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Who is the real Imam Mahdi? Is he still to come?

soulsurvivor

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I don't have any faith in the accuracy of these legends. My guess is these are just the projections of the misguided. The weirdest feature of all these myths is that in each scenario the "savior" dude (heaven forbid that said savior could possibly be woman) comes to support the religion that predicts their earthly romp.

Exit question: How arrogant does one have to be to think that the "savior" of humanity will come to support their particular religious delusions?
You are quite right. The idea that a messenger of God will support any particular religion is totally delusional. But does not mean that the prophesy of the coming of such a messenger is false. It just means that the messenger of God (the Mahdi or Jesus or whoever) will very likely not discriminate between religions, but he will continue to expand on the teachings of all religions.
 
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soulsurvivor

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
No, he's not arriving anytime soon. The texts of early Buddhism also suggest that the other alleged saviors are false, and bound for the hell realms.
Everyone's texts say that the other religion's saviors are false (Actually only Hinduism never says any other religions/saviors are false).
 

soulsurvivor

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Mahdi means guided by G-d, another name of the Messiah as he will be guided by G-d Himself with Revelation from Him, a sign of being truthful. Please
Regards
So the meaning of the word Mahdi is the proof that this Mirza person is the Mahdi? Not very convincing!
And what's the story about him being Jesus as well as the Mahdi? So Mirza fulfills the hadiths by being two persons simultaneously? Very confusing!
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
All religions are expecting a Savior to come someday (some say at the end of world). Hindus expect Kalki, Christians await the Second Coming of Jesus, Jews await Moshiach and Muslims expect Imam Mahdi.

This topic is very relevant now, because for some unknown reason, many of these seem to think all these events are going to happen very, very soon.

Among the four, the Muslim savior is particularly interesting because there are many prophesies (or hadiths) regarding his return and there are multiple persons (with several million followers each) claiming to the real Imam Mahdi. Another interesting aspect of Islamic eschatology is that they not only expect the Imam but also say that he will be followed by the Second Coming of Jesus – in fact the two will both be present on Earth at the same time. One hadith of particular interest describe the Imam Mahdi leading a prayer with Jesus standing beside or behind him (in other words Jesus is the junior Savior – although Muslims probably don’t use the word ‘Savior’).

I am interested in discussing the merits of the various claimants and see what people think of the chances are of the ‘’real’ one coming soon.

The Ahmadis – they say that their leader Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (now deceased - 1908) is the Imam Mahdi. However, according to Islamic prophesy, the Mahdi is supposed to be followed by the Second Coming of Jesus. The Ahmadis solved this problem by saying Ahmad was both the Mahdi as well as Jesus, so instead of two separate persons they have come as one. (I have heard some Ahmadis claim that Ahmad is also Krishna, but I don’t know if that is the official position). The Ahmadi also claim that Jesus never died on the cross, but went on to live many years, finally dying and being buried in India (there is even a grave site). Apparently over 20 million believe these stories and are followers of Ahmad. Ahmadis claim to be Muslims, but most other Muslims don’t seem agree. So the Mahdi/Savior according them is come and gone, the world of world has not taken place, so maybe we are all already saved or we can be saved by believing in Ahmad. Mirza Ahmad has written many, many books – perhaps we should be reading them

The Bahais – They have two leaders the Bab and Bahaullah (both deceased), but Bahaullah (1817-1892) is the Founder of the faith. They initially claimed that their leader Bahaullah was the Imam Mahdi. But there was no Jesus who followed, so then they changed it to say Bahaullah was the Second Coming of Jesus and the Bab is Imam Mahdi. But that would make Bahaullah junior to Bab, so now they say that Bahaullah is not only Jesus but also ‘the Father’ (from the Bible, both Father and Son in one person). So the Islamic prophesy has been fulfilled - Imam Mahdi has been followed by the Second Coming of Jesus/the Father (although I don’t believe the two of them ever met or led a prayer together as predicted). Bahaullah himself was so sure of his position, he has written many verses in the exact same style as the beatitudes from the Bible. He has also written thousands of ‘tablets’, many still waiting to be translated. I don’t think Bahais claim to be Muslim, but they believe that Koran is the word of God. At least 8 million people believe in these claims of Bahaullah.

