Who is the Baha’i Jesus and how does He differ from the Christian Jesus?

[Dawnofhope]

We can Google it.
how many wives does krishna have
And these are the results:

eight

Number and names. Apart from his eight principal wives, Krishna is described to have married several thousand women, he rescued from the demon Narakasura.

Junior wives of Krishna - Wikipedia


Who are the 8 wives of Krishna?
This book sheds light on how Lord Krishna married these eight women an in what conditions. Their names were - Rukmini, Jambavanti, Satyabhama, Kalindi, Mitravinda, Nagnajiti, Bhadra devi, Lakshana.

Ashtamahishi: The Eight Wives of Krishna: Amazon.in: Radha ...

Earlier in the thread you claim Krishna is mythology and question His historicity. Now you are telling me to believe everything I read on the internet.

An understanding of Jesus is based entirely on Gospel accounts that record Him have been conceived from the Holy Spirit, born to the Virgin Mary, titled the Son of God, equated with God Himself, risen from the dead and ascended through the stratosphere to be with His Father in heaven.

Similarly an understanding of Krishna is based on the Vedas l, particularly the Gita and Puranas. However the Puranas are heavily mythologised as most Hindus would recognise. The Hare Krishnas are a small subset of those who believe in Krishna and like some Christians tend to take their scriptures more literally.

However its off topic.

Again like Brit comedian / host John Oliver says

How old was Aisha when she married Muhammad Islamqa?

Critics allege that Aisha was just six years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad, himself in his 50s, and only nine when the marriage was consummated.Sep 17, 2012
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/sep/17/muhammad-aisha-truth
The truth about Muhammad and Aisha | Myriam François-Cerrah ...

Bukhari 6:298. Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to fondle me.

Bukhari 6:298 - Hadith

The Hadiths are notoriously unreliable when it comes to historical information, even those written by al-Bukhari.

Criticism of hadith - Wikipedia

Aisha was one of the outstanding Islamic women of her day.

However it looks like the uglier side of Christian apologetics and completely off topic.

Genesis 2:24 New International Version (NIV)
That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

Please take note the bible says: the man is united to his wife [not wives]

Ephesians 5:33 New International Version (NIV)
However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Again the bible says his wife [not his wives] as he loves himself and the wife must respect her husband [not husbands]

The bible do prohibit polygamy.

Because if it doesn't ...

None of those verses you quote explicitly forbid polygamy.

Once again, totally off topic.

Start another thread if you want to talk about Krishna, create a platform for Christian apologetics against Islam or argue the Christian Bible forbade polygamy.

 

[MJFlores]

Earlier in the thread you claim Krishna is mythology and question His historicity. Now you are telling me to believe everything I read on the internet.

Yes indeed I questioned his historicity earlier.
However since you insist he is historical, I will give you the benefit of the doubt.
Assuming he is true, I searched why he is blue - bluer than blue.

And I found out that he allegedly had 8 wives and over 16,000 consorts [junior wives]
The poor guy must have been panting all the time and gasping for air with the many women he has to please.
And since this is Hindu, this must be the source why they conceptualized Kama Sutra most likely because of Krishna. Is this promiscuity or something?
Is this manifestation a good role model?

Well we have to verify and ask around than simply reading, don't we?

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Indian spiritual teacher

Abhay Charanaravinda Bhaktivedanta Swami, born Abhay Charan De, was an Indian spiritual teacher and the founder-preceptor of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, commonly known as the "Hare Krishna Movement". Wikipedia
Born: September 1896, Kolkata, India
Died: 14 November 1977, Vrindavan, India
Full name: Abhay Charan De
Temple: Gaudiya Math, ISKCON
Spouse: Radharani Devi (m. 1918)

So this guy is very Indian and the founder of Hare Krishna Movement. Krishna is the organization's middle name - so to speak, so they know Krishna. He is not some American-Indian migrant who earned some Ph D and teaching Indian music in a well reputed US University.

So if he said Krishna is this then Krishna is that - he is one of the big daddy in the Krishna business.

The Hadiths are notoriously unreliable when it comes to historical information, even those written by al-Bukhari.

Criticism of hadith - Wikipedia

Aisha was one of the outstanding Islamic women of her day.

However it looks like the uglier side of Christian apologetics and completely off topic.

Nevertheless, it was written by his 6 to 9 year old bride.

Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī (Arabic: صحيح البخاري‎) is one of the Kutub al-Sittah (six major hadith collections) of Sunni Islam. Whereas, out of all these six major books, the collection of prophetic traditions, or hadith for Sahih al-Bukhari, was performed by the Muslim scholar Muhammad al-Bukhari. It was completed around 846 CE / 232 AH. Sunni Muslims view this as one of the two most trusted collections of hadith along with Sahih Muslim.[1][2] The Arabic word sahih translates as authentic or correct.[3] Sahih al-Bukhari, together with Sahih Muslim is known as Sahihayn.
Sahih al-Bukhari - Wikipedia

Bukhari (93:639) - The Prophet of Islam would recite the 'Holy Qur'an' with his head in Aisha's lap, when she was menstruating. ... He (the Prophet) said: Rush up, Ali, and inflict the prescribed punishment on her. I then hurried up, and saw that blood was flowing from her, and did not stop.

A manifestation?
Are polygamy and pedophilia, ingredients for being a manifestation?
Are these good deeds or bad ones?

None of those verses you quote explicitly forbid polygamy.

Once again, totally off topic.

You declared that the Bible does not prohibit polygamy
I just replied otherwise.

With the exception of King David and King Solomon who erred in taking in more than one wives, I believe the rest had one wives.

Nehemiah 13:26 New International Version (NIV)
Was it not because of marriages like these that Solomon king of Israel sinned? Among the many nations there was no king like him. He was loved by his God, and God made him king over all Israel, but even he was led into sin by foreign women.

According to the biblical account, Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines. The wives were described as foreign princesses, including Pharaoh's daughter and women of Moab, Ammon, Edom, Sidon and of the Hittites.

Therefore the Bible prohibits polygamy.
I believe Christian countries does not allow polygamous marriages [unless you can show me one]
However many Islamic countries do allow polygamous marriages and some Christian countries accomodate polygamous marriages if the parties are Muslim.
Legality of polygamy - Wikipedia

The manifestation had 13 wives and his male followers are entitled to 4.
At least they think that the manifestation is a good role model, don't they?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I see we are in a world where the new Tree is just about to give its first big crop.

The result is a religion which cannot keep itself in its pants, will find fault with all other religions, disrespect their founders, and then talk of peace. It is just a weed and not a tree which can give fruit.

Similarly an understanding of Krishna is based on the Vedas, particularly the Gita and Puranas. However the Puranas are heavily mythologised as most Hindus would recognise.

This is just to inform you that Vedas do not mention Krishna. Krishna is not an Aryan God. Krishna is an indigenous Hindu God.

 

[firedragon]

I see most Christains would not think God is the biological Father of Jesus. It seems important to you though, as you asked me many times after I said a see it in a Spiritual way. Do you have a reason to share?

Yes. The reason is brother, an objective response to the OP. But your response was sound.

 

[firedragon]

My thought is that It is not irrelevant to the topic being discussed.

Maybe that is the main reason that the Baha’i Jesus differs from the Christian Jesus, is that we have guidance that balances what is said in the Bible and the Quran with what the Baha'i Writings also offer about Jesus.

It can then be considered that we can see the subject in a new way and that no amount of study of how it has been seen in tha past, will give that new vision.

Regards Tony

When discussing the Christian belief about Jesus, the Quran is irrelevant. Not the whole topic.

 

[MJFlores]

The Muslim concept of the Lord Jesus Christ is quite interesting in a sort of way.

Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia).

The Quran denies Jesus is the son of God in several verses, including one (Q.5:116) quoting Jesus as denying he is the son of God.

According to the Quran, he was neither crucified nor raised from the dead, but rather was saved by God.

(Although the earliest Islamic traditions and exegesis quote somewhat conflicting reports regarding a death and its length, most Muslims believe that Jesus only appeared to be crucified and was instead raised alive to heaven)

What does the Bible teaches about Jesus Christ?

The Bible teaches that Christ as the Son of God:

“And when the centurion, who stood there in front of Jesus, heard his cry and saw how he died, he said, ‘Surely THIS MAN WAS THE SON OF GOD!’” (Mark 15:39, NIV, emphasis mine).

