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Who is the real Imam Mahdi? Is he still to come?

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
This is a link to 480 pages in original language.

Arabic and Persian Babi Texts

Regards Tony
I also searched , meanwhile, and found the following:

كـتـاب الأسـمـاء
The Kitab al-asma' (Book of Names)
or Chahar Sha`n
(The [Book of the] Four Modes [of Revelation])
of Sayyid `Ali Muhammad, the Bab (d. Tabriz 1850).
Stephen Lambden UC Merced,
IN PROGRESS and being revised and corrected
Last updated January 24th 2018 +31-07-2020
Kitab al-asma' I - The Book of Names - The Chahar Sha`n ... Introduction | Hurqalya Publications: Center for Shaykhī and Bābī-Bahā’ī Studies

كـتـاب الأسـمـاء
The Kitab al-asma' (Book of Names) of the Bab II :
Select Excerpts in Translation.
Stephen Lambden UC Merced,
IN PROGRESS and being revised and corrected
Last updated July 27th 2020.
The Kitab al-asma' II - Select Excerpts in Translation | Hurqalya Publications: Center for Shaykhī and Bābī-Bahā’ī Studies

كتاب الاسماء Kitabu'l-Asma' : Sayyid 'Ali-Muhammad Shirazi al ...
archive.org › details › Kitabul-Asma

Oct 10, 2010 — Sayyid `Ali Muhammad the Bab Shirazi. Kitab-i-Asma' ('The Book of Names' of All Things) Ms., private hands. This is a partial manuscript of 481 ...

كتاب الاسماء Kitabu'l-Asma' : Sayyid 'Ali-Muhammad Shirazi al-Bab : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Now locate for me, please, where the excerpt under discussion ( vide post #170 of our friend @InvestigateTruth ) is located in the above sites . Right friend, please?
I have already my reservations for the translation rendered by Shoghí Effendí of Iqan and the verses of Quran in it from my personal experience while I studied Iqan, that is what creates my doubts of the Bahai Library sites, sorry for that, please. Right friend, please?

Regards
 
Last edited:

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
I also searched , meanwhile, and found the following:

كـتـاب الأسـمـاء
The Kitab al-asma' (Book of Names)
or Chahar Sha`n
(The [Book of the] Four Modes [of Revelation])
of Sayyid `Ali Muhammad, the Bab (d. Tabriz 1850).
Stephen Lambden UC Merced,
IN PROGRESS and being revised and corrected
Last updated January 24th 2018 +31-07-2020
Kitab al-asma' I - The Book of Names - The Chahar Sha`n ... Introduction | Hurqalya Publications: Center for Shaykhī and Bābī-Bahā’ī Studies

كـتـاب الأسـمـاء
The Kitab al-asma' (Book of Names) of the Bab II :
Select Excerpts in Translation.
Stephen Lambden UC Merced,
IN PROGRESS and being revised and corrected
Last updated July 27th 2020.
The Kitab al-asma' II - Select Excerpts in Translation | Hurqalya Publications: Center for Shaykhī and Bābī-Bahā’ī Studies

كتاب الاسماء Kitabu'l-Asma' : Sayyid 'Ali-Muhammad Shirazi al ...
archive.org › details › Kitabul-Asma

Oct 10, 2010 — Sayyid `Ali Muhammad the Bab Shirazi. Kitab-i-Asma' ('The Book of Names' of All Things) Ms., private hands. This is a partial manuscript of 481 ...

كتاب الاسماء Kitabu'l-Asma' : Sayyid 'Ali-Muhammad Shirazi al-Bab : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Now locate for me, please, where the excerpt under discussion ( vide post #170 of our friend @InvestigateTruth ) is located in the above sites . Right friend, please?
I have already my reservations for the translation rendered by Shoghí Effendí of Iqan and the verses of Quran in it from my personal experience while I studied Iqan, that is what creates my doubts of the Bahai Library sites, sorry for that, please. Right friend, please?

Regards
If you go to the English Translations of the Selected Writings of the Bab, at the end of each section it gives the exact references of the Books. So, in this case it is from

XVI, 18

Vahid 16, chapter 18.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
I have already my reservations for the translation rendered by Shoghí Effendí of Iqan and the verses of Quran in it from my personal experience while I studied Iqan, that is what creates my doubts of the Bahai Library sites, sorry for that, please. Right friend, please?

