Who is the true church?

[Merlin]

Well, I guess you answered my question! Won't she be surprised when she spots you in heaven?

I sincerely hope so, and in the fullness of time I would hope to meet you there. God bless.

 

[may]

There is really no church, why because it is written:



23For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you. 24"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. 25And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else.

Acts 17:23-25

so if you go to churches it would mean that you have not really know God, who is the god that made everything?

This is what the LORD says:
"Heaven is my throne,
and the earth is my footstool.
Where is the house you will build for me?
Where will my resting place be?
Isaiah 66:1

So, to really know the God whom you seek you have to know his Name, how important is the Name of God? Why do we have to know His Name?

31 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.
Joel 2:31

This will happen and who will be saved?

And everyone who calls
on the name of the LORD will be saved;
for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
there will be deliverance,
as the LORD has said,
among the survivors
whom the LORD calls.
Joel 2:32

Those who will call on the Name of God. Is it true that by calling on the Name of God, he will save us?

1 Save me, O God, by your name;
vindicate me by your might.
2 Hear my prayer, O God;
listen to the words of my mouth.

Psalm 54:1-2

May these passages help you to understand better, if you know God's Name, is there a need for you to go to churches? Whenever and wherever you are you can call on His Name.

Lastly, who are the new people of God?

This third I will bring into the fire;
I will refine them like silver
and test them like gold.
They will call on my name
and I will answer them;
I will say, 'They are my people,'
and they will say, 'The LORD is our God.' "
Zech 13:9

They are the new people of God, those who will call on His Name, will all the people will know His Name?

9 The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name.
Zech 14:9

This will happen in an appointed time.

Thank you for the opportunity to post my comments.

its good to see that you recognize that Gods name is very important so how come you never mentioned it
That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah you alone are the most high over all the earth..psalm 83;18

​

(Exodus 6:3) And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty, but as respects my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to them.


​

​

(Psalm 68:4) Sing YOU to God, make melody to his name; Raise up [a song] to the One riding through the desert plains As Jah, which is his name; and jubilate before him;​

​

(Isaiah 42:8) "I am Jehovah. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory, neither my praise to graven images.​

​

(Isaiah 54:5) "For your Grand Maker is your husbandly owner, Jehovah of armies being his name; and the Holy One of Israel is your Repurchaser. The God of the whole earth he will be called

 

[Bennettresearch]

No problem, my friend.
Sorry to hear that... it shouldn't be hard... it is an official teaching of the Catechism of the Catholic Church (#841).

Hi Scott,

Well you certainly have a fair egalitarian viewpoint but this reference to a catechism is puzzling. I am not familiar with because I am not catholic. I am of the understanding that the official position of the Catholic Church is that no one finds salvation outside of it. How would you resolve this issue?

 

[Bennettresearch]

I think the first comment is that you cannot prove a point about Jesus (to the general world) by quoting new Testament, any more than you would accept proof about Islam by my quoting the Koran.

Secondly, if the Koran teachings give people a righteous and devout life, bringing them closer to God (the same God that LDS pray to), do you really believe God would care that they have got to him directly rather than via Jesus.

Hi Merlin,

The point comes down to whether anyone, this means everyone, would reject their indoctrination after being shown the greater light of truth and finding the one true religion in God. So let's say for the sake of argument that there was another true representation that came along that would supercede all of the religions in the world. Would this religion offer salvation to those who have not followed it? It probably would, otherwise no one would make it. THis is why someone like me, who is very much a follower of Jesus, would not deny a righteous person access even though they followed another path.

 

[Merlin]

Hi Merlin,

The point comes down to whether anyone, this means everyone, would reject their indoctrination after being shown the greater light of truth and finding the one true religion in God. So let's say for the sake of argument that there was another true representation that came along that would supercede all of the religions in the world. Would this religion offer salvation to those who have not followed it? It probably would, otherwise no one would make it. THis is why someone like me, who is very much a follower of Jesus, would not deny a righteous person access even though they followed another path.

that is a fair point. Of course it is predicated on the absolute unquestionable belief that your own particular faith is the true one.

If it might not be (just might ), then using your powers of persuasion to move somebody from their own faith to yours, could be quite a wicked thing to do.

Remember, everybody on this forum that has a faith believes with all of their heart and soul that they have the true religion. As there is a fair selection of faiths represented in this forum, it follows that the majority of us are wrong. One group is right and the rest are wrong.

