Who is the greater sinner?

[McBell]

Very fair questions.

I'm just speaking in general terms, which admittedly are quite subjective in nature.

Feel free to answer the poll and to clarify your answer here and give us a brief idea of why you answered what you did.

The purpose of this is for you to share with us how you measure "sin" and "evil" in this particular case.

I can come up with scenarios that make both of them the bigger "sinner"?
and that is not even taking into consider the subjectivity of the words you used to describe each person.

 

[McBell]

after thinking about the poll it seems to me the OP is comparing apples to oranges.

 

[kylixguru]

I can come up with scenarios that make both of them the bigger "sinner"?
and that is not even taking into consider the subjectivity of the words you used to describe each person.

Right, I know things kind of break down.
I did make one clarifying remark that will hopefully help you zoom in some more.

I asked that you lock in a parallel between the two examples as one simply being trespass against the physical and the other as being trespass against the spiritual.

 

[McBell]

Right, I know things kind of break down.
I did make one clarifying remark that will hopefully help you zoom in some more.

I asked that you lock in a parallel between the two examples as one simply being trespass against the physical and the other as being trespass against the spiritual.

would it not have been easier to ask:

Is it a greater sin to trespass agaisnt the physical or to trespass against the spiritual?
​

 

[horizon]

Who is the greater sinner?

I selected #1 as the greater sinner.

At the end of the day I am responsible for the choices I make in this life. If I elect to follow someone as a teacher, at some point I need to look at that person critically and examine what information they really trying to spread.

 

[savagewind]

Some posters are blaming the students of the false teacher, so the false teacher becomes not so bad. Only sometimes it is the fault of the student. The student that is lied to might be a child or a resident of a nation that insists it's residents believe things his way. Then it makes it impossible to live free but by no fault of the one who is enslaved.

 

[Alex_G]

1) A man came as a great warrior and committed much evil, murdering, raping and
plundering.

2) And another came after him in the guise of righteousness, perverting the people's minds to false notions, blinding them to the truth, binding the hearts and minds of men to mental slavery from generation to generation.

Who is the greater sinner?

If i was pushed to answer, i would actually go for the first. Of course the 2 categories are quite vague/broad, and there is clear scope to construct specific examples that fit in the latter that are more evil than specific examples constructed to fit the first, and vice versa. And of course if we descend into some cost benefit style analysis of which category holds the most of the 'more evil' examples, i would feel as though parted from the ethos of the question to begin with. (not to mention that it would be an almost fruitless endeavour)


Thus my justification for ultimately going with the 1st is as follows; that the permanency of murder is so absolute, that to cross that line is to deny that person everything, all that it means to be alive, to be a person, to be sentient. It is the greatest coercion and invasion on the rights and freedoms of another, to take away their very existence.


I don’t deny the insidious evil that can manifest through manipulation and false teaching, there will be many heinous examples, but the sheer terminal nature of taking a life, and the direct link between motive, action and consequence that defines murder is enough to sway me to choose the 1st of these broad categories as the most unacceptable.

 

[oldbadger]

1) A man came as a great warrior and committed much evil, murdering, raping and
plundering.

2) And another came after him in the guise of righteousness, perverting the people's minds to false notions, blinding them to the truth, binding the hearts and minds of men to mental slavery from generation to generation.

Who is the greater sinner?

Ha ha! Good game! Can I try? So number 1 could be Genghis Khan? Or Alexander? Caesar? Yeah...... Ceasar.... he was a cheating, ruthless, merciless murdering devil. I don't know if he raped anybody though. Probably!

Number 2 is easier! Perverting minds, binding to mental slavery....... ummm. Hitler? Oh... no. He didn't last long enough. Stalin? Nasty person.... Stalin. Mao? No I think Mao built a great nation. OK...... Stalin!

I think Stalin was the evil so and so. Yeah ? Am I right? Go on...... give us a frubal!

Is that what you wanted?

 

[oldbadger]

................. Oh! No frubal! Anyway you cheated. The poll mentioned a teacher, and the 1st post did not. But if you were looking for a teacher, I can't think of a false, perverting, blinding binding one...... teachers just teach, like showing people how to do things. Unless you were thinking of old Mr W--lock....... now he was a b-------d!

 

[kylixguru]

would it not have been easier to ask:

Is it a greater sin to trespass agaisnt the physical or to trespass against the spiritual?
​

Too bland.

 

[Twig pentagram]

I think the great warrior is the greater " sinner ". The false teacher never
forced people to believe the teachings, that was thier choice. The great
warrior forced his will upon people.

 

[kylixguru]

I think the great warrior is the greater " sinner ". The false teacher never forced people to believe the teachings, that was thier choice. The great warrior forced his will upon people.

I leaned that way too until I realized that many innocent and helpless children are so heavily brainwashed as a result of this long-term malady. In the end, I used my own personal preference that I'd rather be dead than live a lie.

What do you think of the innocent children becomming indoctrinated because of the collective laziness of their parents to not do proper due diligence on what they decided was true?

 

[tumbleweed41]

Dead is dead.

Misguided can be fixed.

 

[savagewind]

Misguided can be fixed

By whom do you suppose? I believe it can be fixed but I imagine it might be harder to lead someone to the light than it is to raise someone from the dead.

 

[tumbleweed41]

By whom do you suppose?

Themselves.

I believe it can be fixed but I imagine it might be harder to lead someone to the light than it is to raise someone from the dead.

As a former Christian, I beg to differ.

 

[kylixguru]

Dead is dead.

Misguided can be fixed.

How's it working?

 

[tumbleweed41]

How's it working?

Much happier, thanks.
:beach:

 

[savagewind]

What I hear the false teacher saying is to hate is to love. The false teacher has made convincing argument of what constitutes righteousness. So people believe him. Somehow the teacher gets people to stick to his way. OK. People have every right to be stupid. BUT because the teacher has been so convincing his way is the only way to be the people believing him must reject out of love anyone not believing as the teacher has taught. Now love becomes a weapon. It has happened in real life.

The warrior in the original post will die. What the teacher has taught convincingly will not die. False teachings are worse than crime. It has actually become a contest for real, don't you think? What can I do that will be inside the perimeters of what the majority believes because the false teacher has convinced them? Omg too much.