I see you would have reservations about Shoghi Effendi'Translations, as one does not know what Baha'u'llah offered like Shoghi Effendi did. That is why he had the Authority of the Covernant to interpret and translate.

So when Shoghi Effendi translated, He was also able to translate the given meaning. So if you find he gave new meaning to a previous word or concept, it was because He knew what meaning Baha'u'llah had given to that word or concept.

Interpretation is no longer possible for the Universal House of Justice and that is why new translations are slow. Meanings of words and concepts have to be researched from what the Bab, Baha'u'llah and Abdu'lbaha wrote during the translation, in an attempt to give in the most pure form, the original intention given in the Word.

All the questions you would have as to why Shoghi Effendi translated passages as He did, would have an explanation. It all depends if one wants an explanation, or if one thinks it is a fault. If we think it is a fault then one can ask the Universal House of Justice for clarification.

Maybe you can now understand why they are so busy at the World Centre. There are many very knowledgeable Baha'i Scholars working on this both Officially at the World Centre and unofficially around the world. All the unofficial translations will eventually have to be approved.

Also a Translation can be reviewed if new information is found, or if a correction is required.

The Book Some Answered Questions by Abdul'baha has recently undergone such a reveiw as many scholars said it needed a reveiw.

Regards Tony
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
Screenshot_20201225-152510_Drive.jpg


@paarsurrey

This is in Persian Bayan, another place where the Bab said He is the Promised Mahdi. The Persian Bayan is available online. This is from Wahid 9, Bab 3, page 311.

This is the Bayan:
http://www.bayanic.com/lib/typed/sacred/Point/Persian-Bayan/PersianBayan.pdf

And this is the translation of the section:


"...in the Revelation of the Point of the Bayán, if all should be assured that this is that same Promised Mihdí whom the Apostle of God foretold, not one of the believers in the Qur’án would turn aside from the sayings of the Apostle of God."

Selections from the Writings of the Báb | Bahá’í Reference Library
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
I also searched , meanwhile, and found the following:

Yes thank you I found that link to.

I can not read Arabic or Persian, so I can not help you there. InvestigateTruth can.

I did not know the extent of this book and that was a great thing to find out, so thank you. This from the link says there are 481 of at least 3000 pages.

"... Sayyid `Ali Muhammad "the Bab" Shirazi. Kitab-i-Asma' ('The Book of Names' of All Things) Ms., private hands. This is a partial manuscript of 481 pages, only a fraction of the size of the complete work.

According to Saiedi (2008: 36): "This work, the complete text of which is more than three thousand pages, is the largest revealed book in sacred history. It consists of nineteen unities and 361 gates (chapters)."

This was but One of the Bab's works.

Regards Tony
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Not all. Hinduism gives freedom for people to think on their own. It's not some block of people all thinking exactly the same way. That's a beauty of Hinduism that other faiths don't have so much of. So you'd have to go around and ask each person what they truly believed.

Do the Ammadiyas believe that Mirza Akmad was Kalki, in the same way the Baha'is believe Baha'u'llah was?
" Do the Ammadiyas believe that Mirza Akmad was Kalki, in the same way the Baha'is believe Baha'u'llah was?"

I figure, Bab and or Bahaullah never claimed specifically to be a Kalki Avatar, perhaps they never heard of it although they did make many tall claims in general or they made sweeping statements. I have read only Iqan, I understand, it does not mention of the claim of Bab or Bahaullah being Kalki Avatar.
I am not sure but it must be an idea of Shoghí Effendí and or Abdul Baha, please. Bahaism people here may quote a specific claim in clear, open, public, straightforward, unequivocal and unambiguous claim of Bab or Bahaullah, please. Right friends, please?

Regards
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
If you go to the English Translations of the Selected Writings of the Bab, at the end of each section it gives the exact references of the Books. So, in this case it is from

XVI, 18

Vahid 16, chapter 18.