The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ as our Lord:

“So, all the people of Israel should know this truly: GOD HAS MADE JESUS — THE MAN YOU NAILED TO THE CROSS — BOTH LORD AND CHRIST.” (Acts 2:36, New Century Version, emphasis mine)

The Bible teaches that as our Savior:

“The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had murdered by hanging Him on a tree. GOD EXALTED THIS MAN TO HIS RIGHT HAND AS RULER AND SAVIOR, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.” (Acts 5:30-31, Holman Christian Standard Bible, emphasis mine)

The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ as the Mediator between man and the one true God:

“For there is one God and ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MEN, THE MAN CHRIST JESUS” (I Timothy 2:5, NIV, emphasis mine)

Because we believe that there is only one true God, the Father, thus, Jesus is not the true God, but the Son of the one true God. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself explicitly proclaimed that the father alone is the true God and He is the Son of the one true God, whom the Father has sent:

“Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You...
“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” (John 17:1,3 NKJV)

To attain eternal life is to believe that the Father is the only true God, and Jesus is the one sent by the one true God. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself attests that He is indeed a man in nature:

“As it is, you are determined to kill me, A MAN WHO HAS TOLD YOU THE TRUTH that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things.” (John 8:40 NIV, emphasis mine).

The Bible clearly tells us that “God is not man” and “man is not God”:

“I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: FOR I AM GOD, AND NOT MAN; the Holy One in the midst of thee; and I will not come in wrath.” (Hosea 11:9 ASV, emphasis mine)

“Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyre, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Because thy heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a god, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet THOU ART MAN, AND NOT GOD, though thou didst set thy heart as the heart of God.” (Ezekiel 28:2 ASV, emphasis mine)

Thus, the Bible reject the teaching that Christ is God.

Conclusion:

The Qumran was compiled at 610 AD - more or less six hundred years after Jesus Christ hence it is not a timely account of things.

1. Christ is the Son of God contrary to what the Qumran wrongly teaches.
2. Christ was murdered and hanged on a cross contrary to what the Qumran wrongly teaches

 

[CG Didymus]

I see as a Baha'i I do not lose that version, I just see it differently as I offer it.

I see it in a spiritual way. Thus when I say Jesus was born of Mary, I also see that he is born of the Holy Spirit which is not of man. I see that the life of Jesus was a sacrafice so that we could find our spiritual selves, to be born again and that was shown in His sacrafice.

Big topic you have raise though.

Regards Tony

What do Baha'is believe is the reason the people cried out for Jesus to be crucified?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What do Baha'is believe is the reason the people cried out for Jesus to be crucified?

People do not like change. They trust people they should not trust and cannot put their trust where is needs to be placed.

I gained these thoughts by seeing how normal people can be spured on to become helpers of the tyrants, to commit acts so horrendous, that it boggles the mind. Maybe they do it to suppress their fear for the tyrant, by becoming one themselves?

The tourtues carried out by the general Persian village and town populations, on those that became Babi, are sickening as they were in the times of Jesus the Christ.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

It seems that the Bahai Jesus, like the Bahai Muhammad, Bahai Moses and all the other Bahai prophets is a Bahai problem.

Bahai is an Abrahamic Faith, needs to erect itself upon the foundations of all those other religions if it is to appear genuine. If they fall, it falls!

But it doesn't particularly like their whole packages. Bahai wants to agree with them or it falls down, so it 'sort of' agrees with them and hopes that folks will climb over all the other Abrahamic religious to ......... Bahai!

It's no good.......... Bahai needs to be more honest about....... Bahai beliefs.

More honest? Why after all this time is it not perfectly clear who the Baha'i Jesus is? Do we keep getting mixed messages? Was he God? No. Is accepting his sacrifice the only way for people to have their sins forgiven? No. What about the alleged miracles? Walk on water and turn water into wine? What do Baha'is say? I know for some miracles they take as symbolic. Like saying Jesus healed the "spiritually" blind. Or, he raised the "spiritually" dead. And Jesus himself was "symbolically" raised from the dead. Did the Baha'i Jesus conquer death and Satan? No.

After reading a little bit about "liberal" Christianity, it seems that their concept of Jesus lines up very well with the Baha'i Jesus, except the Baha'is do believe Jesus was born of a virgin. But who is that Jesus? The King of the Jews? The Messiah? Or, just a real nice guy, that taught others about being kind and loving to one another? Why would he have to be a "manifestation" to do that?

But the Baha'i Jesus was a manifestation and supposedly brought with him new social laws and teachings. Then there is that Christian Jesus that most people are familiar with. He was a miracle worker. He rose from the dead. He is the Messiah. And is coming back.... And is the only way to God. For any other religion to even be partially correct, we can't have that Jesus as the true Jesus. The "nice" guy Jesus... and maybe a couple of miracles is all we can accept.

 

[firedragon]

What do Baha'is believe is the reason the people cried out for Jesus to be crucified?

Bahai's actually believe the Bible has the historical narrative to be taken.

 

[CG Didymus]

People do not like change. They trust people they should not trust and cannot put their trust where is needs to be placed.