The thing that keeps us all sane, is we all know that it is our version isn't it? It is very sad and all the rest.

 

[gtrsgrls]

I think the reason that there's not just one church is because some people interpret the Bible differently than others.For instance,some people believe that women shouldn't be preachers(Baptists preferebly) and others believe that they should.(mainly Methodists).Is either one of these opinions wrong?I don't think so because it is based on interpretation.I think any church that doesn't deliberatly violate the Bible can be called a true church.Mormons and Jahova's witnesses however actually changed the Bible to fit them.Jahova's witnesses don't believe God would send people to hell,the founder started Jahova's witnesses for this reason.Mormons just kinda changed the Bible through "dreams" that this dude had.I think any church can be called a true church as long is it isn't deliberatly going against the Bible.

 

[michel]

I think the reason that there's not just one church is because some people interpret the Bible differently than others.For instance,some people believe that women shouldn't be preachers(Baptists preferebly) and others believe that they should.(mainly Methodists).Is either one of these opinions wrong?I don't think so because it is based on interpretation.I think any church that doesn't deliberatly violate the Bible can be called a true church.Mormons and Jahova's witnesses however actually changed the Bible to fit them.Jahova's witnesses don't believe God would send people to hell,the founder started Jahova's witnesses for this reason.Mormons just kinda changed the Bible through "dreams" that this dude had.I think any church can be called a true church as long is it isn't deliberatly going against the Bible.

I think you are possibly limiting the idea of the 'many churches' to those in the U.S; look around the world...................

I dare say the idea that 'missionaries' were sent out to all corners of the earth at various times, and introduced a 'modified' faith (By sheer mistake, or because the faith was taught by word of mouth, through generations).

I tend to think that had communication throughout the world (such as the internet) been available in Christ's time, a much greater proportion of the world would be Christian.

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

I tend to think that had communication throughout the world (such as the internet) been available in Christ's time, a much greater proportion of the world would be Christian.

You can thank Roman influence for the current popularity of Christianity in the Western World. Missionaries no doubt had some effect as well, but Western Civilization as we know it today is vastly influenced by Rome. Had Rome adopted Islam instead of Christianity, we would not be typing like this right now. As a matter of fact, isn't this script type called Times New Roman? I could be mistaken there.

B.

 

[greatcalgarian]

You can thank Roman influence for the current popularity of Christianity in the Western World. Missionaries no doubt had some effect as well, but Western Civilization as we know it today is vastly influenced by Rome. Had Rome adopted Islam instead of Christianity, we would not be typing like this right now. As a matter of fact, isn't this script type called Times New Roman? I could be mistaken there.

B.

Rome adopted Christianity prior to the birth of Islam. That is why we have the Crusade.

 

[napen]

its good to see that you recognize that Gods name is very important so how come you never mentioned it
That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah you alone are the most high over all the earth..psalm 83;18

(Exodus 6:3) And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty, but as respects my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to them.




​

(Psalm 68:4) Sing YOU to God, make melody to his name; Raise up [a song] to the One riding through the desert plains As Jah, which is his name; and jubilate before him;​

(Isaiah 42:8) "I am Jehovah. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory, neither my praise to graven images.​

(Isaiah 54:5) "For your Grand Maker is your husbandly owner, Jehovah of armies being his name; and the Holy One of Israel is your Repurchaser. The God of the whole earth he will be called

To answer you, it simply because the time for the revelation of God's name is for an appointed time, for all men to know... the prophecies are already cited and to add:

41 "As for the foreigner who does not belong to your people Israel but has come from a distant land because of your name- 42 for men will hear of your great name and your mighty hand and your outstretched arm—when he comes and prays toward this temple, 43 then hear from heaven, your dwelling place, and do whatever the foreigner asks of you, so that all the peoples of the earth may know your name and fear you, as do your own people Israel, and may know that this house I have built bears your Name.
I Kings 8:41-43 NIV

This is the "foreigner" who is not Jew, he will be the man to reveal the true Name of God, and when the time comes, all men will know the Name of God when he delivers the revelation in an appointed time, since all of us still beleive in our churches and religions, we don't even mind what the "forerigner" has been saying since we are not yet affected by the storms, tsunamis, fires, environmental degradation, and other disasters, especially wars, but time will come it will happen all over the world... so you say you will call on your god, what happens if you are not answered?

check out the site www.thename.ph if you want to know who the "foreigner" is. and also the country where the Name of God will be proclaimed is given, check it out... it may help you.

thank you...

