Who is Siva? (Shiva)

[Atman]

I've never (maybe, but I can't remember) seen Nataraja blue throated, only in metal, and Dakshinamoorthy only in stone. I don't get around much I guess. No doubt Mahayogi is very popular in the North, and the North style is what is more popular in the west. Like Murugan, you won't see much Nataraja there either. (There's a confusing story/essay here somewhere involving directions)

You dig around enough on the internet you can find depictions of these forms with the famous blue throat of Shiva. Even if most modern depictions of Shiva as a meditating yogi, or as a householder he is usually depicted as either being solid blue, solid white, or fair in skin colour. Either way though it's certainly interesting to note the difference in region, and sect, can play in how a deity is depicted or viewed by his followers.

 

[Atman]

Vinayaka if you don't mind me asking how do you view Bhairava? I know in North India and Nepal he is usually viewed as being another form of Lord Shiva, however some South Indian traditions I've heard view him instead as a seperate, yet important deity, who acts as a temple guardian for Shiva. Is there an official stance in the Nandinatha sampradaya of Saiva Siddhanta?

 

[Vinayaka]

Vinayaka if you don't mind me asking how do you view Bhairava? I know in North India and Nepal he is usually viewed as being another form of Lord Shiva, however some South Indian traditions I've heard view him instead as a seperate, yet important deity, who acts as a temple guardian for Shiva. Is there an official stance in the Nandinatha sampradaya of Saiva Siddhanta?

He is not separate from Siva, but an 'aspect', and the gatekeeper to both temples and the religion.

From the Lexicon of Dancing with Siva "Terrifying" Lord Siva as the fiery protector. He carries and is represented by a Trisula, a symbol often enshrined as a guardian at the entrance to Siva temples. So this would be like in the North.

I've seen Him both in a murthi form and as a trident enshrined. At my local temple He's just inside the front door, and also holds the key to the sanctum door when the temple is closed. So the priest has to beseech him first before opening the door.

Vibration wise, the shakti there can be pretty strong, as one might expect. Kind of like 'the bouncer', but mystically.

 

[Vinayaka]

You dig around enough on the internet you can find depictions of these forms with the famous blue throat of Shiva. Even if most modern depictions of Shiva as a meditating yogi, or as a householder he is usually depicted as either being solid blue, solid white, or fair in skin colour. Either way though it's certainly interesting to note the difference in region, and sect, can play in how a deity is depicted or viewed by his followers.

Yeah, you can find a lot of stuff by 'digging around' as you say, even some stuff where 'artistic license' was used extensively.

 

[atanu]

On this day, let me include here two prayers/praises for the Lord, one from Rig Veda and another from Upanishad.

The Rig Veda verse speaks of how, Indra, the Lord of the Mind-Senses, the terrestrial and heavenly Lord is great because His refuge is Shiva, who is the source of intelligence, sustenace, and exhilaration. Indra is said to have destroyed vritra -- a demon embodying all the negativities resident in Mind-Senses with help from His father, Shiva.

It is Shiva's sweet Being spread all around that we enjoy as bounties, as fragrance, as food, as joy. The prayer, however, warns those who hold on to such bounty selflishly get stiff neck. Shiva's bounties are to be enjoyed and shared.

Rig Veda

1.187.01 I glorify Father, the great, the upholder, the strong, by whose invigorating power Trita (Indra) slew the mutilated Vr.tra (the demon of evil tendencies).

1.187.02 Savoury Pitaa; sweet pitaa; we worship you; become our protector.

1.187.03 Come to us, Pitaa, Shiv with auspicious aids; a source of delight; not unpalatable; a friend well respected, and having none but agreeable properties.

1.187.04 Your flavours, Pitaa, are diffused through the regions, as the winds are spread through the sky.

1.187.05 Those (men), Pitaa, (are the enjoyers of your bounty), who are your distributors, most sweet Pitaa, (to others); they who are the relishers of your flavours, are as if they had stiff necks.

1.187.06 The thoughts of the mighty gods are fixed, Pitaa, upon you; by your kind and intelligent assistance, (Indra) slew Ahi.

1.187.07 When, Pitaa, this (product) of the water-wealthy clouds, (the rain), arrives; then do you, sweet Pitaa, be at hand with sufficiency for our eating.

