Then that ties into what is also said in John 14:6.
The Quran is not irrelevant to me, as the Baha'i understanding of Jesus, also considers what the Quran has to offer about the Bible and Jesus.
Regards Tony
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Who is the Baha’i Jesus and how does He differ from the Christian Jesus?
- Thread starter Dawnofhope
- Start date
Then that ties into what is also said in John 14:6.
The Quran is not irrelevant to me, as the Baha'i understanding of Jesus, also considers what the Quran has to offer about the Bible and Jesus.
Regards Tony
firedragon
Veteran Member
Quran is irrelevant to the question about Christianity and the belief of Son of God. Irrelevant.
firedragon
Veteran Member
So that's a difference between the Bahai concept of Jesus and the Christian concept of Jesus.
Actually, Christians don’t believe Jesus was composed of the same biology as God. God doesn’t have an earthly biological nature.
That guy? Guy Beck?
Guy L. Beck is an assistant professor in the School of Continuing Studies at Tulane University and the editor of Alternative Krishnas: Regional and Vernacular Variations on a Hindu Deity and Sacred Sound: Experiencing Music in World Religions. Google Books
Born: 3 August 1948 (age 71 years), Manlius, New York, United States
Education: Syracuse University
Record label: STR Digital Records
Albums: Sacred Raga
Sorry he doesn't ring a bell
He isn't a renown anthropologist or historian.
He is a professor with a Ph.D based at a reputable university in the USA.
He is wearing blue [my fav color]
Krishna is blue also like Doctor Manhattan and the smurfs
Krishna having blue skin is pure mythology. What about Christian mythology?
Baha’is believe Both Moses and Krishna were historical. The point is we have no more evidence for Moses historicity than we do Krishna.
That is the problem with the word divinity - sometimes it refers to holiness and sometimes it refers to being a deity.
Then it is safe to conclude that the Baha'i faith regard Jesus Christ as God
And I am I right in saying, that the Jesus depicted by the mainstream Christianity [God the Son] is one and the same Jesus in the Baha'i Faith?
I have found out in the course of the many exchanges with people in this forum is they believe in different Jesuses - each are different from one Jesus to the next.
Nicene Jesus - invented in 325 AD Turkey
Muslim Jesus - invented in 7th century Mecca
Oneness Jesus - invented 1610 AD Holland
Jesus former Archangel Micheal now Mighty God - invented 1870 AD USA
Jesus one of the truine gods who visited North America - invented 1820 AD USA
Jesus Christ, as truly written in the Bible
We all have an image of Jesus that is imperfect in some way. However its the same Jesus, whether viewed with clarity or the distorted lens of our vain imagination.
Don't say 'scholars', say believers. And believers can believe in any kind of crap. First prove the existence of anything divine other than (see image).
What Bahais say is that Jesus and their Iranian preacher are at equal level. Both were puppets of the puppeteer and nothing more, and that they cannot understand how Mary could immaculately give birth to Jesus - that is a mystery.
Would you like to enlarge of this mystery, Adrian, whose seed was Jesus in the Bahai view, if he was not the son of Allah?
Baha’is uphold the mystery of the immaculate conception. Beyond that point, I have nothing further to add. Enjoy your meal!
Of course you would be concerned about Celcus!
A weeny bit biased?
People who write against Abrahamic faiths?....... wicked fellows all, demons, even. Maybe you see those who write against Bahai a little bit like that..... hiding behind their pseudonames...... ?
(I won't forget that....
Of course Christians banned his work and his name as much as possible.
Celcus was a reasonable scholar who did not believe in Christianity. Let's see:-
Conceding that Christians are not without success in business (infructuosi in negotiis), Celsus wants them to be good citizens, to retain their own belief but worship the emperors and join their fellow citizens in defending the empire.[27] It is an earnest and striking appeal on behalf of unity and mutual toleration. One of Celsus' most bitter complaints is of the refusal of Christians to cooperate with civil society, and their contempt for local customs and the ancient religions.
Celsus was whoever you want him to be. But we know little about him other that what is written in the Contra-Celsus.
firedragon
Veteran Member
True. Most of the heresies that we know of come from Church father's criticism of heresies. But they give so much information of what would have come to pass. But you're right. I have not studied the Celsus matter in any depth yet I do know that Nixey says the Christians made Celsus vanish into thin air. So all that is left is Origen's response which is pretty comprehensive.
