Who is Siva? (Shiva)

[Vinayaka]

I just wanted to point out some crucial differences in understanding of Siva between Saivites like me, and Hindus of other sects. There is often confusion. This is motivated by the thread on Maha Sivaratri. So really it is a distinction between a Saivite, and a Smarta Hindu whose ishta is Shiva.

For Saivites, Sivaratri is THE BIG DAY, the most sacred day for Saivites, rivaled by no other day. We also celebrate some other festivals like Murugan ones or Vinayaka Chaturthi.
For other Hindus, particularly Smartas and 'liberal' Hindus, Sivaratri is just another Hindu festival, like Deepavali, Ram Navamai, Krishna Janmastami, and more.

For Saivas, the common forms of worship are lingam, Dakshinamoorthy, and Nataraja. For other Hindus, the most common form is the human like Mahadeva, blue-throated image you see all over. For Saivas, we rarely worship that image. For example, I don't even have that picture in my house.

For Saivites, Siva is God, period. There is no separate Vishnu, Shakti, or Brahma. Those are all contained within Siva as powers.
For others, Siva is just one God of the trimurthi, or in the case of Vaishnavas, a chief disciple of Vishnu.

In Saivism, Aum Na Ma Si Va Ya is THE mantra, and gotten through initiation by a qualified Guru. There is no need for any other mantra than this one. In other sects Aum Namashivaya is just another mantra, just another bhajan song.

So when different people talk of Siva, they can mean essentially different concepts completely. Personally, many years ago, this confused me too, Basically I thought by worshipping Siva in any way, one must be a Saivite. But it simply isn't true.

In pure Saivite temples, Siva will be the central presiding murthi, not in a side shrine. There will also be no other murthies besides Murugan and Ganesha, although there may be some smaller shrines for other forms of Siva, or saints, or the Planets.

I don't think there are any other Saivites of this variety on here.

 

[Jainarayan]

I don't think there are any other Saivites of this variety on here.

I'll bet it's a rarity anywhere and everywhere. Those at temple who said they are Shaiva regularly made rounds to all the sanctums and shrines, not only to Shiva's, or Murugan's or Ganesha's; they attended pujas and abhishekams to Vishnu and his forms. Shaivite priests participated in Vishnu pujas, and Vaishnavite priests participated in Shiva pujas. One of the Shaivite priests, knowing I'm (nominally) Vaishnava told me to do Shiva's mantra 1,008 times, in front of his sanctum before I had my shoulder surgery.

 

[atanu]

I am a similar saivite. However, in advaita experience of shiva, there cannot be any any objective or subjective awareness. Shiva is for dissolution -- dissolution of all desires. And in absence of desire whatever is IS Shiva. Otherwise also it is true.

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

Vanakkam Vinayaka Ji

I just wanted to point out some crucial differences in understanding of Siva between Saivites like me, and Hindus of other sects. There is often confusion. This is motivated by the thread on Maha Sivaratri. So really it is a distinction between a Saivite, and a Smarta Hindu whose ishta is Shiva.

For Saivites, Sivaratri is THE BIG DAY, the most sacred day for Saivites, rivaled by no other day. We also celebrate some other festivals like Murugan ones or Vinayaka Chaturthi.
For other Hindus, particularly Smartas and 'liberal' Hindus, Sivaratri is just another Hindu festival, like Deepavali, Ram Navamai, Krishna Janmastami, and more.

For Saivas, the common forms of worship are lingam, Dakshinamoorthy, and Nataraja. For other Hindus, the most common form is the human like Mahadeva, blue-throated image you see all over. For Saivas, we rarely worship that image. For example, I don't even have that picture in my house.

For Saivites, Siva is God, period. There is no separate Vishnu, Shakti, or Brahma. Those are all contained within Siva as powers.
For others, Siva is just one God of the trimurthi, or in the case of Vaishnavas, a chief disciple of Vishnu.