Which when translated reads;

"... SINCE thou hast faithfully obeyed the true religion of God in the past, it behooveth thee to follow His true religion hereafter, inasmuch as every religion proceedeth from God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. He Who hath revealed the Qur'an unto Muhammad, the Apostle of God, ordaining in the Faith of &Islam that which was pleasing unto Him, hath likewise revealed the &Bayan, in the manner ye have been promised, unto Him Who is your Qa'im,+F1 your Guide, your Mihdi,+F2 your Lord, Him Whom ye acclaim as the manifestation of God's most excellent titles. Verily the equivalent of that which God revealed unto &Muhammad during twenty-three years, hath been revealed unto Me within the space of two days and two nights. However, as ordained by God, no distinction is to be drawn between the two.He, in truth, hath power over all things.
I swear by the life of Him Whom God shall make manifest! My Revelation is indeed far more bewildering than that of Muhammad, the Apostle of God, if thou dost but pause to reflect upon the days of God. Behold, how strange that a person brought up amongst the people of Persia should be empowered by God to proclaim such irrefutable utterances as to silence every man of learning, and be enabled to spontaneously reveal verses far more rapidly than anyone could possibly set down in writing. Verily, no God is there but Him, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. XVI, 18.
+F1 He Who ariseth (God Passes By, p. 57)
+F2 One Who is guided (God Passes By, p. 58)

Regards Tony
 
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TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
" Do the Ammadiyas believe that Mirza Akmad was Kalki, in the same way the Baha'is believe Baha'u'llah was?"

I figure, Bab and or Bahaullah never claimed specifically to be a Kalki Avatar, perhaps they never heard of it although they did make many tall claims in general or they made sweeping statements. I have read only Iqan, I understand, it does not mention of the claim of Bab or Bahaullah being Kalki Avatar.
I am not sure but it must be an idea of Shoghí Effendí and or Abdul Baha, please. Bahaism people here may quote a specific claim in clear, open, public, straightforward, unequivocal and unambiguous claim of Bab or Bahaullah, please. Right friends, please?

Regards

The problem we face @paarsurrey is that we do not know what the Bab and Baha'u'llah offered better then what Abdul'baha and Shoghi Effendi did. All that they wrote about, all that they showed us about, the Bab and Baha'u'llah, will be found in the Writings of the Bab and Baha'u'llah. They were also given that Authority by Baha'u'llah.

As Such all what is applicable to the Bab and Baha'u'llah is as follows - This is from 'God Passed By'.

