who is the founder of christianity Jesus or Paul ?

[sojourner]

For several decades after Jesus's death Christianity was still regarded as a strand of Judaism and developed in the synagogue.

No. Paul was actively preaching to Gentiles about 18 months following the Jesus Event. In fact, the Eucharist -- probably the most ancient and "original" sacramental act, was directly modeled on the Roman symposium -- not synagogue practice.

Over time Christians grew apart from other Jews and actively distanced themselves from them, thanks to various factors related to the politics of the age.

Actually, the Jews forced the Christians out of the synagogues.

 

[sojourner]

I agree with you that anyone who is part of any religion calling itself Christian actually is not Christian, and Jesus NEVER started any church or religion. He started Christianity. He started NO religion. He called it the one true faith. Most who are part of Christendom, which is a religion claiming Christianity falsely, think Jesus is God, which he is not. They believe in a trinity, which is a pagan belief. Jesus condemned any religion with clergy, a church, and their own teachings differing from the scriptures and what Jesus taught. He said they were false, and were "works of the flesh". Revelation to John indicates that all such religions will be wiped from the Earth along with all of their participants, in the final battle. Christianity is belief that God IS, and that Jesus sacrificed his life for our sins, and that the scriptures are the only true doctrine. He said clergy were seeking only their own glory, and were not seeking glory for God.

A baseless judgment rendered from a biased and surface reading of the texts, with little connection to reality.

 

[sojourner]

Xianity is more than just the 'words' in the Bible, Jesus's or otherwise. A similar statement would be like, 'I don't think Jews are following the OT to the letter, so they aren't practicing Judaism.'

Absolutely, because Xy wrote the NT and created the bible.

 

[sojourner]

But I would clarify how this early Judaism was not even really Judaism. At best it was Judaism light.

Correct. The "Judaism" of Jesus' time wasn't at all Judaism as we know it today.

Christendom does not follow what the scriptures teach.

Yes. It does.

Christianity, which is not religions created by man, nor is it a sect or denomination, DOES follow the scriptures, and is a way of life. No religion of Christendom is a way of life whatsoever. They do not do the entire will of God. Christians do.

As I've said before, you're creating a false distinction, whose roots are firmly in the Pietism of the Reformation. There is no such distinction in reality.

Face it, sects/denominations are FALSE RELIGION.

Face it: the Movement has always had "denominations," since every community was distinct and different. Paul had to represent some of them in the Council of Jerusalem, just 17 years after Jesus' death.

 

[sojourner]

I'm not saying that Christians aren't practicing Christianity. Christianity, to me, is whatever Christians teach. And as far as I'm concerned, anybody who says they're a Christian is a Christian. They can argue among themselves all they like over which of them are the real Christians. Whether today's Christians believe anything that Christians of the first century believed (very unlikely, in my judgment) is beside the point.

Now this is a lucid opinion based in reality.

 

[sojourner]

Well, I hope you are aware that interpretation varies.

Not to him, it doesn't. Anything that differs from his interpretation (which he doesn't recognize as interpretation) is false.

And frankly, if I were following the literal NT, I don't think we would be agreeing on much more than we are now.

Correct.

 

[sojourner]

That's strange. It's like ordering dinner in a restaurant and not ordering anything specific, just a meal. Who knows what you'll get. It may not even be food.

Most restaurants utilize a varied menu in order to accommodate differing tastes. If a restaurant is good at what it does, it prospers. What you'd like to see is a hot-dog cart. Most hot-dog carts don't see a lot of success. Even McDonald's recognized that "selling hamburgers" wasn't that profitable and expanded their menu. In fact, the success of McDonald's wasn't based on hamburger-frying, but on milkshake-making.

 

[godnotgod]

And as far as I'm concerned, anybody who says they're a Christian is a Christian.

Anyone who accepts Jesus Christ as their lord and savior is a Christian.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

yes i would like to know who was the founder of christianity? and if its Jesus why are christians not observing yom kippur and other jewish religious festivals that the man himself obviously did, if its Paul how did his idea of christianity take over the apostles version in particular James the just.