1.187.08 And since we enjoy the abundance of the waters and the plants; therefore, Body, do you grow fat.

1.187.09 And since we enjoy, Soma, your mixture with boiled milk or boiled barley; therefore, Body, do you grow fat.

1.187.10 Vegetable cake of fried meal, do you be substantial, wholesome, and invigorating; and, Body, do you grow fat.

1.187.11 We extract from you, Pitaa, by our praises, (the sacrificial food), as cows yield butter for oblation; from you, who are exhilarating to the gods; exhilarating also to us.

The 2nd set of praise is from the Svetasvatara Upanishad. The first verse says that Shiva is beyond the light and darkness. When the true light rises (when the darkness of ignorance is dispelled) there then is none but Shiva. He is the the intelligence of the manifest Lord of this Universe, Savitri-the Being of the Sun, who is energy and intelligence of this world.

The second verse says that Shiva-Mahesvara is that which is ruler of our sleep and beyond the sleep. He is Lord of the Lords and there is no way that beings will not know Him.

Svet. Up,
4.18 yadaa.atamastaanna divaa na raatriH
na sannachaasachchhiva eva kevalaH .
tadaxara.n tat.h saviturvareNyaM
praGYaa cha tasmaat.h prasR^itaa puraaNii .. 18

4.18. When the light has risen, there is no day, no night, neither existence nor non-existence; Shiva (the blessed) alone is there. That is the eternal, the adorable light of Savitri, - and the ancient praGYaa proceeded thence.


6.7 tamiishvaraaNaaM paramaM maheshvara.n
ta.n devataanaaM parama.n cha daivatam.h .
patiM patiinaaM paramaM parastaad.h\-
vidaama devaM bhuvaneshamiiDyam.h .. 7..

6.7
We will know this mightiest, Lord of sleep (and beyond sleep), one who is above all the mighty – this summit of the gods and their godhead, King of Kings and Lord of Lords, who towereth high above all summits and greatnesses. Let us learn of God for he is this universes' master and all shall adore him.

Om Namah Shivaya

 

[atanu]

For those who like to read, I include the following link to 'Speaking Tree' a spiritual supplement to an Indian newspaper. The Sunday edition is dedicated to Shiva on the occassion of Shivaratri.

Enjoy.

Spiritual Articles - Religion and Spirituality Articles from Spiritual Gurus

 

[mohinishaktidevi]

This is what the vaishnava school esp the Iskcon and Gaudiya matha write.

From what I know Sankarsana as referring to Shiva is also a name for Balarama.

Bhaktivedanta Swami's Purports to Bhagavata purana 10.1.69.

Ramanujacarya sometimes accepts Baladeva as a saktyavesa-avatara, but Srila Jiva Gosvami has explained that Baladeva is an expansion of Krishna and that a part of Baladeva is Sankarsana. Although Baladeva is identical with Sankarsana, He is the origin of Sankarsana. Therefore the word svaraö has been used to indicate that Baladeva always exists in His own independence. The word svaraö also indicates that Baladeva is beyond the material conception of existence. Maya cannot attract Him, but because He is fully independent, He can appear by His spiritual potency wherever He likes. Maya is fully under the control of Visnu. Because the material potency and yogamaya mingle in the Lord’s appearance, they are described as ekanaàsa. Sometimes ekanaàsa is interpreted to mean “without differentiation.” Sankarsana and Sesa-naga are identical. As stated by Yamunadevi, “O Rama, O great-armed master of the world, who have extended Yourself throughout the entire universe by one plenary
expansion, it is not possible to understand You fully.” Therefore ekaàsa refers to Sesa-naga. In other words, Baladeva, merely by His partial expansion, sustains the entire universe.

Bhaktivedanta Swami's Purports to Chatanya Caramrita Adi-lila 5.10.

According to expert opinion, Balarama, as the chief of the original quadruple forms, is also the original Sankarsana. Balarama, the first expansion of Krishna, expands Himself in five forms: (1) Maha-sankarsana, (2) Karanabdhisayi, (3) Garbhodakasayi, (4) Ksirodakasayi, and (5) Sesa. These five plenary portions are responsible for both the spiritual and material cosmic manifestations. In these five forms Lord Balarama assists Lord Krishna in His activities. The first four of these forms are responsible for the cosmic manifestations, whereas Sesa is responsible for personal service to the Lord. Sesa is called Ananta, or unlimited, because He assists the Personality of Godhead in His unlimited expansions by performing an unlimited variety of services. Sri Balarama is the servitor Godhead who serves Lord Krishna in all affairs of existence and knowledge.