The Báb, acclaimed by Bahá’u’lláh as the “Essence of Essences,” the “Sea of Seas,” the “Point round Whom the realities of the Prophets and Messengers revolve,” “from Whom God hath caused to proceed the knowledge of all that was and shall be,” Whose “rank excelleth that of all the Prophets,” and Whose “Revelation transcendeth the comprehension and understanding of all their chosen ones,” had delivered His Message and discharged His mission. He Who was, in the words of ‘Abdu’l‑Bahá, the “Morn of Truth” and “Harbinger of the Most Great Light,” Whose advent at once signalized the termination of the “Prophetic Cycle” and the inception of the “Cycle of Fulfillment,” had simultaneously through His Revelation banished the shades of night that had descended upon His country, and proclaimed the impending rise of that Incomparable Orb Whose radiance was to envelop the whole of mankind. He, as affirmed by Himself, “the Primal Point from which have been generated all created things,” “one of the sustaining pillars of the Primal Word of God,” the “Mystic Fane,” the “Great Announcement,” the “Flame of that supernal Light that glowed upon Sinai,” the “Remembrance of God” concerning Whom “a separate Covenant hath been established with each and every Prophet” had, through His advent, at once fulfilled the promise of all ages and ushered in the consummation of all Revelations. He the “Qá’im” (He Who ariseth) promised to the Shí‘ahs, the “Mihdí” (One Who is guided) awaited by the Sunnís, the “Return of John the Baptist” expected by the Christians, the “Úshídar-Máh” referred to in the Zoroastrian scriptures, the “Return of Elijah” anticipated by the Jews, Whose Revelation was to show forth “the signs and tokens of all the Prophets”, Who was to “manifest the perfection of Moses, the radiance of Jesus and the patience of Job” had appeared, proclaimed His Cause, been mercilessly persecuted and died gloriously. The “Second Woe,” spoken of in the Apocalypse of St. John the Divine, had, at long last, appeared, and the first of the two “Messengers,” Whose appearance had been prophesied in the Qur’án, had been sent down. The first “Trumpet-Blast”, destined to smite the earth with extermination, announced in the latter Book, had finally been sounded. “The Inevitable,” “The Catastrophe,” “The Resurrection,” “The Earthquake of the Last Hour,” foretold by that same Book, had all come to pass. The “clear tokens” had been “sent down,” and the “Spirit” had “breathed,” and the “souls” had “waked up,” and the “heaven” had been “cleft,” and the “angels” had “ranged in order,” and the “stars” had been “blotted out,” and the “earth” had “cast forth her burden,” and “Paradise” had been “brought near,” and “hell” had been “made to blaze,” and the “Book” had been “set,” and the “Bridge” had been “laid out,” and the “Balance” had been “set up,” and the “mountains scattered in dust.” The “cleansing of the Sanctuary,” prophesied by Daniel and confirmed by Jesus Christ in His reference to “the abomination of desolation,” had been accomplished. The “day whose length shall be a thousand years,” foretold by the Apostle of God in His Book, had terminated. The “forty and two months,” during which the “Holy City,” as predicted by St. John the Divine, would be trodden under foot, had elapsed. The “time of the end” had been ushered in, and the first of the “two Witnesses” into Whom, “after three days and a half the Spirit of Life from God” would enter, had arisen and had “ascended up to heaven in a cloud.” The “remaining twenty and five letters to be made manifest,” according to Islamic tradition, out of the “twenty and seven letters” of which Knowledge has been declared to consist, had been revealed. The “Man Child,” mentioned in the Book of Revelation, destined to “rule all nations with a rod of iron,” had released, through His coming, the creative energies which, reinforced by the effusions of a swiftly succeeding and infinitely mightier Revelation, were to instill into the entire human race the capacity to achieve its organic unification, attain maturity and thereby reach the final stage in its age-long evolution. The clarion-call addressed to the “concourse of kings and of the sons of kings,” marking the inception of a process which, accelerated by Bahá’u’lláh’s subsequent warnings to the entire company of the monarchs of East and West, was to produce so widespread a revolution in the fortunes of royalty, had been raised in the Qayyumú’l-Asmá’. The “Order,” whose foundation the Promised One was to establish in the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, and the features of which the Center of the Covenant was to delineate in His Testament, and whose administrative framework the entire body of His followers are now erecting, had been categorically announced in the Persian Bayán.
(God Passes By) www.bahai.org/r/242445030

Baha'u'llah in next post

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
"To attempt an exhaustive survey of the prophetic references to Bahá’u’lláh’s Revelation would indeed be an impossible task. To this the pen of Bahá’u’lláh Himself bears witness: “All the Divine Books and Scriptures have predicted and announced unto men the advent of the Most Great Revelation. None can adequately recount the verses recorded in the Books of former ages which forecast this supreme Bounty, this most mighty Bestowal.”

To Israel He was neither more nor less than the incarnation of the “Everlasting Father”; the “Lord of Hosts” come down “with ten thousands of saints”; to Christendom Christ returned “in the glory of the Father,” to Shí‘ah Islám the return of the Imám Ḥusayn; to Sunní Islám the descent of the “Spirit of God” (Jesus Christ); to the Zoroastrians the promised Sháh-Bahrám; to the Hindus the reincarnation of Krishna; to the Buddhists the fifth Buddha.

In the name He bore He combined those of the Imám Ḥusayn, the most illustrious of the successors of the Apostle of God—the brightest “star” shining in the “crown” mentioned in the Revelation of St. John—and of the Imám ‘Alí, the Commander of the Faithful, the second of the two “witnesses” extolled in that same Book. He was formally designated Bahá’u’lláh, an appellation specifically recorded in the Persian Bayán, signifying at once the glory, the light and the splendor of God, and was styled the “Lord of Lords,” the “Most Great Name,” the “Ancient Beauty,” the “Pen of the Most High,” the “Hidden Name,” the “Preserved Treasure,” “He Whom God will make manifest,” the “Most Great Light,” the “All-Highest Horizon,” the “Most Great Ocean,” the “Supreme Heaven,” the “Pre-Existent Root,” the “Self-Subsistent,” the “Day-Star of the Universe,” the “Great Announcement,” the “Speaker on Sinai,” the “Sifter of Men,” the “Wronged One of the World,” the “Desire of the Nations,” the “Lord of the Covenant,” the “Tree beyond which there is no passing.” He derived His descent, on the one hand, from Abraham (the Father of the Faithful) through his wife Katurah, and on the other from Zoroaster, as well as from Yazdigird, the last king of the Sásáníyán dynasty. He was moreover a descendant of Jesse, and belonged, through His father, Mírzá ‘Abbás, better known as Mírzá Buzurg—a nobleman closely associated with the ministerial circles of the Court of Fatḥ-‘Alí Sháh—to one of the most ancient and renowned families of Mázindarán.