 

[may]

To answer you, it simply because the time for the revelation of God's name is for an appointed time, for all men to know... the prophecies are already cited and to add:

41 "As for the foreigner who does not belong to your people Israel but has come from a distant land because of your name- 42 for men will hear of your great name and your mighty hand and your outstretched arm—when he comes and prays toward this temple, 43 then hear from heaven, your dwelling place, and do whatever the foreigner asks of you, so that all the peoples of the earth may know your name and fear you, as do your own people Israel, and may know that this house I have built bears your Name.
I Kings 8:41-43 NIV

This is the "foreigner" who is not Jew, he will be the man to reveal the true Name of God, and when the time comes, all men will know the Name of God when he delivers the revelation in an appointed time, since all of us still beleive in our churches and religions, we don't even mind what the "forerigner" has been saying since we are not yet affected by the storms, tsunamis, fires, environmental degradation, and other disasters, especially wars, but time will come it will happen all over the world... so you say you will call on your god, what happens if you are not answered?

check out the site www.thename.ph if you want to know who the "foreigner" is. and also the country where the Name of God will be proclaimed is given, check it out... it may help you.

thank you...[/QUOTEi already know Gods name the bible tells me psalm 83;18
That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah.....as for the foreigner

and clothe yourselves with the new [personality], which through accurate knowledge is being made new according to the image of the One who created it, where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, foreigner, Scyth´i·an, slave, freeman, but Christ is all things and in all ...colossians 3;10-11

 

[Merlin]

I already know Gods name the bible tells me psalm 83;18
That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah.....as for the foreigner

I thought Jehovah was a made up name?

From Yahweh

the God of the Israelites, his name being revealed to Moses as four Hebrew CONSONANTS (YHWH) CALLED THE TETRAGRAMMATON. AFTER THE EXILE (6TH CENTURY BC), and especially from the 3rd century BC on, Jews ceased to use the name Yahweh for two reasons. As Judaism became a universal religion through its proselytizing in the Greco-Roman world, the more common noun elohim, meaning "god," tended to replace Yahweh to demonstrate the universal sovereignty of Israel's God over all others. At the same time, the divine name was increasingly regarded as too sacred to be uttered; it was thus replaced vocally in the synagogue ritual by the Hebrew word Adonai ("My Lord"), which was translated as Kyrios ("Lord") in the Septuagint, the Greek version of the Old Testament.

The Masoretes, who from about the 6th to the 10th century worked to reproduce the original text of the Hebrew Bible, replaced the vowels of the name YHWH with the vowel signs of the Hebrew words Adonai ("Lord", editor) or Elohim ("God", editor). Thus, the artificial name Jehovah (YeHoWaH) (emphasis ours, ed.) came into being.

Although Christian scholars after the Renaissance and Reformation periods used the term Jehovah for YHWH, in the 19th and 20th centuries biblical scholars again began to use the form Yahweh. Early Christian writers, such as Clement of Alexandria in the 2nd century, had used a form like Yahweh, and this pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton was never really lost. Other Greek transcriptions also indicated that YHWH should be pronounced Yahweh. E Britanica

 

[Aqualung]

Yes, I always thought it was amusing that a JW will talk about how they are the only one who uses God's personal name, but it's just a name they made up and is really no more valid than LORD is.

 

[Quiddity]

Hi Scott,

Well you certainly have a fair egalitarian viewpoint but this reference to a catechism is puzzling. I am not familiar with because I am not catholic. I am of the understanding that the official position of the Catholic Church is that no one finds salvation outside of it. How would you resolve this issue?

Just found this one Bennett. To put it simply, it is true to say that there is no salvation outside the Church. But Who encompasses the Church is not entirely known. From a tangible and human faculty perspective I can say it's the Catholic Church. But I can also say that there are some people who are Catholic but just dont know they are. That help?

~Victor

 

[Scott1]

Just found this one Bennett.

Yep... me too... sorry.

This should help: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2081

 

[Katzpur]

Mormons and Jahova's witnesses however actually changed the Bible to fit them.Jahova's witnesses don't believe God would send people to hell,the founder started Jahova's witnesses for this reason.Mormons just kinda changed the Bible through "dreams" that this dude had.I think any church can be called a true church as long is it isn't deliberatly going against the Bible.

gtrsgrls,

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm afraid you're not much of an authority of Mormonism. For your information, Mormons didn't "just kinda change the Bible through dreams this dude had." Mormons use the King James Version of the Bible, just like a great many other Christians. You really do need to watch what you're posting, because there are people on this forum who don't like to see inaccurate information posted about their beliefs. You might do well to stick to explaining your own beliefs, since you obviously don't know much about mine.

