Who is the Baha’i Jesus and how does He differ from the Christian Jesus?

[CG Didymus]

Alright. Thus mate can you tell me who is referred to as Akram Rasool in the Bahai scripture? Since this is the topic, you should know this well as you said "Something you know more about, maybe?"

Like I said, I respect your knowledge and your opinions. You are usually so respectful of others. Some of us are way too argumentative in our posts. Don't let us get to you. Especially me. I need to learn things from you. I have no idea who this "Akram Rasool" is referring to. Please tell me what you think about this? I think the main issue is the difference between the conservative Christian view of who Jesus as compared to the liberal view of Jesus that the Baha'is have.

 

[firedragon]

Like I said, I respect your knowledge and your opinions. You are usually so respectful of others. Some of us are way too argumentative in our posts. Don't let us get to you. Especially me. I need to learn things from you. I have no idea who this "Akram Rasool" is referring to. Please tell me what you think about this? I think the main issue is the difference between the conservative Christian view of who Jesus as compared to the liberal view of Jesus that the Baha'is have.

I asked that from someone who had particular attitude in a sentence. I know that you won't know about who this "Akram Rasool" is but you don't have to. I asked that due to a proclamation of some kind of superior knowledge and a demeaning expression.

Hope you understand. Brother, respect deserves respect, but not everyone. Some deserve a return of their own defective medicine, like the blind cut and paste hate preachers. One must always respect others and their faiths and not just cut and paste hate preaching. I was showing that anyone can do "cut and paste jobs" which is a gutter game.

Nevertheless, I don't understand what you mean by "Conservative view" and "Liberal View" of Jesus. Are you referring to the technical term liberal or do you have another view? Please explain.

If you are referring to the technical term liberalism in theology I certainly think the Bahai's do not have a liberal conception but a very conservative, very traditional view of Jesus. Thats what I think but I could be wrong. I think the Bahai view of Jesus predates modern day Christianity, and also, in terms of Liberal Theology, Christians have moved beyond (some) Bahai's in the 20th century but they are a fringe group.

 

[oldbadger]

Exactly so you can tell your clan you referred to as "we" to stick to that topic. If you don't know what happened so far, don't put your finger into an unknown gutter.

Are you suggesting that you were in the gutter, back there?

 

[firedragon]

Are you suggesting that you were in the gutter, back there?

Try a tad cinnamon with tea. Nice.

 

[oldbadger]

Alright. Thus mate can you tell me who is referred to as Akram Rasool in the Bahai scripture? Since this is the topic, you should know this well as you said "Something you know more about, maybe?"

I'll ask you again, what is your opinion about the Baha'i Jesus, and how do you think he differs from the Christian Jesus. ??

Do you have an opinion about the subject, or not?

 

[Trailblazer]

what is your opinion about the Baha'i Jesus, and how do you think he differs from the Christian Jesus. ??

Well, for one thing, the Christian Jesus was raised from the dead and the Baha'i Jesus died on the cross and His soul then ascended to heaven....
Sorry for the interruption, I was just looking for an excuse to talk to you.

 

[CG Didymus]

I asked that from someone who had particular attitude in a sentence. I know that you won't know about who this "Akram Rasool" is but you don't have to. I asked that due to a proclamation of some kind of superior knowledge and a demeaning expression.

Hope you understand. Brother, respect deserves respect, but not everyone. Some deserve a return of their own defective medicine, like the blind cut and paste hate preachers. One must always respect others and their faiths and not just cut and paste hate preaching. I was showing that anyone can do "cut and paste jobs" which is a gutter game.

Nevertheless, I don't understand what you mean by "Conservative view" and "Liberal View" of Jesus. Are you referring to the technical term liberal or do you have another view? Please explain.

If you are referring to the technical term liberalism in theology I certainly think the Bahai's do not have a liberal conception but a very conservative, very traditional view of Jesus. Thats what I think but I could be wrong. I think the Bahai view of Jesus predates modern day Christianity, and also, in terms of Liberal Theology, Christians have moved beyond (some) Bahai's in the 20th century but they are a fringe group.