I don't think that it can be argued against that Paul is obviously the founder of the church and is the only one that we have strong evidences for. It can be argued that Jesus was what inspired Paul but I don't think one could say Paul was not a founder.

 

[godnotgod]

And you shouldn't. You should, if you wanted to know the truth of the matter, check the scriptures to see if it's true.

The interpretations vary, depending on the degree of mental/spiritual growth of the reader. This is backwards. As Jesus said:

'You search the scriptures for eternal life, but it is I to whom the scriptures refer.'

The mind must first be awakened and transformed via spiritual experience. Then you will know how to read the scriptures. The spiritual experience is beyond the kind of thinking of the ordinary conditioned mind.

 

[truthofscripture]

Correct. The "Judaism" of Jesus' time wasn't at all Judaism as we know it today.

Yes. It does.

As I've said before, you're creating a false distinction, whose roots are firmly in the Pietism of the Reformation. There is no such distinction in reality.

Face it: the Movement has always had "denominations," since every community was distinct and different. Paul had to represent some of them in the Council of Jerusalem, just 17 years after Jesus' death.

No, religions DO NOT TEACH WHAT THE SCRIPTURES TEACH, they only teach bits and pieces and they change what they do teach about them.
I am not creating a FALSE distinction. Pietism of the Reformation? That has NOTHING to do with God's inspired word or teachings at all. That has to do with RELIGION.
"The movement", as you call it, has NEVER HAD DENOMINATIONS. Jesus taught that such sects/denominations are false religion. Any straying from the one true faith and God's inspired word is "works of the flesh", a sin, and a sure fire way of gaining God's displeasure. Paul NEVER represented any sects/denominations EVER. You are making that up out of thin air.
Stop trying to justify your learning which stems from religions and men. None of that is truthful. They all teach different things than what the scriptures teach. So you've spent 30 years learning them, you've still learned things OTHER THAN THE TRUTH OF THE SCRIPTURES. Nothing can change that, and none of your whining about it can change it either. Facts are facts. Religions are false, and false translations stem from paganism. False religions also stem from paganism, which in itself stems from Satan.

 

[Vishvavajra]

The irony of the sola scriptura position is that the idea that the Bible is of supernatural origin, the direct Word of God, contains absolute truth, etc., is a religious doctrine that is not found anywhere in the scriptures. It's just the most obvious example of how people who think they're reading the scriptures with no influence from religious doctrines and theories are just unaware of their own biases and where their ideas are coming from.

And that's not even getting into how the scriptures are themselves the products of centuries of religious doctrine, tradition, etc. They didn't just spring up out of thin air one day, divorced from all historical context and systems of human thought, nor do they predate the religious cultures that created them. If all religions are necessarily corrupt and decadent, then it follows that all scriptures must be too.

 

[truthofscripture]

The irony of the sola scriptura position is that the idea that the Bible is of supernatural origin, the direct Word of God, contains absolute truth, etc., is a religious doctrine that is not found anywhere in the scriptures. It's just the most obvious example of how people who think they're reading the scriptures with no influence from religious doctrines and theories are just unaware of their own biases and where their ideas are coming from.

And that's not even getting into how the scriptures are themselves the products of centuries of religious doctrine, tradition, etc. They didn't just spring up out of thin air one day, divorced from all historical context and systems of human thought, nor do they predate the religious cultures that created them. If all religions are necessarily corrupt and decadent, then it follows that all scriptures must be too.

Actually, the direct statements that the word of God is inspired by Him are contained within the scriptures themselves, and statements exist within the scriptures saying that they are the absolute truth are also contained therein. As far as it being a "religious" doctrine, no. The scriptures condemn religions. Religious doctrine is in opposition to the scriptures, and the scriptures are in opposition to religions. The scriptures are in no way the product of any religious doctrine or tradition whatsoever. The scriptures DO predate religions. Religions are corrupt and false. The inspired word of God is not corrupt. Religions, and God oppose eachother. The teaching that they do not oppose eachother is false and only comes from religions. Religions had NO PART in the creation of the scriptures.

 

[leibowde84]

yes i would like to know who was the founder of christianity? and if its Jesus why are christians not observing yom kippur and other jewish religious festivals that the man himself obviously did, if its Paul how did his idea of christianity take over the apostles version in particular James the just.

