Who IS "The Only TRUE God"- as Jesus put it?

[URAVIP2ME]

I like your logic. Your right the trinity was decided upon when one church cleric Beat another Cleric to death at the council of Nicea while Constantine presided. Now quote scripture on that - and it appears that the one who kicks and hits the hardest will have his way in theology. Totally wrong. Jesus is not God almighty. This Stephen saw in the heavens as he was dying.

Interesting that you say one cleric beat another to death.
Not saying the below is beaten to death but rather died at that time.
In his book 'Primitive Culture' Sir Edward B. Tylor wrote about an incident that was to have taken place at the Nicene Council:

Two bishops, Chrysanthus and Mysonius, died during its [Council's] sitting.
The remaining 'Fathers' addressed the dead bishops as if alive by leaving their signed documents at the tomb.
The next day they found two signatures added to the effect:
-"We Chrysanthus and Mysonius, consenting with all the Fathers in the holy first and ecumenical Nicene Synod, although translated from the body,
have also signed the volume with our own hands."

 

[Shermana]

Interesting that you say one cleric beat another to death.
Not saying the below is beaten to death but rather died at that time.
In his book 'Primitive Culture' Sir Edward B. Tylor wrote about an incident that was to have taken place at the Nicene Council:

Two bishops, Chrysanthus and Mysonius, died during its [Council's] sitting.
The remaining 'Fathers' addressed the dead bishops as if alive by leaving their signed documents at the tomb.
The next day they found two signatures added to the effect:
-"We Chrysanthus and Mysonius, consenting with all the Fathers in the holy first and ecumenical Nicene Synod, although translated form the body,
have also signed the volume with our own hands."

You'd think that's something from a Monty Python skit, using signatures of people who fell dead during the council, but apparently it's real history. I'd like to see his source for that.

 

[icebuddy]

I like your logic. Your right the trinity was decided upon when one church cleric Beat another Cleric to death at the council of Nicea while Constantine presided. Now quote scripture on that - and it appears that the one who kicks and hits the hardest will have his way in theology. Totally wrong. Jesus is not God almighty. This Stephen saw in the heavens as he was dying.

i would like to ask a question. If you read the old Testament, who is the Rock of the old Testament?

in Love,
Tom

 

[URAVIP2ME]

i would like to ask a question. If you read the old Testament, who is the Rock of the old Testament?
in Love,
Tom

Psalm [18v2] says the LORD [YHWH] is my rock......
2nd Samuel [22vs2,3] David says the LORD [YHWH] is his rock.....

Psalm [89vs26,27] referring to Jesus that his God is Jesus' rock of his salvation.
-Col 1v15

 

[Firstborner]

i would like to ask a question. If you read the old Testament, who is the Rock of the old Testament?

in Love,
Tom

For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was CHRIST. (1 Cor. 10:4)

Still I do not see how Christ being existent before proves the trinity.

 

[jojo50]

I am the Way, the Truth and the Life! No one comes to Me, except through Me!
I AM the Father!
I AM God!
I AM the Holy Ghost!
When you've sen ME, you've seen the Ghost!
I came to do My Own will, since I am God!
I sent myself to do My will!
Worship me alone!


Jesus words re-phrased to see the 'Trinity'-

(Jesus baptised Himself in Himself, when floating down like a Dove
as God-the-Ghost)
I am the Way, the Truth and the Life! No one comes to Me, except through Me!
I AM the Father!
I AM God!
I AM the Holy Ghost!
I AM!
When you've seen ME, you've seen the Ghost!
I came to not to do My Own will, but My OWN Will!
I sent myself to do My will!
Worship me alone!
Believe in Me, also, in ME!
The witness of two or three doesn't apply to ME;
I Bear Witness to myself, and so does Myself as God-the-Father,
and Myself as God-the-Ghost- but we aren't 3 Persons; we are ONE and the SAME!
I came to make MY OWN Name known!
I have both glorified Myself, and WILL glorify Myself!


I could go on...but WHY?
It is SO obvious even a child can easily understand how goofy the dogma is...

But not churchoids!

true!... Jesus clearly shows he's NOT the Father,yet many continually said...you ARE! I could say i don't understand whay many won't even believe the words of the same one, they claim to worship, but i already know. as i told my preacher bother-n-law, many can talk until they turn blue. i will never follow that false teaching satan planted. IF.. i say i follow Jesus, :yes: then i'm willing to believe him more that man. peace

 

[icebuddy]

Psalm [18v2] says the LORD [YHWH] is my rock......
2nd Samuel [22vs2,3] David says the LORD [YHWH] is his rock.....