What I mean by "conservative" Christian is Fundamentalists. By "liberal" I mean Liberal Christians that don't take everything in the Bible literally. Baha'is also don't take everything in the Bible literal. So the Baha'i Jesus died and did not physically come back life... Only his spirit rose. The "conservative" Fundamentalist Christian believe that Jesus did come back to life. Which one is right? Both? Neither?

 

[firedragon]

I'll ask you again, what is your opinion about the Baha'i Jesus, and how do you think he differs from the Christian Jesus. ??

Do you have an opinion about the subject, or not?

Yes I have an opinion. But see, you are not my dad to speak like you dictate terms especially with such poor knowledge and character.

 

[firedragon]

What I mean by "conservative" Christian is Fundamentalists. By "liberal" I mean Liberal Christians that don't take everything in the Bible literally. Baha'is also don't take everything in the Bible literal. So the Baha'i Jesus died and did not physically come back life... Only his spirit rose. The "conservative" Fundamentalist Christian believe that Jesus did come back to life. Which one is right? Both? Neither?

I understand your question. As far as I know the Bahai view is a little similar to the Marcion view except they begin with the death of Christ, and this predates many other Christianities. I am not here to tell you which one is right.

 

[CG Didymus]

I understand your question. As far as I know the Bahai view is a little similar to the Marcion view except they begin with the death of Christ, and this predates many other Christianities. I am not here to tell you which one is right.

What it all comes down to... is Baha'u'llah the return of Christ and everyone else that was promised in all the other major religions? If so, the Baha'i Jesus is the true Jesus. If not, then who is Baha'u'llah? There's a lot riding on this. I, personally, have too many questions that have not been adequately answered to believe in either one.

 

[MJFlores]

Wrong. I cut and pasted all of those verses in response to another persons random cut and pastes. So you got it all wrong for the sake of argument.

Cheers.

 

[Trailblazer]

CG Didymus said: What it all comes down to... is Baha'u'llah the return of Christ and everyone else that was promised in all the other major religions? If so, the Baha'i Jesus is the true Jesus. If not, then who is Baha'u'llah? There's a lot riding on this. I, personally, have too many questions that have not been adequately answered to believe in either one.

There certainly is a lot riding on this, our eternal life. But how can we know for sure? Some of us believe we know for sure, but we will only know for sure after we die. Unfortunately, by then it might be too late to change our minds.

The way I look at it, there really is no other explanation for Baha'u'llah -- who He was, what He did on His mission, and what He wrote -- other than that He was telling the truth. What Baha'u'llah told us to look at as evidence is ample proof for me.

“Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. This is, verily, an evidence of His tender mercy unto men.” Gleanings, p. 105

 

[oldbadger]

Well, for one thing, the Christian Jesus was raised from the dead and the Baha'i Jesus died on the cross and His soul then ascended to heaven....
Sorry for the interruption, I was just looking for an excuse to talk to you.

Hello! ....

That is not a real big problem, imo.
The 'oldbadger' Jesus either survived the cross or was the Jesus that got pardoned and released. So we've all got our ideas about this person from the mists of time.

I think the problem starts with Christ, spun in to being by Christians very early on, early enough for the very gospels to have 'evolved' or mutated from each other in to Christianity.

Then it's a problem. If Jesus didn't resurrect then he isn't the Christian God. If Jesus did resurrect then he is still the Bahai God so Bahais can be Christians, and if he did neither then the 'oldbadger' Jesus is just dust blowing in the wind, which is what I think has happened, w2here all the prophets go.

 

[oldbadger]

Yes I have an opinion. But see, you are not my dad to speak like you dictate terms especially with such poor knowledge and character.

Nothing there.
I didn't think there was.

You think that a polite question is dictating terms?
Silly post........

 

[firedragon]

Nothing there.
I didn't think there was.

You think that a polite question is dictating terms?
Silly post........

Great. Cheers.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I asked that from someone who had particular attitude in a sentence. I know that you won't know about who this "Akram Rasool" is but you don't have to. I asked that due to a proclamation of some kind of superior knowledge and a demeaning expression.

Hope you understand. Brother, respect deserves respect, but not everyone. Some deserve a return of their own defective medicine, like the blind cut and paste hate preachers. One must always respect others and their faiths and not just cut and paste hate preaching. I was showing that anyone can do "cut and paste jobs" which is a gutter game.