Recently Mohammed Abdullah al-Nasr of Egypt has claimed to be the Mahdi. I am not sure how many people believe his story, but I am sure he has at least some followers.

There is person India living in India who has claimed to be the Imam, but almost nobody seems to believe him.

I think the claims above are a bit dubious – any believers on this forum are welcome to try and convince me otherwise.

Most recently a couple of people have posted on these forums, saying the coming of the Mahdi is near (or has already occurred) . I have looked at their website/wiki but they don’t show an actual person. However, their goals and statements are good. They have even started believing in reincarnation – this is a major change in the dogma of Islam. Only very serious people would take such a big, drastic step of changing in their beliefs especially if you are a Muslim – these are strong convictions. So it looks like they have seen some kind of light. I will keep an open mind – may be this could be the real thing. My money (very small amount) is definitely on them.

This return of the Mahi is of importance not just to Muslims. If he is indeed the expected world savior, he is going to affect every person in the world one way or another. (Incidentally I am a Hindu).

So will the real Imam Mahdi please stand up ?!

Please comment and let me know what you think. (Also please correct any statements I have made above about the beliefs of different faiths above).
it is the beast who once was, now is not, yet will come.

He will unite all religions because he was influential in creating all of them.

The Hopi wait for the Blue Star Kachina
The Aztec for quetzalcoatl
The Mayan for kukulkan
 
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arthra

Baha'i
The Bahais – They have two leaders the Bab and Bahaullah (both deceased), but Bahaullah (1817-1892) is the Founder of the faith. They initially claimed that their leader Bahaullah was the Imam Mahdi. But there was no Jesus who followed, so then they changed it to say Bahaullah was the Second Coming of Jesus and the Bab is Imam Mahdi. But that would make Bahaullah junior to Bab, so now they say that Bahaullah is not only Jesus but also ‘the Father’ (from the Bible, both Father and Son in one person). So the Islamic prophesy has been fulfilled - Imam Mahdi has been followed by the Second Coming of Jesus/the Father (although I don’t believe the two of them ever met or led a prayer together as predicted). Bahaullah himself was so sure of his position, he has written many verses in the exact same style as the beatitudes from the Bible. He has also written thousands of ‘tablets’, many still waiting to be translated. I don’t think Bahais claim to be Muslim, but they believe that Koran is the word of God. At least 8 million people believe in these claims of Bahaullah.

Hello my good friend "injuntrouble"... I wanted to thank you for providing summaries of what you thought were some of the major claimants these days to the Imam Mahdi.. Your summary for Baha'i is in my view lacking and doesn't represent our views on the subject. Let me make an attempt here to correct some of your statements.

According to Shiah prophecy the return of the Twelfth Imam was the Mahdi and that prophecy as we Baha'is believe was fulfilled by Siyyid Ali Muhammad Shirazi Whose title was the Bab through His declaration in 1260 AH or 1844 C.E. that He was the Promised One. The Baha'i Faith for us began in 1844 and we follow a calendar that began with the Declaration of the Bab on May 23, 1844.

The Bab claimed to be the Mahdi, he announced the coming of a Manifestation of God who was much greater than Himself "Him Whom God would make manifest" Whom we believe was Baha'u'llah.

Each Manifestation of God is the return of the previous Ones...

Your statement: "....he (Baha'u'llah) has written many verses in the exact same style as the beatitudes from the Bible." Actually I think you mean Abdul-Baha rather than Baha'u'llah as He wrote:

O ye beloved of God and His chosen ones!

Blessed are your ears, for they have heard the Call!

Blessed are your eyes, for they have beheld the signs of their Might Lord!

Blessed are your tongues, for they have uttered the praise of my Lord, the Supreme!

Blessed are your nostrils, for they have inhaled the odor of faithfulness from the people of guidance!