To Him Isaiah, the greatest of the Jewish prophets, had alluded as the “Glory of the Lord,” the “Everlasting Father,” the “Prince of Peace,” the “Wonderful,” the “Counsellor,” the “Rod come forth out of the stem of Jesse” and the “Branch grown out of His roots,” Who “shall be established upon the throne of David,” Who “will come with strong hand,” Who “shall judge among the nations,” Who “shall smite the earth with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips slay the wicked,” and Who “shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.” Of Him David had sung in his Psalms, acclaiming Him as the “Lord of Hosts” and the “King of Glory.” To Him Haggai had referred as the “Desire of all nations,” and Zachariah as the “Branch” Who “shall grow up out of His place,” and “shall build the Temple of the Lord.” Zachariah had extolled Him as the “Lord” Who “shall be king over all the earth,” while to His day Joel and Zephaniah had both referred as the “day of Jehovah,” the latter describing it as “a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, a day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.” His Day Ezekiel and Daniel had, moreover, both acclaimed as the “day of the Lord,” and Malachi described as “the great and dreadful day of the Lord” when “the Sun of Righteousness” will “arise, with healing in His wings,” whilst Daniel had pronounced His advent as signalizing the end of the “abomination that maketh desolate.”

To His Dispensation the sacred books of the followers of Zoroaster had referred as that in which the sun must needs be brought to a standstill for no less than one whole month. To Him Zoroaster must have alluded when, according to tradition, He foretold that a period of three thousand years of conflict and contention must needs precede the advent of the World-Savior Sháh-Bahrám, Who would triumph over Ahriman and usher in an era of blessedness and peace.

He alone is meant by the prophecy attributed to Gautama Buddha Himself, that “a Buddha named Maitreye, the Buddha of universal fellowship” should, in the fullness of time, arise and reveal “His boundless glory.” To Him the Bhagavad-Gita of the Hindus had referred as the “Most Great Spirit,” the “Tenth Avatar,” the “Immaculate Manifestation of Krishna.”

To Him Jesus Christ had referred as the “Prince of this world,” as the “Comforter” Who will “reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment,” as the “Spirit of Truth” Who “will guide you into all truth,” Who “shall not speak of Himself, but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak,” as the “Lord of the Vineyard,” and as the “Son of Man” Who “shall come in the glory of His Father” “in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory,” with “all the holy angels” about Him, and “all nations” gathered before His throne. To Him the Author of the Apocalypse had alluded as the “Glory of God,” as “Alpha and Omega,” “the Beginning and the End,” “the First and the Last.” Identifying His Revelation with the “third woe,” he, moreover, had extolled His Law as “a new heaven and a new earth,” as the “Tabernacle of God,” as the “Holy City,” as the “New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.” To His Day Jesus Christ Himself had referred as “the regeneration when the Son of Man shall sit in the throne of His glory.” To the hour of His advent St. Paul had alluded as the hour of the “last trump,” the “trump of God,” whilst St. Peter had spoken of it as the “Day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat.” His Day he, furthermore, had described as “the times of refreshing,” “the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy Prophets since the world began.”