Chris·ti·an·i·ty
ˌkrisCHēˈanədē/
noun

1. the religion based on the person and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, or its beliefs and practices.

It's got to be Paul, as Jesus couldn't have based a church on himself. The Christian (or Catholic/Universal) Church did not begin until after Jesus' death. And, Jesus certainly died a Jew. So, to say that he was the founder/first-member of the Church seems in error.

 

[truthofscripture]

Chris·ti·an·i·ty
ˌkrisCHēˈanədē/
noun

1. the religion based on the person and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, or its beliefs and practices.

It's got to be Paul, as Jesus couldn't have based a church on himself. The Christian (or Catholic/Universal) Church did not begin until after Jesus' death. And, Jesus certainly died a Jew. So, to say that he was the founder/first-member of the Church seems in error.

Jesus taught "the one true faith", not a church or religion. It was Jesus, sent by his Father, to end the law covenant, and to make a new covenant with holy spirit annointed Christians. 144,000 of them to be exact. They were to teach others about the one true faith so that they may live forever in a paradise Earth where only the righteous would live. All those not righteous would be eliminated for opposing God the Almighty, after two thousand years of teaching and warning them. They're STILL being warned, and still refuse to be a part of that one true faith. Religions "claiming" to be Christian are lying. No man made religion is Christian, and the Catholic church IS a man made religion, as are all sects/denominations. It's important to note that not one word exists in the true inspired word of God whereby Jesus created a church, much less the Catholic Church. It was a creation of Emperor Constantine, who was the head of ALL pagan religions of his day. He began the Roman church, which was the new "state religion" for his subjects. It was, less than a hundred years later, renamed the Roman Catholic Church, from which stem almost all other sects/denominations. Galations says all sects are "works of the flesh", and produce no "fruitage of the spirit".

 

[leibowde84]

Jesus taught "the one true faith", not a church or religion. It was Jesus, sent by his Father, to end the law covenant, and to make a new covenant with holy spirit annointed Christians. 144,000 of them to be exact. They were to teach others about the one true faith so that they may live forever in a paradise Earth where only the righteous would live. All those not righteous would be eliminated for opposing God the Almighty, after two thousand years of teaching and warning them. They're STILL being warned, and still refuse to be a part of that one true faith. Religions "claiming" to be Christian are lying. No man made religion is Christian, and the Catholic church IS a man made religion, as are all sects/denominations. It's important to note that not one word exists in the true inspired word of God whereby Jesus created a church, much less the Catholic Church. It was a creation of Emperor Constantine, who was the head of ALL pagan religions of his day. He began the Roman church, which was the new "state religion" for his subjects. It was, less than a hundred years later, renamed the Roman Catholic Church, from which stem almost all other sects/denominations. Galations says all sects are "works of the flesh", and produce no "fruitage of the spirit".

How do you explain what is stated below?

Matthew 5:17-18
17"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.18"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.…

 

[truthofscripture]

How do you explain what is stated below?

Matthew 5:17-18
17"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.18"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.…

How do I explain what? the fact that Jesus FULFILLED the law covenant? Meaning it is done? finished? Soon to be replaced with the new covenant?

 

[Dionysus]

How do I explain what? the fact that Jesus FULFILLED the law covenant? Meaning it is done? finished? Soon to be replaced with the new covenant?

"until heaven and earth pass away"

Have heaven and earth passed away?

 

[truthofscripture]

"until heaven and earth pass away"

Have heaven and earth passed away?

The law covenant was a temporary measure to last until the messiah's appearance. You seem also to forget that Israel BROKE the covenant, repeatedly. Jehovah ended it as a result.

 

[leibowde84]

How do I explain what? the fact that Jesus FULFILLED the law covenant? Meaning it is done? finished? Soon to be replaced with the new covenant?

This is the part I am referring to. The "heavens and earth" have certainly not "passed away" as of yet. So, was this just an error in speach? And, certainly it cannot be said that "all has been accomplished," as Jesus is believed to be coming back to judge ...

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.…"