Who is Satan? Or what does Satan represent to you?

[EtuMalku]

Belial in Judaism is not a character, its an adjective meaning "without yoke [of G-d]" on him/them. Its synonymous with "wicked", not "satan".
Nor does this name appear in a book I have describing various destructive entities.
I guess along with "Prince of Darkness", this is another foreign concept attatched to a word in Tanach by later Christians.

I think you're getting hung up on the word prince of darkness instead of the ideology behind it, or perhaps you don't completely understand what this principle is?

 

[EtuMalku]

"The Prince of Darkness is a spirit of rebellion (Question Authority and never sell yourself into slavery; become, be, and stay free). He's a spirit of independence, intelligence, will, pride, indulgence, enjoyment, and similar qualities" - Balanone

 

[Tumah]

I think you're getting hung up on the word prince of darkness instead of the ideology behind it, or perhaps you don't completely understand what this principle is?

That's a good point. Can you explain what the concept means?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

"The Prince of Darkness is a spirit of rebellion (Question Authority and never sell yourself into slavery; become, be, and stay free). He's a spirit of independence, intelligence, will, pride, indulgence, enjoyment, and similar qualities" - Balanone

That ' spirit of rebellion' is connected with the ' power of the air ' at Ephesians 2:2-4

The spirit of the world promotes the ' desires of the flesh ' - 1 John 2:16 - such as listed at Galatians 5:19-21; 2 Timothy 2:14-18
The more a person takes in the world's spirit ' polluted spiritual air ' then the more like Satan a person becomes.
We all choose to be either governed by God's spirit or the world's spirit.- Philippians 4:7-8

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So there is both badness and goodness in the world?

Yes, we can either violate or listen to one's conscience - Romans 2:14-15; Ephesians 2:2-4 - and as to what is taught in Scripture.
Satan and Adam chose wrong desires - James 1:13-15

 

[EtuMalku]

That's a good point. Can you explain what the concept means?

I did . . . http://www.religiousforums.com/thre...n-represent-to-you.189728/page-8#post-4852962

 

[EtuMalku]

That ' spirit of rebellion' is connected with the ' power of the air ' at Ephesians 2:2-4

The spirit of the world promotes the ' desires of the flesh ' - 1 John 2:16 - such as listed at Galatians 5:19-21; 2 Timothy 2:14-18
The more a person takes in the world's spirit ' polluted spiritual air ' then the more like Satan a person becomes.
We all choose to be either governed by God's spirit or the world's spirit.- Philippians 4:7-8

How can we believe the writings of men that lied about their writings being divine and whose intentions were to guilt other men into religious servitude and false rewards and punishments?

 

[Tumah]

I did . . . http://www.religiousforums.com/thre...n-represent-to-you.189728/page-8#post-4852962

Sorry, don't know how I missed that.

"The Prince of Darkness is a spirit of rebellion (Question Authority and never sell yourself into slavery; become, be, and stay free). He's a spirit of independence, intelligence, will, pride, indulgence, enjoyment, and similar qualities" - Balanone

This is not consistent with Jewish thought. In Judaism the satans are not themselves rebellious against G-d, but are employed by G-d to test man. In the Midrash we even find them singing praise to G-d like all other angels. They try to evoke the qualities of stubborness, pride and indulgence, but they don't embody these traits themselves.

 

[EtuMalku]

Sorry, don't know how I missed that.


This is not consistent with Jewish thought. In Judaism the satans are not themselves rebellious against G-d, but are employed by G-d to test man. In the Midrash we even find them singing praise to G-d like all other angels. They try to evoke the qualities of stubborness, pride and indulgence, but they don't embody these traits themselves.

Sorry, don't know how I missed that.


This is not consistent with Jewish thought. In Judaism the satans are not themselves rebellious against G-d, but are employed by G-d to test man. In the Midrash we even find them singing praise to G-d like all other angels. They try to evoke the qualities of stubborness, pride and indulgence, but they don't embody these traits themselves.