To Him Muḥammad, the Apostle of God, had alluded in His Book as the “Great Announcement,” and declared His Day to be the Day whereon “God” will “come down” “overshadowed with clouds,” the Day whereon “thy Lord shall come and the angels rank on rank,” and “The Spirit shall arise and the angels shall be ranged in order.” His advent He, in that Book, in a súrih said to have been termed by Him “the heart of the Qur’án,” had foreshadowed as that of the “third” Messenger, sent down to “strengthen” the two who preceded Him. To His Day He, in the pages of that same Book, had paid a glowing tribute, glorifying it as the “Great Day,” the “Last Day,” the “Day of God,” the “Day of Judgment,” the “Day of Reckoning,” the “Day of Mutual Deceit,” the “Day of Severing,” the “Day of Sighing,” the “Day of Meeting,” the Day “when the Decree shall be accomplished,” the Day whereon the second “Trumpet blast” will be sounded, the “Day when mankind shall stand before the Lord of the world,” and “all shall come to Him in humble guise,” the Day when “thou shalt see the mountains, which thou thinkest so firm, pass away with the passing of a cloud,” the Day “wherein account shall be taken,” “the approaching Day, when men’s hearts shall rise up, choking them, into their throats,” the Day when “all that are in the heavens and all that are on the earth shall be terror-stricken, save him whom God pleaseth to deliver,” the Day whereon “every suckling woman shall forsake her sucking babe, and every woman that hath a burden in her womb shall cast her burden,” the Day “when the earth shall shine with the light of her Lord, and the Book shall be set, and the Prophets shall be brought up, and the witnesses; and judgment shall be given between them with equity; and none shall be wronged.”

The plenitude of His glory the Apostle of God had, moreover, as attested by Bahá’u’lláh Himself, compared to the “full moon on its fourteenth night.” His station the Imám ‘Alí, the Commander of the Faithful, had, according to the same testimony, identified with “Him Who conversed with Moses from the Burning Bush on Sinai.” To the transcendent character of His mission the Imám Ḥusayn had, again according to Bahá’u’lláh, borne witness as a “Revelation whose Revealer will be He Who revealed” the Apostle of God Himself.

About Him Shaykh Aḥmad-i-Aḥsá’í, the herald of the Bábí Dispensation, who had foreshadowed the “strange happenings” that would transpire “between the years sixty and sixty-seven,” and had categorically affirmed the inevitability of His Revelation had, as previously mentioned, written the following: “The Mystery of this Cause must needs be made manifest, and the Secret of this Message must needs be divulged. I can say no more, I can appoint no time. His Cause will be made known after Ḥín (68)” (i.e., after a while).

Siyyid Káẓim-i-Rashtí, Shaykh Aḥmad’s disciple and successor, had likewise written: “The Qá’im must needs be put to death. After He has been slain the world will have attained the age of eighteen.” In his Sharḥ-i-Qaṣídiy-i-Lámíyyíh he had even alluded to the name “Bahá.” Furthermore, to his disciples, as his days drew to a close, he had significantly declared: “Verily, I say, after the Qá’im the Qayyúm will be made manifest. For when the star of the former has set the sun of the beauty of Ḥusayn will rise and illuminate the whole world. Then will be unfolded in all its glory the ‘Mystery’ and the ‘Secret’ spoken of by Shaykh Aḥmad.… To have attained unto that Day of Days is to have attained unto the crowning glory of past generations, and one goodly deed performed in that age is equal to the pious worship of countless centuries.”

Regards Tony
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
" Do the Ammadiyas believe that Mirza Akmad was Kalki, in the same way the Baha'is believe Baha'u'llah was?"

I figure, Bab and or Bahaullah never claimed specifically to be a Kalki Avatar, perhaps they never heard of it although they did make many tall claims in general or they made sweeping statements. I have read only Iqan, I understand, it does not mention of the claim of Bab or Bahaullah being Kalki Avatar.
I am not sure but it must be an idea of Shoghí Effendí and or Abdul Baha, please. Bahaism people here may quote a specific claim in clear, open, public, straightforward, unequivocal and unambiguous claim of Bab or Bahaullah, please. Right friends, please?

Regards
Sir, you didn't answer my question.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I already told you what Baha'u'llah claimed in His Writings.
No, He did not specifically claim to be the end time "Krishna".
He claimed to be the return of all the Prophets, so you can do the math.
Trailblazer wrote," He claimed to be the return of all the Prophets"

Didn't Bab also claim "to be the return of all the Prophets" , please?
Can one tell exactly:
  1. What claims did Bab make, please?
  2. What claims did Bahaullah make, please?
  3. What same claims did both of them make, please?
Kindly don't miss claim of any name, please.
Just for clarity and information, please. Right friends, please?

Regards
 
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TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Sir, you didn't answer my question.

A good question indeed.

