Substance. As far as I'm aware matter can't be created or destroyed. And until you define spirit, I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Who made God?
- Thread starter Pegg
- Start date
Substance. As far as I'm aware matter can't be created or destroyed. And until you define spirit, I have no idea what you're talking about.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Why do you say that?
CaptainBritain
Active Member
Its called a dodge, stay on point until he or she resorts to pixie dust and magic, its what it all boils down to in the end,
Yes, I think it does. Change is a function of time, so anything that is subject to change (i.e. anything that is not unchanging) is subject to time.
But maybe this is just an issue of semantics. When I say "change", I mean "difference in a thing between two points in time". Do you mean something else? Are you using some definition of "change" that doesn't involve time? If so, what is it?
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
to be honest i'm quite lost as to where this thread is headed... i'd have to read back
/...im not sure i can be bothered
I dont even know what is being argued anymore.:faint:
Thief
Rogue Theologian
And I'm waiting for you to make up your mind.
Substance first?
So the creation was self starting?
And an object at rest tends to do what?
'Something' had to start all of this.
Substance first?
CaptainBritain
Active Member
Not everything about the universe is known.
That something had to start all this is not known, the not known is usually where God rests, and he will be able to rest there for some time I think, good old god of the gaps.
Gods and magic were simplistic answers invented by our ignorant primative ancestors to explain that which they couldnt yet fathom.
As yet whenever our species has gained any knowledge a natural explanation has always replaced the supernatural answer given by our ignorant primative ancestors for any given phenomina, the super natural so far is on nil points for accuracy on anything we have ever been able to verify.
Who knows, this Gap may prove to be the supernaturals lucky day.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
I wasn't using magic.
'Science' would have you belief an object at rest will remain at rest...
until a force is applied.
That force is called what?
I call it God....Creator...Almighty....
CaptainBritain
Active Member
Unless the object has internal forces to work against.
You can jump to any conclusion you wish, but there is slim evidence to form any conclusion with.
More data needed.
IIRC, here's what led us to this point:to be honest i'm quite lost as to where this thread is headed... i'd have to read back
/...im not sure i can be bothered
- as part of your argument that God doesn't need a creator or a cause, you argued that God is "not subject to time".
- in response, a few people pointed out that a God who is "not subject to time" would be unchanging and static, because change requires time. IOW, a God who exists outside of time could never actually do anything within time.
- in response to this, you argued (I think) that God isn't subject to time, but can still change (and do things) anyhow.
- I asked you how this could be the case, since I see this claim as inherently contradictory.
But you say you don't want to debate any more; does this mean that you're no longer interested in defending your claim that God is not subject to time?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
No jump at all.
It's one or the other....substance first....or spirit first.
I don't see substance as self starting.
It has no 'self'.
And the law of motion referring to an object at rest....
would have to be incorrect....for the universe (one word) to be 'self' starting.
Spirit is not so 'tangible'....literally.
Exactly! Something, not someone.
Thats a false Dichotomy. I'm not sure that you've eliminated all other options. And we haven't even determined that spirit is even a valid option, when you say spirit I have no idea what you're talking about until you define what you mean by spirit.
And again, matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed, so why do you keep claiming that it can?
What do you mean by "spirit"?
Does spirit have substance? If so, then why isn't it subject to the "problems" above? If not, then how can it be the impetus for substance?
According to Psalms 90v2; 41v13; 106v48 God is from everlasting.
Meaning God always existed not devise a way of bringing himself into existence.
What does "always" mean outside of time?
Is time an invention, or did time as we know it always exist ?
For each second ahead we can also think of counting endlessly one second back.
Seems as if eternity is in our hearts and minds.