Nevertheless, I don't understand what you mean by "Conservative view" and "Liberal View" of Jesus. Are you referring to the technical term liberal or do you have another view? Please explain.

If you are referring to the technical term liberalism in theology I certainly think the Bahai's do not have a liberal conception but a very conservative, very traditional view of Jesus. Thats what I think but I could be wrong. I think the Bahai view of Jesus predates modern day Christianity, and also, in terms of Liberal Theology, Christians have moved beyond (some) Bahai's in the 20th century but they are a fringe group.

It may be helpful to recognise the Bab’s ministry dated 1844-1850 engaged a predominantly Persian Shi’a Islamic community whereas Bahá’u’lláh whose ministry was from 1852 to 1892 engaged a predominantly Muslim audience through the Ottoman Empire. It wasn’t until ‘Abdu’l-Bahá’s Ministry from 1892 to 1921 that a Western Christian community is engaged, particularly through his travels to Europe and North America before WWI. So through ‘Abdu’l-Bahá’s commentary, particularly in the early twentieth century we have a much more detailed assessment of Christian themes than the writings of either the Bab or Bahá’u’lláh.

 

[firedragon]

It may be helpful to recognise the Bab’s ministry dated 1844-1850 engaged a predominantly Persian Shi’a Islamic community whereas Bahá’u’lláh whose ministry was from 1852 to 1892 engaged a predominantly Muslim audience through the Ottoman Empire. It wasn’t until ‘Abdu’l-Bahá’s Ministry from 1892 to 1921 that a Western Christian community is engaged, particularly through his travels to Europe and North America before WWI. So through ‘Abdu’l-Bahá’s commentary, particularly in the early twentieth century we have a much more detailed assessment of Christian themes than the writings of either the Bab or Bahá’u’lláh.

I have missed something. How is your comment related to the post you responded to?

 

[Trailblazer]

I think the problem starts with Christ, spun in to being by Christians very early on, early enough for the very gospels to have 'evolved' or mutated from each other in to Christianity.

Now THAT I can certainly agree with!

Then it's a problem. If Jesus didn't resurrect then he isn't the Christian God. If Jesus did resurrect then he is still the Bahai God so Bahais can be Christians, and if he did neither then the 'oldbadger' Jesus is just dust blowing in the wind, which is what I think has happened, w2here all the prophets go.

The problem is that nobody can prove that Jesus resurrected and nobody can disprove it either.

Whether or not Jesus resurrected God is still the Baha'i God AND the Christian God and oldbadger's God, because there is only one God.

Why all the fuss about the resurrection then?

Because people BELIEVE it happened and if it didn't happen Christians would have to face the fact that Jesus is no different and no better than any other Messenger of God. Christians would be compelled to believe what Baha'is believe, that Jesus is is heaven hanging out with all the other Messengers at the right hand of God. Of course, that means the same Jesus cannot return to earth, so this is the essential problem for Christians, since they would then have to be looking for another man as the return of Christ, or give up the idea of the return altogether.

 

[Muffled]

Brother. It was. Maybe you are not aware. Just do a small research.

Thomas is out of the equation, but the epistle of Barnabas was, among a few other books. If you want I can name them and tell you where to find them in the Bible canon.

Peace.

I looked on Wikipedia and it said The Gospel of Barnabas was written in the 16th or 17th century. Not only that but it takes a non-Christian view of Christianity as Wkipedia says: "it conforms to the Islamic interpretation of Christian origins and contradicts the New Testament teachings of Christianity."

 

[Muffled]

Personally I see the Virgin Birth, the Title of Christ (Annointed One) and the Station of Son of God were all given of Jesus so we can clearly see that God's Manifestations are not born of the Flesh, that even though they appear to be men like us when born of a mother in this realm, they are not, they are of the Holy Spirit, they are One and All, the 'First and the Last' , the 'I Am'. All given of Allah.

As such if we had learnt that lesson, I wonder if more would have accepted Muhammad as a Messenger and would have Muslims been better prepared for this day knowing the Last is applicable to all God's Messengers and does not mean the end of the Messengers?

Time will be the only judge now.

I wish you and all well and happy in these times.

Regards Tony

I believe an incarnation is much more than a manifestation or a messenger.