex. The frontal lobe is more advanced in terms of place in evolution. God seems to reach us via the more advanced part of the brain. Science fiction dumbs it down more; sensory, since it characters are limited by the imagination; frontal lobe, of human writers, who then use actors, directors and producers to create sensory output; stimulate the imagination plus write to the animal brain.

 

[muhammad_isa]

A God of love would never torture anyone forever...

A "God of love" would not torture anybody .. full stop.
..but that does not stop us torturing ourselves.

 

[dybmh]

How one replaced all your other tribal Gods and Goddesses?

Simple answer, it was basically a conversion. Moses had a conversion event in Midian at the burning bush. The Jewish nation had a conversion event at Sinai. But they continued to struggle with this for thousands of years until the era of prophecy ended with Malachi.

Where from did Moses get the idea - Akhenaten or Zoroaster?

It wouldn't be Zoroaster, contact with the Persians came much later. Moses' formative years were spent in the care of his own mother who was brought into Pharoah's household by Pharoah's daughter ( Exodus 2:7-9 ). The Jewish people retained their beliefs and language while in Egypt. Moses' mother passed this to her son. These beliefs were aroused/awakened when Moses saw the Jewish slave being abused, and were confirmed at the burning bush.

When comparing the theologies of other religions to the theology of Moses, I think it's important to read their texts and compare the creation stories in total. Then try to understand what these myths are communicating. Moses' theology is going from an only God reality to a reality which includes material multiplicity through divine fiat.

 

[Aupmanyav]

M'tzuyan, the event was cham'riy since Moses came back with the tablets (and, as is reported, he saw the hind part).

 

[YoursTrue]

Simple answer, it was basically a conversion. Moses had a conversion event in Midian at the burning bush. The Jewish nation had a conversion event at Sinai. But they continued to struggle with this for thousands of years until the era of prophecy ended with Malachi.



It wouldn't be Zoroaster, contact with the Persians came much later. Moses' formative years were spent in the care of his own mother who was brought into Pharoah's household by Pharoah's daughter ( Exodus 2:7-9 ). The Jewish people retained their beliefs and language while in Egypt. Moses' mother passed this to her son. These beliefs were aroused/awakened when Moses saw the Jewish slave being abused, and were confirmed at the burning bush.

When comparing the theologies of other religions to the theology of Moses, I think it's important to read their texts and compare the creation stories in total. Then try to understand what these myths are communicating. Moses' theology is going from an only God reality to a reality which includes material multiplicity through divine fiat.

I was thinking also that the laws and restrictions that Moses put down did not just come from a genius, but God's spirit working with Moses. Come to think of it, even the creation account makes sense. Not that I understand everything, but the difference between types of living beings and matter makes sense to me. (Now.) Do I understand everything in the account? Nope. I do believe that God by means of his spirit will explain to me one day how it happened in more detail. At least I hope so.

 

[dybmh]

M'tzuyan, the event was cham'riy since Moses came back with the tablets (and, as is reported, he saw the hind part).

I don't understand the objection. And if you don't mind, english is my native language, and we're on an english language website, so please use english. If you want to say it's a crazy/foolish idea, it's completely fine to say it in english. But it would be good to also say why you think so.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Tried to use Hebrew words.
What I meant was to ask whether you think it was a real (material) event or a spiritual one, like how the Rishis heard the divine words in Vedas (Shruti - what was heard)? That was not material.

 

[dybmh]

Tried to use Hebrew words.
What I meant was to ask whether you think it was a real (material) event or a spiritual one, like how the Rishis heard the divine words in Vedas (Shruti - what was heard)? That was not material.

I understand it rather literally. When God is speaking, there is a sound. A physical sound. Maybe just a sound in the ear, that no one else can hear. But it's still a physical real occurance. Air is being compressed into waves, that are registered in the ear. What's given in writing, I believe it is true. But there are details that are missing. So, when Moses was in Midian, and had the encounter with the burning bush, first there was an angel, then it was the voice of God through the forces of nature, then it was the eternal God, the creator of everything which his mother taught him about. The revelation increased, step by step, convincing Moses that he was contacted by the God of his ancestors, not a tribal, or egyptian god. We don't know precisely how this revelation was increasing or what Moses was experiencing with each step. Those details aren't given. There is probably a spiritual component. And something may have been happening in his mind. But the names used for God communicate what was generally happening. And yes, I think he was physically hearing something and seeing something.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Moses' ancestors were Levite Jews, and YHWH is a God who did not want the tribe to worship any other God or Goddess but him.
I do not think YHWH ever said that he is the only God and there is no other God or Goddess.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I do not think YHWH ever said that he is the only God and there is no other God or Goddess.