Baha’is uphold the mystery of the immaculate conception. Beyond that point, I have nothing further to add. Enjoy your meal!
Hmm. Thats pretty interesting. I didn't know Bahai's accept the immaculate conception.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
I believe the focus is in Baha'i Faith's manifestation of God.
If Joseph Smith is another manifestation maybe we should discuss this most thoroughly.
Tendencies of manifestations is they seem to gather a lot of wives on the side.
@adrian009 is Mr. Joseph Smith included as one of the manifestations of God?
How many plural wives did Joseph Smith have? 40 wives
Mormon church polygamy: Joseph Smith 'had up to 40 wives' The Mormon church has said for the first time that its founder Joseph Smith had up to 40 wives. In an essay published on its website quoting "careful estimates", the church said the wives included a 14-year-old and others who were already married.Nov 12, 2014
Mormon church polygamy: Joseph Smith 'had up to 40 wives' - BBC ...
Did Joseph Smith have a 14 year old wife?
Helen Mar Kimball (August 22, 1828 – November 13, 1896) was one of at least 27 plural wives of Joseph Smith, founder of the Latter Day Saint movement. She was sealed in marriage to him when she was 14 years old. After his death when she was 16, she married Horace Whitney "for time," brother to another of Smith's wives.
Helen Mar Kimball - Wikipedia
Krishna has a lot of wives too. He had 8 wives and at least 16,000 junior wives.
Besides eight principal queens (Ashtabharya),[1] the Hindu god Krishna, an avatar of the god Vishnu in the Dwapara Yuga (epoch), is described to have many unnamed junior wives. Their number is mentioned as 16,000 or 16,108 in different scriptures. Krishna accepted them as his wives upon their insistence to save themselves from the society who saw them as slaves of the demon king Narakasura. The chief amongst them is sometimes called Rohini. When Krishna slew Narakasura, he accepted all the captive women upon their insistence to safeguard their dignity. After marriage, they all lived in Dwarka, in divine happiness.
Junior wives of Krishna - Wikipedia
There must be some connection with being a manifestation to one's libido?
Nobody can top that with 8 wives and 16,108 junior wives!
No wonder he turned blue.
His schedule is too busy 5 seconds for each woman!
Maybe in order to become a manifestation of God, we gotta have plenty of wives. Muhammad also had a couple of wives when he was alive.
One is a 9 year old?
Muhammad's wives, or the wives of Muhammad, were the women married to the Islamic prophet Muhammad. Muslims often use the term "Mothers of the Believers" prominently before or after referring to them as a sign of respect, a term derived from the Quran.[1][2]
Muhammad was monogamous for 25 years when married to his first wife, Khadija bint Khuwaylid. After her death in 619 CE, he over time married a number of women. His life is traditionally delineated by two epochs: pre-hijra (emigration) in Mecca, a city in western Arabia, from the year 570 to 622 CE, and post-hijra in Medina, from 622 until his death in 632. All but two of his marriages were contracted after the Hegira (or Hijra - migration to Medina).
Of his 13 wives, only two bore him children: Khadija and Maria al-Qibtiyya.
Muhammad's wives - Wikipedia
Isn't that pedophilia aside from being polygamous?
Maybe these are the things a man need to make him a manifestation.
It is important to add we don’t believe in the Catholic doctrine of the immaculate conception, simply Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus. The Catholic doctrine of the immaculate conception is tied up with the doctrine of original sin which Baha’is reject. In that sense the virgin birth is closer to Islam than Christianity.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Oh okay I understand. You are practically not talking about Immaculate Conception.
Immaculate conception has nothing to do with Mary being a virgin at Jesus's birth, and neither does it relate to Jesus or his miraculous virgin birth.
No
We don’t know how many wives Krishna had.
We don’t know how old Aisha was when she married Muhammad.
Many Jewish Prophets and Kings in the Bible had more than one wive. Polygamy wasn’t forbidden in the Bible. We’ve had this discussion before.
The Baha’i Faith is the only Abrahamic religion I know of that explicitly makes monogamy a Divine law.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
I am not interested in the wives of people who have claimed to be prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis.
My question is different.