Then find what / who embodies the spirit of rebellion and independence from Yahweh and you'll have your Judaic Prince of Darkness.
The Prince of Darkness is an archetype of pride, carnality, liberty, enlightenment, undefiled wisdom, it is the evolutionary force of entropy that permeates all of nature and provides the drive for survival and propagation inherent in all living things.

 

[Tumah]

Then find what / who embodies the spirit of rebellion and independence from Yahweh and you'll have your Judaic Prince of Darkness.
The Prince of Darkness is an archetype of pride, carnality, liberty, enlightenment, undefiled wisdom, it is the evolutionary force of entropy that permeates all of nature and provides the drive for survival and propagation inherent in all living things.

I guess I don't think we have anything like that. The evil inclination provides many of those drives but doesn't actually embody them. Rebellion from G-d is only possible by humans who don't constantly experience the unity of the Divine as other conscious creatures do.

 

[EtuMalku]

I guess I don't think we have anything like that. The evil inclination provides many of those drives but doesn't actually embody them. Rebellion from G-d is only possible by humans who don't constantly experience the unity of the Divine as other conscious creatures do.

In that case I would say that ha-satan is exactly what it means, the adversary. Whatever is adversarial to your spiritual and physical freedom, including yourself.

 

[Tumah]

In that case I would say that ha-satan is exactly what it means, the adversary. Whatever is adversarial to your spiritual and physical freedom, including yourself.

Ok, but why reinterpret it that way, when as we see from Job, it seems to refer to the entity the goes against Job's (and presumably everyone else's) desire to be faithful to G-d.

 

[EtuMalku]

Ok, but why reinterpret it that way, when as we see from Job, it seems to refer to the entity the goes against Job's (and presumably everyone else's) desire to be faithful to G-d.

There's never just one way to explain something :


The Biblical Job can be seen as a great Lucifer due to his confrontation with God's ruthless cruelty, it will bring about a change in God's behavior (truly an act of great Magick) and present us with a pinnacle of Luciferianism in that man has the ability to stand morally higher than God and thus the creature surpasses the creator!

In the Book of Job God is challenged by ‘one of his sons' Satan which represents the ‘doubting thought'. (In Persian tradition, Ahriman is born of Ahura Mazda's doubting thoughts.) God abandons his faithful servant Job and lets him fall without pity into the abyss of physical and moral suffering by murdering his sons and daughters, taking away his livestock, and eventually making the shattered Job of ill and suffering health.

Job, abandoned without protection and stripped of his rights, whose nothingness thrown in his face at every opportunity evidently appears to be so dangerous to God that he must be battered down with God's heaviest artillery. God's robbery, murder, bodily injury is premeditating and he even denies a fair trial. He shows no remorse, or compassion, but ruthlessness and brutality, he violates the very commandments he dictated to man on Mount Sinai.

What is the reasoning behind God the Almighty's resistance to such a little, puny, and defenseless man such as Job? There must be something which man has the ability to achieve, and this something is the very same something found in the Garden of Eden story with our hero Lucifer as serpent. God sees in Job something of equal in power which causes him to bring out his whole arsenal of destruction and parade it before his opponent. God projects onto Job a sceptic's face which is hateful because it is his own, it questions his omnipotence.

The unconscious mind of Job sees correctly even when conscious reason is blind and impotent.

God's dual nature has been revealed. Job, in spite of his impotence, is set up by Satan to judge over God himself. God unwittingly raises Job's spiritual consciousness by humiliating him, and in doing so God pronounces judgment on himself and gives man moral satisfaction.

God's behavior is that of an unconscious being who cannot be judged morally. God is a phenomenon and, as Job says in the Bible, "not a man." Not human but, in certain respects, less than human, which is how God described the Archdemon of the West Leviathan.

Job realizes God's inner antinomy, and in the Luciferian Light of this gnosis his knowledge attains a divine numinosity . . . Job becomes like a god!