I gained these thoughts by seeing how normal people can be spured on to become helpers of the tyrants, to commit acts so horrendous, that it boggles the mind. Maybe they do it to suppress their fear for the tyrant, by becoming one themselves?

The tourtues carried out by the general Persian village and town populations, on those that became Babi, are sickening as they were in the times of Jesus the Christ.

Regards Tony

I'm not going to look it up, but I think he was accused of blasphemy by the Jewish leaders. They were not allowed to punish him, so they had to turn him over to the Roman authorities. At least I think that is what the NT says, but who amongst believes everything we read in it.

 

[firedragon]

Nevertheless, it was written by his 6 to 9 year old bride.

Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī (Arabic: صحيح البخاري‎) is one of the Kutub al-Sittah (six major hadith collections) of Sunni Islam. Whereas, out of all these six major books, the collection of prophetic traditions, or hadith for Sahih al-Bukhari, was performed by the Muslim scholar Muhammad al-Bukhari. It was completed around 846 CE / 232 AH. Sunni Muslims view this as one of the two most trusted collections of hadith along with Sahih Muslim.[1][2] The Arabic word sahih translates as authentic or correct.[3] Sahih al-Bukhari, together with Sahih Muslim is known as Sahihayn.
Sahih al-Bukhari - Wikipedia

Bukhari (93:639) - The Prophet of Islam would recite the 'Holy Qur'an' with his head in Aisha's lap, when she was menstruating. ... He (the Prophet) said: Rush up, Ali, and inflict the prescribed punishment on her. I then hurried up, and saw that blood was flowing from her, and did not stop.

I think it is a big need for people to be irrelevant because of the need to make a famous case true even if you don't know head or tail of it. Its a serious need, that's why even grown up people find it difficult to stay to the topic.

Anyway, with relevance just down the drain, can you tell me why you trust Muslims so much for historical information? You just take their word at face value? Do you trust all Muslims to that level? Thats the argument you have given for the authenticity of this ahadith.

You have said 'it was written by his 6 to 9 year old bride". Can you provide some evidence to your claim other than the fact that you just trust Muslims like God?

 

[CG Didymus]

Bahai's actually believe the Bible has the historical narrative to be taken.

About why Jesus was crucified?

 

[firedragon]

About why Jesus was crucified?

Yes. That too. Yet, I am no authority for the Bahai's except elementary knowledge so specifics about their beliefs about the New Testament should be clarified with a Bahai. Said with all due respect.

 

[MJFlores]

Anyway, with relevance just down the drain, can you tell me why you trust Muslims so much for historical information? You just take their word at face value? Do you trust all Muslims to that level? Thats the argument you have given for the authenticity of this ahadith.

You have said 'it was written by his 6 to 9 year old bride". Can you provide some evidence to your claim other than the fact that you just trust Muslims like God?

If Muslims would write information about themselves, then why should that be doubted?
They know themselves better than anybody.
If they say 2 hadiths out of 6 are reliable then it must be true.
Contrary to a non Muslim who would say all hadiths are unreliable.

If the information comes from the mouth of a Muslim or a former Muslim
Then I am all ears, unless a new credible information comes about to refute such.
So if one ex-Muslim who is also a Turk would say "You know Muhammad is this and that."
What would be my reaction?

He got my attention.
Maybe it is true or maybe not.

If this is the kind of founder a religion has, then what good could come out of it?

 

[oldbadger]

More honest? Why after all this time is it not perfectly clear who the Baha'i Jesus is? Do we keep getting mixed messages? Was he God? No. Is accepting his sacrifice the only way for people to have their sins forgiven? No. What about the alleged miracles? Walk on water and turn water into wine? What do Baha'is say? I know for some miracles they take as symbolic. Like saying Jesus healed the "spiritually" blind. Or, he raised the "spiritually" dead. And Jesus himself was "symbolically" raised from the dead. Did the Baha'i Jesus conquer death and Satan? No.

After reading a little bit about "liberal" Christianity, it seems that their concept of Jesus lines up very well with the Baha'i Jesus, except the Baha'is do believe Jesus was born of a virgin. But who is that Jesus? The King of the Jews? The Messiah? Or, just a real nice guy, that taught others about being kind and loving to one another? Why would he have to be a "manifestation" to do that?

But the Baha'i Jesus was a manifestation and supposedly brought with him new social laws and teachings. Then there is that Christian Jesus that most people are familiar with. He was a miracle worker. He rose from the dead. He is the Messiah. And is coming back.... And is the only way to God. For any other religion to even be partially correct, we can't have that Jesus as the true Jesus. The "nice" guy Jesus... and maybe a couple of miracles is all we can accept.