There is only One Creator and Maintainer of the universe.
Any other god, is not worthy of worship.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

There is only One Creator and Maintainer of the universe.
Any other god, is not worthy of worship.

Yeah and I am the True Knower of that and you are not.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Any other god, is not worthy of worship.

Worthy or not, you do accept existence of other Gods (and Goddesses) - as per what you have written.
Who started this One God business in Middle-East? Jesus was a Jew, he could not have denied existence of other deities.

 

[dybmh]

Moses' ancestors were Levite Jews, and YHWH is a God who did not want the tribe to worship any other God or Goddess but him.
I do not think YHWH ever said that he is the only God and there is no other God or Goddess.

It is in the first of the 10 statements you listed.



The only God and no other is what "Anochi YHVH" means. The four letter name has deep significance, each letter, each stroke, and probably each vowel sound united with this form audibly communicates God's solitary dominion. It's clearest in Hebrew script, but it's even visible in paleo-hebrew. It's also communicated in the word Anochi which is not the standard word for "I". Normally "I" is Ahnee. Here it is "Ah-no-ch-ee". It doesn't take much to recognize that this is a more specific emphasized version of "I". But more than that, each vocalization as it is formed in the mouth combined with the vowels communicates, "I am he who is completely unique." You can play with it yourself. And we can talk about it more if you want.

Moses confirms all of this before the nation begins their conquest in Deut 4:35 "To you it was shown, that you might know that the Lord is God; there is no other beside him." To you it was shown. Shown. That's what was happening in Egypt with the plagues. God was showing Egypt AND the Israelites that there is no other God. Each plague demonstrated that each egyptian god that they knew was subservient to YHVH. And there they were on the mountain, YHVH is revealing itself to them, they are terrified, and say "Make it stop!" People speculate, why were they afraid? The text says, thunder and lightning, and trumpets. The Prophetess Deborah later says, "the mountain was melting/flowing". The revelation at Sinai was like reality deconstructing. YHVH said to them, there are no other gods, and it was shown to them. Not that everyone who was there got the message. But, anyway.

The entire first statement is:

​

I am the Lord your God, who have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.​

So, it's the name YHVH, and the word anochi, and the events resulting in the redemption from egypt, all of that is communicating, "I am God and there are no other gods." The burning bush encounter communicates essentially the same thing on a smaller individual scale.

From here, many people will wonder, naturally, about the second statement. Once YHVH has revelead itself, the elokim achaimreem, translated as "other gods" have been demoted to forces of nature completely subservient to YHVH. These forces exist, but should not be included with YHVH or considered in anyway in relation to YHVH. The wording here is "Ahl-Panai", "towards my face". So those other forces belong in the back of the bus, so to speak.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"I am he who is completely unique." You can play with it yourself. And we can talk about it more if you want.

Moses confirms all of this before the nation begins their conquest in Deut 4:35 "To you it was shown, that you might know that the Lord is God; there is no other beside him."

Sure, YHVH is unique; but to be unique, you need others. One cannot be unique without the presence of others.
And yes, the Lord is God, there are no other who lord for the tribe Israel, the Habiru. I do not see Moses confirming here that there are no other Gods.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Who is God?

The Holy Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

 

[dybmh]

Sure, YHVH is unique; but to be unique, you need others. One cannot be unique without the presence of others.
And yes, the Lord is God, there are no other who lord for the tribe Israel, the Habiru. I do not see Moses confirming here that there are no other Gods.

The Jews were slaves in egypt, they had the egyptian gods to compare to. And a primitive person is going to view all sorts of natural occurances to divine powers. Honestly, it comes down to the definition of a god. At a certain point, a god is nothing more than an angel. How would you as a primitive person distinguish between one of these other gods and an angel?

And FYI: most people have abandoned the theory that they were Habiru. That's a generic title for a rufian. The newer theory is that they were Shasu.

Shasu - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[dybmh]

The Holy Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Eccl 3:11

He has made every thing beautiful in his time; also he has set the mystery of the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work which God has made from the beginning to the end.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The newer theory is that they were Shasu.

Our ancestors, all, at one time or the other, were 'Shasu' (those who move on foot). That includes the cattle-breeding Indian Aryans too.

.. so that no man can find out the work which God has made from the beginning to the end.

That is the basic problem. No one has found out the work which God has made.

 

[dybmh]

Our ancestors, all, at one time or the other, were 'Shasu' (those who move on foot). That includes the cattle-breeding Indian Aryans too.

The article indicates a geographic region far from India, and that they were slaves in egypt.

That is the basic problem. No one has found out the work which God has made.

Why is it a problem? Judaism does not require anyone to believe who is not directly connected to the events described. Further, there's a benefit to not knowing because knowing undermines a completely true understanding. That is the entire purpose of this thread.