 

[Tumah]

There's never just one way to explain something :


The Biblical Job can be seen as a great Lucifer due to his confrontation with God's ruthless cruelty, it will bring about a change in God's behavior (truly an act of great Magick) and present us with a pinnacle of Luciferianism in that man has the ability to stand morally higher than God and thus the creature surpasses the creator!

In the Book of Job God is challenged by ‘one of his sons' Satan which represents the ‘doubting thought'. (In Persian tradition, Ahriman is born of Ahura Mazda's doubting thoughts.) God abandons his faithful servant Job and lets him fall without pity into the abyss of physical and moral suffering by murdering his sons and daughters, taking away his livestock, and eventually making the shattered Job of ill and suffering health.

Job, abandoned without protection and stripped of his rights, whose nothingness thrown in his face at every opportunity evidently appears to be so dangerous to God that he must be battered down with God's heaviest artillery. God's robbery, murder, bodily injury is premeditating and he even denies a fair trial. He shows no remorse, or compassion, but ruthlessness and brutality, he violates the very commandments he dictated to man on Mount Sinai.

What is the reasoning behind God the Almighty's resistance to such a little, puny, and defenseless man such as Job? There must be something which man has the ability to achieve, and this something is the very same something found in the Garden of Eden story with our hero Lucifer as serpent. God sees in Job something of equal in power which causes him to bring out his whole arsenal of destruction and parade it before his opponent. God projects onto Job a sceptic's face which is hateful because it is his own, it questions his omnipotence.

The unconscious mind of Job sees correctly even when conscious reason is blind and impotent.

God's dual nature has been revealed. Job, in spite of his impotence, is set up by Satan to judge over God himself. God unwittingly raises Job's spiritual consciousness by humiliating him, and in doing so God pronounces judgment on himself and gives man moral satisfaction.

God's behavior is that of an unconscious being who cannot be judged morally. God is a phenomenon and, as Job says in the Bible, "not a man." Not human but, in certain respects, less than human, which is how God described the Archdemon of the West Leviathan.

Job realizes God's inner antinomy, and in the Luciferian Light of this gnosis his knowledge attains a divine numinosity . . . Job becomes like a god!

I agree that many things can be interpreted different ways, but your interpretation here seems to be an interpretation of some of the basic themes rather than the story. A lot of what you're writing here doesn't seem like it would fit what the verses actually say. I mean Job starts off with G-d showing Job off to satan as a great guy and satan questioning Job's greatness what with G-d spoiling him. There doesn't seem to be something G-d fears about him and as is made clear in the opening chapter, satan is verifying Job's faithfulness.

Anyway, I wasn't really trying to argue against your interpretations of various concepts, only to point out that some of your concepts are not present in Judaidm and are only fit into the text through Christian theology or some other reinterpretation.

 

[Liu]

In the Book of Job God is challenged by ‘one of his sons' Satan which represents the ‘doubting thought'. (In Persian tradition, Ahriman is born of Ahura Mazda's doubting thoughts.)

Nice comparison, also between Lucifer and Job, I hadn't noticed that way of interpreting it.
But, Ahriman is born out of Zurvan's (time's) doubt; Ahura Mazda is Ahriman's younger twin brother.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Creating Satan is inconsistent with a perfectly moral God.

But what if God did not create Satan?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

But what if God did not create Satan?

Then he is not the only god in existence.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Yes, we can either violate or listen to one's conscience - Romans 2:14-15; Ephesians 2:2-4 - and as to what is taught in Scripture.
Satan and Adam chose wrong desires - James 1:13-15

Then the world is not a world of badness (alone).

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Then he is not the only god in existence.

That doesn't necessarily follow.

 

[RRex]

Who is Satan? Or what does Satan represent to you?

Who? Castaneda's foreign installation.

What does he represent? The negative entity that dogs my every step/breath/thought.