Bahais could learn more by visiting extreme and then progresive Christian forums and voicing these tenets.
Then they would learn how distant they can be from some Christians!
In the more progressive Churches Bahais will be viewed as very prejudiced, in the extremist Churches Bahais will be treated to the most vicious insults for these same tenets.
The Bahai Jesus is a Bahai 'sell' of sorts, I think.

 

[firedragon]

If Muslims would write information about themselves, then why should that be doubted?

Haha. So you are saying and proclaiming that you value Muslim stories because Muslims wrote about themselves? Is that your standard of validation mate? Do you know that you are more of a fanatical muslim worshiper than any Muslim in the world?

Super answer. Excellent.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Nevertheless, it was written by his 6 to 9 year old bride.

Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī (Arabic: صحيح البخاري‎) is one of the Kutub al-Sittah (six major hadith collections) of Sunni Islam. Whereas, out of all these six major books, the collection of prophetic traditions, or hadith for Sahih al-Bukhari, was performed by the Muslim scholar Muhammad al-Bukhari. It was completed around 846 CE / 232 AH. Sunni Muslims view this as one of the two most trusted collections of hadith along with Sahih Muslim.[1][2] The Arabic word sahih translates as authentic or correct.[3] Sahih al-Bukhari, together with Sahih Muslim is known as Sahihayn.
Sahih al-Bukhari - Wikipedia

Baha’is recognise the Shi’a view as being more authentic, not Sunni. Shi’a Muslims see no Hadiths as being 100% authentic as opposed to the Sunni view you have shared. Do you know the difference between Sunni and Shi’a Islam? Your criticism of Islam using Sunni sources makes as much sense as me quoting Catholic catechisms and telling stories about badly behaved Popes to criticise your view of Christianity.

 

[firedragon]

If Muslims would write information about themselves, then why should that be doubted?
They know themselves better than anybody.
If they say 2 hadiths out of 6 are reliable then it must be true.
Contrary to a non Muslim who would say all hadiths are unreliable.

If the information comes from the mouth of a Muslim or a former Muslim
Then I am all ears, unless a new credible information comes about to refute such.
So if one ex-Muslim who is also a Turk would say "You know Muhammad is this and that."
What would be my reaction?

He got my attention.
Maybe it is true or maybe not.

If this is the kind of founder a religion has, then what good could come out of it?

You know seriously, if your aim is to spread bit of hatred and not engage a topic with relevance, why don't you open your own thread to do that mate?

 

[MJFlores]

Haha. So you are saying and proclaiming that you value Muslim stories because Muslims wrote about themselves? Is that your standard of validation mate? Do you know that you are more of a fanatical muslim worshiper than any Muslim in the world?

Super answer. Excellent.

Muslims know themselves than any other.
Why would I believe a non Muslim man n when he writes Muslim things?

Fanaticism is following something one is unsure of.
Fanaticism is following a religion when one knows its totally fake.
Fanaticism is not understanding why one has to do it.


Isaiah 44:13-20 New International Version (NIV)
The carpenter measures with a line
and makes an outline with a marker;
he roughs it out with chisels
and marks it with compasses.

He shapes it in human form,
human form in all its glory,
that it may dwell in a shrine.
He cut down cedars,
or perhaps took a cypress or oak.
He let it grow among the trees of the forest,
or planted a pine, and the rain made it grow.

It is used as fuel for burning;
some of it he takes and warms himself,
he kindles a fire and bakes bread.
But he also fashions a god and worships it;
he makes an idol and bows down to it.

Half of the wood he burns in the fire;
over it he prepares his meal,
he roasts his meat and eats his fill.
He also warms himself and says,
“Ah! I am warm; I see the fire.”

From the rest he makes a god, his idol;
he bows down to it and worships.
He prays to it and says,
“Save me! You are my god!”
They know nothing, they understand nothing;
their eyes are plastered over so they cannot see,
and their minds closed so they cannot understand.
No one stops to think,
no one has the knowledge or understanding to say,
“Half of it I used for fuel;
I even baked bread over its coals,
I roasted meat and I ate.

Shall I make a detestable thing from what is left?
Shall I bow down to a block of wood?”
Such a person feeds on ashes; a deluded heart misleads him;
he cannot save himself, or say,
“Is not this thing in my right hand a lie?”

So it is important to know and understand - is the religion are we in genuinely from God or is it a lie?
If one goes ahead with the lie - then that is fanaticism.
That would be a great waste of time and money.