Blessed are your hearts, for they are attracted to the Beauty of El-ABHA!

Blessed are your breasts, for they are dilated by the knowledge of God! 271

Blessed are your souls, for they have partaken of the spirit of life from the fragrances of sanctity in the Paradise of El-ABHA!

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v2, p. 270
 

soulsurvivor

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Hello my good friend "injuntrouble"... I wanted to thank you for providing summaries of what you thought were some of the major claimants these days to the Imam Mahdi.. Your summary for Baha'i is in my view lacking and doesn't represent our views on the subject. Let me make an attempt here to correct some of your statements.

According to Shiah prophecy the return of the Twelfth Imam was the Mahdi and that prophecy as we Baha'is believe was fulfilled by Siyyid Ali Muhammad Shirazi Whose title was the Bab through His declaration in 1260 AH or 1844 C.E. that He was the Promised One. The Baha'i Faith for us began in 1844 and we follow a calendar that began with the Declaration of the Bab on May 23, 1844.

The Bab claimed to be the Mahdi, he announced the coming of a Manifestation of God who was much greater than Himself "Him Whom God would make manifest" Whom we believe was Baha'u'llah.

Each Manifestation of God is the return of the previous Ones...

Your statement: "....he (Baha'u'llah) has written many verses in the exact same style as the beatitudes from the Bible." Actually I think you mean Abdul-Baha rather than Baha'u'llah as He wrote:

O ye beloved of God and His chosen ones!

Blessed are your ears, for they have heard the Call!

Blessed are your eyes, for they have beheld the signs of their Might Lord!

Blessed are your tongues, for they have uttered the praise of my Lord, the Supreme!

Blessed are your nostrils, for they have inhaled the odor of faithfulness from the people of guidance!

Blessed are your hearts, for they are attracted to the Beauty of El-ABHA!

Blessed are your breasts, for they are dilated by the knowledge of God! 271

Blessed are your souls, for they have partaken of the spirit of life from the fragrances of sanctity in the Paradise of El-ABHA!

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v2, p. 270
Thanks for the clarification about those verses. Another Bahai actually sent them to me attempting to prove that Bahaullah could write just like Jesus (I am pretty sure he told me Bahuallah was the author). Perhaps Bahaullah has also written something similar?

If 'Bahaullah is greater than the Bab' does that mean Jesus is greater than the Mahdi according to Bahais?

BTW, I had a question: According to Islamic prophecy, the Mahdi will change the world to spread justice, fairness and equity everywhere. So do the Bahais (for that matter the Ahmadis also) claim that justice has already spread around the world or is this Mahdi just a slow worker?
 
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danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It takes time for the just teachings to be spread around the world and accepted, but the foundational work has been laid by the Bab in shaking the power base of the Persian divines most of whom at the time He considered the chief sources of oppression and tyranny.
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
@ injuntrouble
Peace and mercy of Allah be on you.
According to Ahmadiyya-Muslim understanding, the long awaited promised guide (on whom be peace) in this era has come as ardent devotee of Holy Prophet (peace and blessing of Allah be on him) of Islam to carry his message to all places at earth -- not with fighting or use of power but with prayers and moral reforms. Whenever someone comes from God, a process of struggle starts and his truth spreads, it has been the the divine way.

There are many news about Imam Mahdi and second coming of Jesus (peace be on them) but real one among one has some distinctions. The true news are well connected, they cannot be fulfilled by human efforts, these cannot be fullfilled without long changes in conditions of era, some of these are fulfilled at heavens where no human hand has any authority, the true signs are about the right-era, religios conditions, economic states of affairs, and much more......Ahmadiyya-Muslim believe that the whole true interconnected prophecies were fulfilled in the person and time of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian, India (on whom be peace).
For further related readings, plz see:
1= Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
2= Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
3= The Promised Messiah

At other level, according to Ahmadiyya-Muslim record, there are many many people worldwide, who, when prayed to Allah the Exalted, He clealry guided them that the above servant of Him is the real promised one with two titles.