Psalm [89vs26,27] referring to Jesus that his God is Jesus' rock of his salvation.
-Col 1v15

Psalms is writen in such a way that not everything is revealed. If we look to the New Testament, it reveals the Old Test. heres what it says:

1Cr 10:1 For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea;
1Cr 10:2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Cr 10:3 and all ate the same spiritual food;
1Cr 10:4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

If you read Isaiah 8:13-14 it says Jehovah will be the stone that causes many to stumble, yet 1 Peter 2:6 says Jesus is the stone that causes many to stumble. But if you look back at Jer 23:5,6 we can see Jesus is Jehovah our Righteousness! He also speaks as one who is God at Isaiah 44:6-8 where He is God and there is no other Rock.



in Love,
Tom

 

[icebuddy]

For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was CHRIST. (1 Cor. 10:4)

Still I do not see how Christ being existent before proves the trinity.

First off, Im sorry to have been gone for so long. My Job and kids Sports have sucked up all my time...

I guess we need to drop the word "Trinity" for a second and ask the question, What would make you see Jesus is God? what if:

1. The Bible calls Jesus God
2. Jesus is Worshipped
3. Exactly like God the Father in every way
4. Created all things
5. is Beginning and End, First and last, Alpha and Omega
6. Jesus is Lord of the Old Test

i could go on and on, where do you want to start?

 

[F0uad]

Pretty clear... Jesus accepts being called God by Thomas...

Wrong he did not call Jesus(p) god he was speaking in this sense: (O god) how can i be this stupid.. because he thought that Jesus(p) was a spirit after the crucifixion because he thought he was killed and therefore Jesus(p) told him to touch him and then James came to the conclusion he didn't die or was a spirit because according to Jesus(p) own word when you die once you will become spiritualist yet Jesus(p) wasn't a spirit so he came to the conclusion he wasn't dead and then said GOD meaning of (GOD how dumb am i).

Read the context


Can we just say that the Father didn't pray to himself therefore making him a different person, when Jesus(p) prayed to the father was he praying to himself or what since the trinity tells us they are one.

 

[Me Myself]

Pretty clear... Jesus accepts being called God by Thomas...

where?

 

[Shermana]

where?

John 20:28.

However, there are many problems with this.

First off, the ending of John itself after 20:18 appears to be interpolated, for example, the ending of John clashes with the endings of Matthew and Luke: Where did the Disciples first meet Jesus after the Ressurection? In Galilee, Jerusalem, or in the Mountains? We know Chapter 21 to John is widely considered a later-edited "Epilogue", we see at sites like historical-jesus.info that John's ending went through several additions.

Also, Thomas could have just been saying the equivalent of OMG at the sight of seeing the ressurrected Jesus, which was most likely the case if the text is even authentic.

 

[icebuddy]

Psalm [18v2] says the LORD [YHWH] is my rock......
2nd Samuel [22vs2,3] David says the LORD [YHWH] is his rock.....

Psalm [89vs26,27] referring to Jesus that his God is Jesus' rock of his salvation.
-Col 1v15

Psalms 89:26-27 in my bible is referring to King David as seen if you read down to Ps89:35... Also verse 30 says he has sons... Context shows this as King David and we know David was called Firsborn. we also read that God will appoint him as "Firstborn" not that he will be born 1st if you read verse 27. At the time this was written Jesus already existed as the Word and Gods word says he will make or appoint him as firstborn, so your thinking has a problem because you believe jesus was Firstborn at the point of creation and not at his point of birth as shown at Luke 2:7. this is clearly speaking of David (ps 89:35)

Col 1v15 calls Jesus the firstborn over all creation. this means Jesus is heir to all creation being that everything was made by him and for him. (who else could say that but God) The word "Born" only exists in a earthly concept for Birthing only occurs on earth. Jesus becomes Marys and God the Fathers firstborn at birth on earth seen at Luke 2:7 with Heb 1:6. Jesus is called Firstborn to show his rank over creation. (matt 28:18) which Jesus created (Jn 1:3 & Col 1:16) Col 1:16 should explain why he is called Firstborn. (Col 1:18 sums it up as well)

No women are called Firstborn (unless no male sibling alive), showing heirship and not order of birth, meaning the word Firstborn used by the Jews is to be used with the 1st heir nothing else. (David was Jesse's last son born and is called Jesse's Firstborn son)

In Love,
tom

 

[icebuddy]

Wrong he did not call Jesus(p) god he was speaking in this sense: (O god) how can i be this stupid..