Kathryn

 

[napen]

I thought Jehovah was a made up name?

From Yahweh

the God of the Israelites, his name being revealed to Moses as four Hebrew CONSONANTS (YHWH) CALLED THE TETRAGRAMMATON. AFTER THE EXILE (6TH CENTURY BC), and especially from the 3rd century BC on, Jews ceased to use the name Yahweh for two reasons. As Judaism became a universal religion through its proselytizing in the Greco-Roman world, the more common noun elohim, meaning "god," tended to replace Yahweh to demonstrate the universal sovereignty of Israel's God over all others. At the same time, the divine name was increasingly regarded as too sacred to be uttered; it was thus replaced vocally in the synagogue ritual by the Hebrew word Adonai ("My Lord"), which was translated as Kyrios ("Lord") in the Septuagint, the Greek version of the Old Testament.

The Masoretes, who from about the 6th to the 10th century worked to reproduce the original text of the Hebrew Bible, replaced the vowels of the name YHWH with the vowel signs of the Hebrew words Adonai ("Lord", editor) or Elohim ("God", editor). Thus, the artificial name Jehovah (YeHoWaH) (emphasis ours, ed.) came into being.

Although Christian scholars after the Renaissance and Reformation periods used the term Jehovah for YHWH, in the 19th and 20th centuries biblical scholars again began to use the form Yahweh. Early Christian writers, such as Clement of Alexandria in the 2nd century, had used a form like Yahweh, and this pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton was never really lost. Other Greek transcriptions also indicated that YHWH should be pronounced Yahweh. E Britanica

But there is this something that hinders the Jews from mentioning the Name of God, read in...

24 Then Jeremiah said to all the people, including the women, "Hear the word of the LORD, all you people of Judah in Egypt. 25 This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: You and your wives have shown by your actions what you promised when you said, 'We will certainly carry out the vows we made to burn incense and pour out drink offerings to the Queen of Heaven.'
"Go ahead then, do what you promised! Keep your vows! 26 But hear the word of the LORD, all Jews living in Egypt: 'I swear by my great name,' says the LORD, 'that no one from Judah living anywhere in Egypt will ever again invoke my name or swear, "As surely as the Sovereign LORD lives."
Jeremiah 44:24-26 (New International Version)

That is why the prophecy in II Samuel 7:12-17, that the name of god be seen by the people and Solomon (I Chron 9:9-13) and Jesus (I Kings 11:13 and Isaiah 7:13-150 to fulfill the prophecy, were sent to show the Name of God to their people without speaking the Name, by building the house with the Name of God. But unfortunately for the people and the rest of the wold they all failed, that is why the Jews still await for the (next) Messiah the man to fulfill the prophecies...

 

[Merlin]

gtrsgrls,

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm afraid you're not much of an authority of Mormonism. For your information, Mormons didn't "just kinda change the Bible through dreams this dude had." Mormons use the King James Version of the Bible, just like a great many other Christians. You really do need to watch what you're posting, because there are people on this forum who don't like to see inaccurate information posted about their beliefs. You might do well to stick to explaining your own beliefs, since you obviously don't know much about mine.

Kathryn

Well said. He or she does seem to have some definite beliefs based on very little.

Can I ask you a different question? Where does the name Mormon come from. It does not seem to be related to your long official name.

 

[michel]

gtrsgrls,

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm afraid you're not much of an authority of Mormonism. For your information, Mormons didn't "just kinda change the Bible through dreams this dude had." Mormons use the King James Version of the Bible, just like a great many other Christians. You really do need to watch what you're posting, because there are people on this forum who don't like to see inaccurate information posted about their beliefs. You might do well to stick to explaining your own beliefs, since you obviously don't know much about mine.

Kathryn

Good post Kathryn; it seems a shame that that has to be put in words - but I think it amply describes how we should all be tollerant of each other's beliefs. To my mind, that is one of the basic needs on this forum.

 

[may]

Yes, I always thought it was amusing that a JW will talk about how they are the only one who uses God's personal name, but it's just a name they made up and is really no more valid than LORD is.

i can see you have been listening to critics, rather than finding out why we use Jehovah , but that is your choice of coarse,