These titles have meaning, Mahdi means guided by God i.e. the Imam Mahdi corrects many wrong things attributed to Islam. One example is erroneous understanding of Jihad, which has created the downfall of so many well established Muslim countries...[The true Jihad is: - Jihad in Islam ]

The Second coming of Jesus means he spreads peace and corrects the wrong idea of trinity.

Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) told two different appearances of Jesus (on whom be peace), when he (pbuh) saw him at Ascension (Mairaj) Jesus (a.s.) was told as red complexioned, curly haired man.......when he (pbuh) mentioned Jesus (a.s.) making circuits around Kaaba, and Djjal too making circuits there, this Jesus (a.s) is mentioned as man with browm complexions and straight hairs ----- Both mentions are in Bhukhari.

More than obviously Holy Prophet (pbuh) mentioned the Jesus among passed away Prophets was of Arab type......The second Jesus is the one who is defender of Islam (circuits around Kaaba) and annihilator of Djjal (the all negative forces who wants o destroy Islam).

What else can be more clear?

Currently, the true service for real Islam (not the one which is being used by his fifth Khalifah (may Allah be his Helper) is leading the Community in more than 200 countries with true teaching of Islam to make effort for the process of world peace.
 
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loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
I thought Maitreya is supposed to reintroduce 'true' Buddhism to humanity. I guess that is not going to save anybody?

Maitreya is very clearly foretold in Buddhism. All,religions decline but the followers remain in denial and maintain that their religion will never be superseded. Unfortunately this is wishful thinking as the reality is if these religions were still giving light today, the world would not be in such a mess.

Buddha spoke of the decline of His religion and of the future Buddha Who would renew it. Religion is relative to each age. No religion is relevant for every age. That is why Buddha told His followers, like Christ did, to look out for His Successor, Maitrya.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Thanks for the clarification about those verses. Another Bahai actually sent them to me attempting to prove that Bahaullah could write just like Jesus (I am pretty sure he told me Bahuallah was the author). Perhaps Bahaullah has also written something similar?

If 'Bahaullah is greater than the Bab' does that mean Jesus is greater than the Mahdi according to Bahais?

BTW, I had a question: According to Islamic prophecy, the Mahdi will change the world to spread justice, fairness and equity everywhere. So do the Bahais (for that matter the Ahmadis also) claim that justice has already spread around the world or is this Mahdi just a slow worker?


Actually Baha'u'llah did write some in His Tablet to the Christians. See the bottom of this link and you can read a large list of beatitudes written by the Pen of Baha'u'llah Himself. These are about half of them I quote here.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh Revealed After the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 9-17

Say: Blessed the slumberer who is awakened by My Breeze. Blessed the lifeless one who is quickened through My reviving breaths. Blessed the eye that is solaced by gazing at My beauty. Blessed the wayfarer who directeth his steps towards the Tabernacle of My glory and majesty. Blessed the distressed one who seeketh refuge beneath the shadow of My canopy. Blessed the sore athirst who hasteneth to the soft-flowing waters of My loving-kindness. Blessed the insatiate soul who casteth away his selfish desires for love of Me and taketh his place at the banquet table which I have sent down from the heaven of divine bounty for My chosen ones. Blessed the abased one who layeth fast hold on the cord of My glory; and the needy one who entereth beneath the shadow of the Tabernacle of My wealth. Blessed the ignorant one who seeketh the fountain of My knowledge; and the heedless one who cleaveth to the cord of My remembrance. Blessed the soul that hath been raised to life through My quickening breath and hath gained admittance into My heavenly Kingdom. Blessed the man whom the sweet savours of reunion with Me have stirred and caused to draw nigh unto the Dayspring of My Revelation. Blessed the ear that hath heard and the tongue that hath borne witness and the eye that hath seen and recognized the Lord Himself, in His great glory and majesty, invested with grandeur and dominion.

(Baha'u'llah) Tablet to the Christians.
 