WOW... you really believe that

Jesus says to him" Becuase you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who believe as you do and have not seen me. Thomas believes Jesus is Lord and God and Jesus praises him. Jesus didnt correct him or rubuke him ...

Jesus is Jehovah our righteousness! (Jer 23:5-6)

In love,
tom

 

[F0uad]

WOW... you really believe that

Jesus says to him" Becuase you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who believe as you do and have not seen me.

Jesus is Jehovah our righteousness! (Jer 23:5-6)

In love,
tom

Read the context next time before face-palming my friend.

The highlighted area of what you have said just proofs my point.
Quoting Jer doesn't help you anyway since it doesn't even talks about Jesus(p) try harder.

 

[icebuddy]

Read the context next time before face-palming my friend.

I did read the Context of your post and thats what you seem to believe. If you meant the Context of John 20:28 and that Thomas said "Oh my god" (slang) then I believe 100% that this is wrong. We never see Gods word using such words as "OH MY GOD" in slang and we dont see Jesus rebuking him for doing such a thing...

im hiding my face as if to say, "Oh my god" I cant belive whats going on...

 

[Shermana]

ICebuddy, where did Jesus's disciples first meet him after his ressurection, the mountains of Galilee or a locked room in Jerusalem?

 

[Bob Dixon]

I did read the Context of your post and thats what you seem to believe. If you meant the Context of John 20:28 and that Thomas said "Oh my god" (slang) then I believe 100% that this is wrong. We never see Gods word using such words as "OH MY GOD" in slang and we dont see Jesus rebuking him for doing such a thing...

im hiding my face as if to say, "Oh my god" I cant belive whats going on...

The books you call "God's word" use much worse language than "Oh my God".

 

[F0uad]

I did read the Context of your post and thats what you seem to believe. If you meant the Context of John 20:28 and that Thomas said "Oh my god" (slang) then I believe 100% that this is wrong. We never see Gods word using such words as "OH MY GOD" in slang and we dont see Jesus rebuking him for doing such a thing...

im hiding my face as if to say, "Oh my god" I cant belive whats going on...

I hate it when people are lying and are trying to be dishonest while using there own scripture you should be ashamed and certainly after quoting that Jerm verse where Jesus(p) isn't even mentioned in the whole chapter. I said read the context meaning read the story or at-least one chapter of it!


"Then they told what had happened on the road, and how He was known to them in the breaking of the bread. As they were saying this, Jesus Himself stood among them. But they were startled and frightened, and supposed that they saw a spirit. And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do questionings rise in your hearts? See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; handle Me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see that I have." (Luke 24:35-39 RSV)

"Just as day was breaking, Jesus stood on the beach; yet the disciples did not know that it was Jesus ... Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." Now none of the disciples dared ask Him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord. Jesus came and took the bread and gave it to them, and so with the fish. This was now the third time that Jesus was revealed to the disciples after He was raised from the dead." (John 21:4,12-14 RSV)

After the so called resurrection Jesus(p) was able to eat Read Luke 24:42-43. He showed people His hands and feet, with the nail prints in them read Luke 24:39; John 20:27, and people even grabbed His feet Matthew 28:9. As the reports of Jesus'(p) so called resurrection were spreading, Thomas, who was doubting the so called resurrection of Jesus(p), said, "Unless I shall see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe," John 20:25. Later, Jesus(p) appeared to Thomas and said to him, "Reach here your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand, and put it into My side; and be not unbelieving, but believing," John 20:27 And he replied with 'O my God' in the sense of him not knowing that Jesus(p) was actually alive and that he could be this stupid since he believed that Jesus(p) was a spirit and had died according rumours. According to Jesus(p)'s owns words when you die once you stay dead therefore Jesus(p) didn't die and Thomas said that because he forgot.

 

[icebuddy]

ICebuddy, where did Jesus's disciples first meet him after his ressurection, the mountains of Galilee or a locked room in Jerusalem?

Though it was Jesus' plan to meet with His disciples in Galilee immediately after His resurrection, their unbelief required that He first appear to them in Jerusalem.

 

[icebuddy]

The books you call "God's word" use much worse language than "Oh my God".

"oh My God" is never used in slang like we use today. Never does any book in the bible support this nor any church fathers use such language. "OH my God" is a stretch for those who deny whats really going on here.

One of my friends who is a JW has a better answer that fits his belief that Jesus is not God. However, I tell him that to look the Image of God in the face and say, "NOT GOD" is very dangerous. The Angel of the Lord in the OT who is either the pre-incarnate Jesus or a creation of Jesus is treated with much more respect than what we are doing here with the "OH MY GOD" or any "NOT GOD" statements...