"You know very well that at the request of Grandfather Brahma, I have assumed this form of Kalki avatara [avatar] … I am just about to set out on a tour to conquer all the kings of the world."– Texts 24–25.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Trailblazer wrote," He claimed to be the return of all the Prophets"

Didn't Bab also claim this , please?
Can one tell exactly:
  1. What claims did Bab make, please?
  2. What claims did Bahaullah make, please?
  3. What same claims did both of them make, please?
Kindly don't miss claim of any name, please.
Just for clarity and information, please. Right friends, please?

Regards

The answer to that is in two posts just above this one Paarsurrey - Open the Links, click on the spoiler for Bab and Baha'u'llah and you will find what Titles are is applicable to both the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Who is the real Imam Mahdi? Is he still to come?

Who is the real Imam Mahdi? Is he still to come?


Regards Tony
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
A good question indeed.

"You know very well that at the request of Grandfather Brahma, I have assumed this form of Kalki avatara [avatar] … I am just about to set out on a tour to conquer all the kings of the world."– Texts 24–25.

Regards Tony
What is that from, Tony?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Kalki Purana Link to PDF - Chapter 20 - Texts 24–25.

Regards Tony

Thanks. I'm not a Puranic Hindu, so it has no bearing on my personal belief. Researching the Ahmadiyya faith on my own, I could find no place where the prophet of that faith claimed he was also Kalki. I'm not sure if Baha'u'llah did either, and I think that was probably an extension when the Baha'i ideas got extended further back than Judaism. Course I'm most likely wrong.

I'm confident Paarsurrey will be back and set me straight one way or the other.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Trailblazer wrote," He claimed to be the return of all the Prophets"

Didn't Bab also claim "to be the return of all the Prophets" , please?
Can one tell exactly:
  1. What claims did Bab make, please?
  2. What claims did Bahaullah make, please?
  3. What same claims did both of them make, please?
Kindly don't miss claim of any name, please.
Just for clarity and information, please. Right friends, please?

Regards
Sorry, I really don't know exactly what the Bab claimed, and I already told you what Baha'u'llah claimed.
I do not believe that the claims are as important as the evidence that supports their claims.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
Trailblazer wrote," He claimed to be the return of all the Prophets"

Didn't Bab also claim "to be the return of all the Prophets" , please?
Can one tell exactly:
  1. What claims did Bab make, please?
  2. What claims did Bahaullah make, please?
  3. What same claims did both of them make, please?
Kindly don't miss claim of any name, please.
Just for clarity and information, please. Right friends, please?

Sorry, I really don't know exactly what the Bab claimed, and I already told you what Baha'u'llah claimed.
I do not believe that the claims are as important as the evidence that supports their claims.

All other Bahaism people may opt to answer the above little question, please?
There are many Bab's books, tables and Bahaullah's books tablets on the site of
TitleHead.gif
(Bahai reference Library), it should not be difficult to find them out, please.
Right friends, please?

Regards
 
Last edited:

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
Trailblazer wrote," He claimed to be the return of all the Prophets"

Didn't Bab also claim "to be the return of all the Prophets" , please?
Can one tell exactly:
  1. What claims did Bab make, please?
  2. What claims did Bahaullah make, please?
  3. What same claims did both of them make, please?
Kindly don't miss claim of any name, please.
Just for clarity and information, please. Right friends, please?

The answer to that is in two posts just above this one Paarsurrey - Open the Links, click on the spoiler for Bab and Baha'u'llah and you will find what Titles are is applicable to both the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Who is the real Imam Mahdi? Is he still to come?

Who is the real Imam Mahdi? Is he still to come?


Regards Tony
Kindly do it please for us. Right friend, please?

Regards
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Thanks. I'm not a Puranic Hindu, so it has no bearing on my personal belief. Researching the Ahmadiyya faith on my own, I could find no place where the prophet of that faith claimed he was also Kalki. I'm not sure if Baha'u'llah did either, and I think that was probably an extension when the Baha'i ideas got extended further back than Judaism. Course I'm most likely wrong.

I'm confident Paarsurrey will be back and set me straight one way or the other.

All I can say, as you know is based on Faith. I can only offer that Shoghi Effendi did know what was offered in the Writings. As such I see he would base such a comment firmly in those writings.

There is a lot yet to be translated, but Shoghi Effendi was immersed in those writings and the explanation from the greatest scholars of the Faith since birth.

Regards Tony
 
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