 

[Jainarayan]

This is what the vaishnava school esp the Iskcon and Gaudiya matha write.

From what I know Sankarsana as referring to Shiva is also a name for Balarama.

Now I understand what you were saying before in speaking about Balarama. Thank you for expanding the explanation But isn't it generally believed that Balarama is Adi Shesha, as was Lakshmana, incarnated to be always with Vishnu?

 

[mohinishaktidevi]

Now I understand what you were saying before in speaking about Balarama. Thank you for expanding the explanation But isn't it generally believed that Balarama is Adi Shesha, as was Lakshmana, incarnated to be always with Vishnu?

Yes, Adi means first or original.

But that is why the relationship between Vishnu and Shiva are subtlely connected. And the differences are rooted in 'rasas' or 'relationship mellows' that arise when pastimes occur with their respective devotees.

This may be relatable parallel if I mention Lord Chaitanya mahaprabhu's avatar appearence 500 years ago. It is said that the mystery of Chaitanya advent was that God (here known as Krishna) wanted to taste the 'love of Godhead' that Radha bestowed upon him. So to taste the mellows of Radha's loving devotional sentiments, God advented in the guise of a sannyasa vaishnav swami and lived the life of devoted renunciate. That part is esoteric. The outer reason for the advent 500 years ago was inaugerating the Maha-mantra's popularity.
And I assume you already know what the maha-mantra is known as.

 

[Jainarayan]

But that is why the relationship between Vishnu and Shiva are subtlely connected.

Which is my belief.

And I assume you already know what the maha-mantra is known as.

Oh certainly! In fact the name Hare is also the vocative of Harā another name for Rādhā, as well as the vocative of Hari. So given the inflections and plays on words in Sanskrit, the Mahā Mantra can refer to Hari, Rādhā, Krishna and Rāma. No wonder it is so powerful!

 

[Vinayaka]

Aum Namah Shivaya also, as in the OP means a lot of diiferent things to different people.

As for the maha Mantra, that is very true for Vaishnavites, but for me, one of the few Saivites on the block here, it truly has no meaning.

 

[mohinishaktidevi]

If one side of the coin has one mantra
then the other side has the other mantra.

 

[DeviChaaya]

Aum Namah Shivaya also, as in the OP means a lot of diiferent things to different people.

As for the maha Mantra, that is very true for Vaishnavites, but for me, one of the few Saivites on the block here, it truly has no meaning.

Don't feel alone - I have never felt anything for the Vaishnav maha mantra either. It is the name of a deity I have absolutely no affection for (not for want of trying!) but Namah Shivaya has great meaning for me.

I take refuge in Shiva who as Dakshinamurti is the divine teacher of all.

Om Namah Shivaya
Har Har Mahadeva!

 

[DreadFish]

I've always felt an attraction to Shiva.

In a non-dogmatic way, I feel that Shiva is whatever he needs to be for the seeker of enlightenment.

I also never really cared for the Maha Mantra either, but Om Namah Shivaya just has a nice feeling to me.

 

[Vinayaka]

Don't feel alone -

But, but .... I like feeling alone.

 

[DreadFish]

And, as for the title question: who indeed?

Like "Doctor Who?", it is the first question—the oldest question in the universe hidden in plain sight.

 

[DeviChaaya]

But, but .... I like feeling alone.

Well then you're just going to have to suffer my company, aren't you?

 

[mohinishaktidevi]

Is it correct to assume that the majority of devotees at Kumba melas are Shivites?

 

[DeviChaaya]

No, I don't think so. Millions of people attend Kumbha Melas and we must remember that Vaishnavism is the most popular form of Hinduism. Shaivism and Shaktism probably comprise about 40% of Hindus while the remaining 60% are Vaishnava.

I think Shaiva and Shakta ascetics tend to be more visible because they eschew a lot of the traditional norms. We must also remember that there are a number of Vaishnava traditions that out right reject asceticism - the Shri Vaishnavas for example. I believe the Swami Narayan sect also rejects asceticism.

 

[Vinayaka]

Is it correct to assume that the majority of devotees at Kumba melas are Shivites?

Nope. Everybody goes. Not just ascetics. Ascetics might make up less than 5 %. Hindus of all stripes. The estimate this year was 100 million, as it was the 12 of every 12 years, so only happens every 144 years. I know someone who went. Quite the adventure, he said.