Jedster

Flying through space
Maitreya is very clearly foretold in Buddhism. All,religions decline but the followers remain in denial and maintain that their religion will never be superseded. Unfortunately this is wishful thinking as the reality is if these religions were still giving light today, the world would not be in such a mess.

Buddha spoke of the decline of His religion and of the future Buddha Who would renew it. Religion is relative to each age. No religion is relevant for every age. That is why Buddha told His followers, like Christ did, to look out for His Successor, Maitrya.

Here is the Maitraya, according to some of my neighbours,
Join Buddha Maitreya for a one Day Dharshan - February 19th from Shambhala and March 12th from Maui
Dharma teaching of Buddha Maitreya, the reincarnation of Jesus the Christ

Dharshan with Christ
 

soulsurvivor

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Here is the Maitraya, according to some of my neighbours,
Join Buddha Maitreya for a one Day Dharshan - February 19th from Shambhala and March 12th from Maui
Dharma teaching of Buddha Maitreya, the reincarnation of Jesus the Christ

Dharshan with Christ
I believe this person is actually a former football player whose main business is selling crystals and pyramid like structures (you are supposed to meditate inside them).
 

soulsurvivor

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
It takes time for the just teachings to be spread around the world and accepted, but the foundational work has been laid by the Bab in shaking the power base of the Persian divines most of whom at the time He considered the chief sources of oppression and tyranny.
So the numerous hadiths that talk about the justice and equity that the Mahdi will bring to humanity and the world, really meant just in Iran? It doesn't look like there is that much justice in Persia even today! If we get justice around the world in a 100 years from now, it will be all because the Bab was here more than a century ago?

What about Bahaullah, what was he supposed to have done? One Bahai actually told me that all the scientific progress in the past 100 years, the internet, the computers were all because Bahaullah! If he was Jesus, he was supposed to divide humanity into goats and sheep and get rid of the goats (Matthew 25 31-46) - when is that going to happen?
 

soulsurvivor

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
@ injuntrouble
Peace and mercy of Allah be on you.
According to Ahmadiyya-Muslim understanding, the long awaited promised guide (on whom be peace) in this era has come as ardent devotee of Holy Prophet (peace and blessing of Allah be on him) of Islam to carry his message to all places at earth -- not with fighting or use of power but with prayers and moral reforms. Whenever someone comes from God, a process of struggle starts and his truth spreads, it has been the the divine way.

There are many news about Imam Mahdi and second coming of Jesus (peace be on them) but real one among one has some distinctions. The true news are well connected, they cannot be fulfilled by human efforts, these cannot be fullfilled without long changes in conditions of era, some of these are fulfilled at heavens where no human hand has any authority, the true signs are about the right-era, religios conditions, economic states of affairs, and much more......Ahmadiyya-Muslim believe that the whole true interconnected prophecies were fulfilled in the person and time of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian, India (on whom be peace).
For further related readings, plz see:
1= Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
2= Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
3= The Promised Messiah

At other level, according to Ahmadiyya-Muslim record, there are many many people worldwide, who, when prayed to Allah the Exalted, He clealry guided them that the above servant of Him is the real promised one with two titles.

These titles have meaning, Mahdi means guided by God i.e. the Imam Mahdi corrects many wrong things attributed to Islam. One example is erroneous understanding of Jihad, which has created the downfall of so many well established Muslim countries...[The true Jihad is: - Jihad in Islam ]

The Second coming of Jesus means he spreads peace and corrects the wrong idea of trinity.

Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) told two different appearances of Jesus (on whom be peace), when he (pbuh) saw him at Ascension (Mairaj) Jesus (a.s.) was told as red complexioned, curly haired man.......when he (pbuh) mentioned Jesus (a.s.) making circuits around Kaaba, and Djjal too making circuits there, this Jesus (a.s) is mentioned as man with browm complexions and straight hairs ----- Both mentions are in Bhukhari.

More than obviously Holy Prophet (pbuh) mentioned the Jesus among passed away Prophets was of Arab type......The second Jesus is the one who is defender of Islam (circuits around Kaaba) and annihilator of Djjal (the all negative forces who wants o destroy Islam).