I only point out that Joseph Smith claimed to be a saint / prophet and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed to be the Mahdi or 'The Returning Jesus'. Others also have made claims and none has given any evidence. That way, there are thousands of people in India who claim to be Gods / prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis, they also have not provided any evidence. I have read in Wikipedia that there were 1200 Iranians in jails who claimed to be mahdis before the revolution. There can be other people outside India today who also have made such claims. So, on what basis religions accept someone has a messenger etc. of God when none provides any evidence?
Krishna for me is mythology and not a historical person.
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MJFlores
Well-Known Member
We can Google it.
how many wives does krishna have
And these are the results:
eight
Number and names. Apart from his eight principal wives, Krishna is described to have married several thousand women, he rescued from the demon Narakasura.
Junior wives of Krishna - Wikipedia
Who are the 8 wives of Krishna?
This book sheds light on how Lord Krishna married these eight women an in what conditions. Their names were - Rukmini, Jambavanti, Satyabhama, Kalindi, Mitravinda, Nagnajiti, Bhadra devi, Lakshana.
Ashtamahishi: The Eight Wives of Krishna: Amazon.in: Radha ...
Again like Brit comedian / host John Oliver says
How old was Aisha when she married Muhammad Islamqa?
Critics allege that Aisha was just six years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad, himself in his 50s, and only nine when the marriage was consummated.Sep 17, 2012
The truth about Muhammad and Aisha | Myriam François-Cerrah ...
Bukhari 6:298. Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to fondle me.
https://hadith.wwpa.com/page/bukhari-6-298#:~:text=Home-,Bukhari 6:298,and used to fondle me.
Bukhari 6:298 - Hadith
Genesis 2:24 New International Version (NIV)
That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
Please take note the bible says: the man is united to his wife [not wives]
Ephesians 5:33 New International Version (NIV)
However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
Again the bible says his wife [not his wives] as he loves himself and the wife must respect her husband [not husbands]
The bible do prohibit polygamy.
Because if it doesn't ...
I could not help you on this. I'm not a Mormon.
For me a messenger must have proof beyond reasonable doubt and he holds the truth - verifiable and indisputable. He must be accompanied by unnatural events - predicted, written and fulfilled as a mark of his commissioning.
there are good examples of these in the Bible and one is....
Sometime around 7th century before Christ, Isaiah wrote:
Isaiah 40:3 New International Version (NIV)
A voice of one calling:
“In the wilderness prepare
the way for the Lord;
make straight in the desert
a highway for our God.
600 years or so later...
Matthew 3:1-4 New International Version (NIV)
In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.” This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah:
“A voice of one calling in the wilderness,
‘Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for him.’”
John’s clothes were made of camel’s hair, and he had a leather belt around his waist. His food was locusts and wild honey.
My thought is that It is not irrelevant to the topic being discussed.
Maybe that is the main reason that the Baha’i Jesus differs from the Christian Jesus, is that we have guidance that balances what is said in the Bible and the Quran with what the Baha'i Writings also offer about Jesus.
It can then be considered that we can see the subject in a new way and that no amount of study of how it has been seen in tha past, will give that new vision.
Regards Tony
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https://reference.bahai.org/en/t/se/PDC/pdc-28.html
Exactly.
Baha’i Jesus is based on an understanding of four sets of scriptures, Baha’i, Islamic, Christian, and Jewish. The Christian Jesus is based on an understanding of just the Christian and Jewish scriptures.
Maybe some choose to consider God impregnated Mary, but I doubt they have yet considered their faith in depth.
I see most Christains would not think God is the biological Father of Jesus. It seems important to you though, as you asked me many times after I said a see it in a Spiritual way. Do you have a reason to share?
I can say when I read the Bible I am in no way looking for a material story, I am looking for what it is to be a spiritual being and that is also how I read the Quran and any religious scripture. Look beyond the outward meaning to discover the pearls of wisdom that lay in the depths.
Regards Tony
Well the Bible has good guidance with that question and it says by their fruits you shall know them.
A good tree produces good fruit, when it stops producing fruit, , God prunes it as required and when it's day is done, God sends a storm and blows it over. Meanwhile the Gardener has planted another tree to which is nurtured until the fruiting season.
I see we are in a world where the new Tree is just about to give its first big crop.
Regards Tony