In Saivism, Aum Na Ma Si Va Ya is THE mantra, and gotten through initiation by a qualified Guru. There is no need for any other mantra than this one. In other sects Aum Namashivaya is just another mantra, just another bhajan song.

So when different people talk of Siva, they can mean essentially different concepts completely. Personally, many years ago, this confused me too, Basically I thought by worshipping Siva in any way, one must be a Saivite. But it simply isn't true.

In pure Saivite temples, Siva will be the central presiding murthi, not in a side shrine. There will also be no other murthies besides Murugan and Ganesha, although there may be some smaller shrines for other forms of Siva, or saints, or the Planets.

I don't think there are any other Saivites of this variety on here.

Thank you very much for this tread, this is exactly how I see things too as an follower of Saiva Siddhanta.

This is a wealth of information, thank you again

Aum Namah Shivaya

 

[Vinayaka]

I am a similar saivite. However, in advaita experience of shiva, there cannot be any any objective or subjective awareness. Shiva is for dissolution -- dissolution of all desires. And in absence of desire whatever is IS Shiva. Otherwise also it is true.

The idea that Siva is for dissolution only is not my view. This would be the view of the people who see God as a trimuti, or the advaita view, and dissolution is Siva's role in that. I'm not sure if that's what you meant though.

In my view Siva is also Causal, Personal, underlying substratum, concealer, revealer, Father, Mother, and more. All of this is best conveyed in the image of Nataraja dancing his endless dance. Nataraja being the main deity on my shrine reflects this.

I'm also an advaitin, but in a different sense, not as a practical viewpoint, but as the ultimate viewpoint, or the viewpoint I'll (this soul) will be in at the culmination of Siddhanta.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'll bet it's a rarity anywhere and everywhere.

Not really. In Tamil Nadu, Sri Lanka, the Himalayas and elsewhere it exists, and if you dig deeper at your temple, you'll find some, but they are just polite enough to go with the crowd. I do the same at a Smarta temple, but just make the rounds without any real feeling for it. I can never figure out who's God at those places.

 

[Omkara]

I'll bet it's a rarity anywhere and everywhere.

Tamil Nadu, the state of India where I come from, has over 60 million Shaivas, and there are hundereds of millions throughout India,maybe about 40% of all Hindus. Shaiva and Vaishnava mean very different things in India than in the west, particularly in orthodox circles. Vinayaka does a very good job of explaining what Shiva means to someone like me who was born in an orthodox Shaiva Brahmin family.

 

[Jainarayan]

Not really. In Tamil Nadu, Sri Lanka, the Himalayas and elsewhere it exists, and if you dig deeper at your temple, you'll find some, but they are just polite enough to go with the crowd.

Interesting, but not surprising then. Indians are very polite and accomodating.

I do the same at a Smarta temple, but just make the rounds without any real feeling for it. I can never figure out who's God at those places.

Yeah, we talked about this several times about the temple. Sri Guruvayurappan is the presiding deity, but the pujas are pretty much equally divided between him and Shiva. If anything it's a Harihara or Shankarnarayana (Swaminarayan?) temple, which is fine with me if it wun't so durn big.

 

[Vinayaka]

Tamil Nadu, the state of India where I come from, has over 60 million Shaivas, and there are hundereds of millions throughout India,maybe about 40% of all Hindus. Shaiva and Vaishnava mean very different things in India than in the west, particularly in orthodox circles. Vinayaka does a very good job of explaining what Shiva means to someone like me who was born in an orthodox Shaiva Brahmin family.

I think your estimate is a bit high, as TN only has 70 million people period, but I get the point. Still, when you go there you really know you're in Siva's land. Most big temples are either for Siva or for Murugan. There are a few Vaishnava exceptions like SriRangam, and there is a Smarta influence hither thither.

 

[Omkara]

I think your estimate is a bit high, as TN only has 70 million people period, but I get the point. Still, when you go there you really know you're in Siva's land. Most big temples are either for Siva or for Murugan. There are a few Vaishnava exceptions like SriRangam, and there is a Smarta influence hither thither.