What else can be more clear?

Currently, the true service for real Islam (not the one which is being used by his fifth Khalifah (may Allah be his Helper) is leading the Community in more than 200 countries with true teaching of Islam to make effort for the process of world peace.
I really like the Ahmadiyya concept of a two-in-one Messiah! Both the Mahdi and Jesus rolled into one! And Mr Ahmad will soon correct all the misconceptions like the Trinity.

But I don't get the Dajjal stuff - has Mirza Ahmad already killed the Dajjal as predicted while he was on earth? Or is it the standard explanation used by all religions - the prophecy is just metaphorical!

What about the multiple hadiths predicting that Jesus would stand behind the Mahdi while he led a prayer before the world?Hadith of Jesus Praying Behind Mahdi - Wikipedia - did this occur metaphorically? Or are all hadiths that don't fit into the Ahmadi world view, false?

On the whole the Bahai make a better case than the Ahmadis (although there are some pretty unpleasant stories about the Bahai candidate for Mahdi).
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
maitreya means friend.

strangely enough jesus said that there was no love in all the world greater than that of a friend; who would selflessly lay aside his selfish concerns for his beloved.


mencius said, "that friendship is two bodies being of one mind".


friendship = love
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I really like the Ahmadiyya concept of a two-in-one Messiah! Both the Mahdi and Jesus rolled into one! And Mr Ahmad will soon correct all the misconceptions like the Trinity.

But I don't get the Dajjal stuff - has Mirza Ahmad already killed the Dajjal as predicted while he was on earth? Or is it the standard explanation used by all religions - the prophecy is just metaphorical!

What about the multiple hadiths predicting that Jesus would stand behind the Mahdi while he led a prayer before the world?Hadith of Jesus Praying Behind Mahdi - Wikipedia - did this occur metaphorically? Or are all hadiths that don't fit into the Ahmadi world view, false?

On the whole the Bahai make a better case than the Ahmadis (although there are some pretty unpleasant stories about the Bahai candidate for Mahdi).
"Dajjal stuff"


Please
Regards
 

arthra

Baha'i
Thanks for the clarification about those verses. Another Bahai actually sent them to me attempting to prove that Bahaullah could write just like Jesus (I am pretty sure he told me Bahuallah was the author). Perhaps Bahaullah has also written something similar?

If 'Bahaullah is greater than the Bab' does that mean Jesus is greater than the Mahdi according to Bahais?

BTW, I had a question: According to Islamic prophecy, the Mahdi will change the world to spread justice, fairness and equity everywhere. So do the Bahais (for that matter the Ahmadis also) claim that justice has already spread around the world or is this Mahdi just a slow worker?

The Bab is the One who said "Him Whom God would make manifest" would be "greater"...

I swear by the holy Essence of God, were all in the Bayan to unite in helping Him Whom God shall make manifest in the days of His Revelation, not a single soul, nay, not a created thing would remain on earth that would not gain admittance into Paradise. Take good heed of yourselves, for the sum total of the religion of God is but to help Him, rather than to observe, in the time of His appearance, such deeds as are prescribed in the Bayan.

(The Bab, Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 85)


During the lifetime of Baha'u'llah and while He was a prisoner in Adrianople and latter He addressed the then rulers as a prisoner and urged them to set up a representative world parliament and an international court of arbitration this in 1867 to settle disputes and build the foundations for international peace. You can read the letters to the rulers yourself in a book entitled The Summons of the Lord of Hosts:

http://www.bahai.org/library/author...ns-lord-hosts/summons-lord-hosts.pdf?276d654f

Following these letters and tablets there were some furtive efforts to establish peace..then WWI occurred followed by the League of Nations... again failure and WWII started followed by the United Nations which has continued.. not perfect but a serious body... We do have an international court of arbitration. Abdul-Baha also sent letters to the Hague and addressed an international peace conference in Mohonk NY warning of an impending war.
 
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