I read the figure in a newspaper some time ago, but I'll grant that it may be slightly inflated.

 

[atanu]

The idea that Siva is for dissolution only is not my view

Idea and view?

That is not my view also, nevertheless. But Shiva as the Godhead is the last, the destroyer. He, in addition to being the controller of the triple guna-s, is also the destroyer (of the attachment to the triple guna-s and consequent sorrows). He is the Seer and He is also the dissolver. Else any other Deity would do.

Om Namah Shivaya

 

[Me Myself]

All names and forms are gods names and forms. I worship Shiva as God, I also worship Ganesh and Krishna. All of them are the supreme God to me. Though, I still worship Shiva and think of Shiva as the personal face to which I address the supreme God.

I dont call myself a saiva or part of any specific hindu religion, just a Shiva worshipper.

It makes things easier in my head

 

[Me Myself]

Oh and I do associate Shiva more with destruction than anything else, but still I see m as I ve said like the divine being capable of all. Destruction is merely an association.

The one at first most attracted me to him, even.

 

[Vinayaka]

All names and forms are gods names and forms. I worship Shiva as God, I also worship Ganesh and Krishna. All of them are the supreme God to me. Though, I still worship Shiva and think of Shiva as the personal face to which I address the supreme God.

I dont call myself a saiva or part of any specific hindu religion, just a Shiva worshipper.

It makes things easier in my head

This most closely resembles the Smarta view or just a modern liberal view. But its all okay. I'm not trying to belittle any viewpoint by pointing out there are different viewpoints.

 

[atanu]

All names and forms are gods names and forms. I worship Shiva as God, I also worship Ganesh and Krishna. All of them are the supreme God to me. Though, I still worship Shiva and think of Shiva as the personal face to which I address the supreme God.

I dont call myself a saiva or part of any specific hindu religion, just a Shiva worshipper.

It makes things easier in my head

I agree. A Hindu who does not agree with the Vedic teaching "Truth is one. Sages call it by different names", has not yet been touched fully by the Destroyer, (in my opinion).

The Vak (the Word) comes after the Being.

 

[Me Myself]

This most closely resembles the Smarta view or just a modern liberal view. But its all okay. I'm not trying to belittle any viewpoint by pointing out there are different viewpoints.

I am sure you are not

 

[Atman]

For Saivas, the common forms of worship are lingam, Dakshinamoorthy, and Nataraja. For other Hindus, the most common form is the human like Mahadeva, blue-throated image you see all over. For Saivas, we rarely worship that image. For example, I don't even have that picture in my house.

It is worth clarifying to those who are not so familiar that the Nataraja and Dakshinamoorthy forms of Shiva both also appear as human like, and blue throated. The difference from other generic images of Shiva meditating as a yogi is the very specific iconography, and function these two depictions of Shiva embody. You can read more about the various forms of Shiva here at Shaivam.org Forms of Lord Shiva Also among North Indian schools of Shaivism, like the Nathas the image of Shiva meditating as the Mahayogi is still very popular.

 

[mohinishaktidevi]

I'm not "commenting on" any viewpoint by pointing out there are different viewpoints.

Is this like a zen koan?

 

[Vinayaka]

Is this like a zen koan?

What's a zen koan?

 

[Vinayaka]

It is worth clarifying to those who are not so familiar that the Nataraja and Dakshinamoorthy forms of Shiva both also appear as human like, and blue throated. The difference from other generic images of Shiva meditating as a yogi is the very specific iconography, and function these two depictions of Shiva embody. You can read more about the various forms of Shiva here at Shaivam.org Forms of Lord Shiva Also among North Indian schools of Shaivism, like the Nathas the image of Shiva meditating as the Mahayogi is still very popular.

I've never (maybe, but I can't remember) seen Nataraja blue throated, only in metal, and Dakshinamoorthy only in stone. I don't get around much I guess. No doubt Mahayogi is very popular in the North, and the North style is what is more popular in the west. Like Murugan, you won't see much Nataraja there either. (There's a confusing story/essay here somewhere involving directions)